Getting an upgraded charging at apartment

[Verva12]

Hello!

I have been cleared to charge by my apartment company in my garage. I tested with a friends model 3 and get 4mph with standard outlet.

The apartment company stated that I could get an upgraded outlet from an approved electrician. I have put some calls into them.

My garage is detached and the electrical panel on the edge of the 5 garages is pictured here. My garage is in the middle.

I am a little worried about the potential cost since it’s considered a commercial project. Does anyone have any experience with potential cost? I will find out more once I talk to them but hoping to get a rough estimate. I don’t know if the picture of the box will help determine how much work is needed.

thanks.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Can you arrange a swap with the person closest to the panel? That panel 'seems' to have enough capacity, not knowing what those four 20 amp circuits are going to. It seems like a lot of circuits for a five bay garagel

Is there more than one outlet on the circuit feeding the outlet you are plugging into? If not, you can upgrade to a 6-15 or 6-20 outlet pretty easily, with a new breaker and a new outlet using the same wiring.

If nothing else, you might already have a 20 amp outlet(or one could be swapped in) that would give you at least another 1-2 miles per hour, If one of the holes in your outlet is a T shape, its a 120V/20 amp outlet. It would be trivial to swap one in. You'd also have to pay $35 to tesla for an appropriate plug(5-20) for the UMC

 

[qdeathstar]

Does the garage have an attic access? How far away is is the panel from your garage in feet? I think you could get away with a 30 amp 240v circuit.

 

[Verva12]

Does the garage have an attic access? How far away is is the panel from your garage in feet? I think you could get away with a 30 amp 240v circuit.

The attic is basically unfinished. Just a tall ceiling. It’s on the back of the garage 1 and I’m 3rd garage. So it is two garage widths away. Roughly 20 feet.

 

[Verva12]

Can you arrange a swap with the person closest to the panel? That panel 'seems' to have enough capacity, not knowing what those four 20 amp circuits are going to. It seems like a lot of circuits for a five bay garagel

Is there more than one outlet on the circuit feeding the outlet you are plugging into? If not, you can upgrade to a 6-15 or 6-20 outlet pretty easily, with a new breaker and a new outlet using the same wiring.

If nothing else, you might already have a 20 amp outlet(or one could be swapped in) that would give you at least another 1-2 miles per hour, If one of the holes in your outlet is a T shape, its a 120V/20 amp outlet. It would be trivial to swap one in. You'd also have to pay $35 to tesla for an appropriate plug(5-20) for the UMC

Yeah I’m not 100% what everything goes to. Maybe when the electrician comes he might know. I didn’t look at any other garage units to see if they have similar panels.

There is only one outlet in my garage. I’m not sure if each breaker is to each garage or anything like that. I don’t know if checking the wires would be helpful either. They look pretty thick going to the socket. The sockets are not the t type ones. I had someone with a model 3 come and test it and it said on the screen 12/12 amps while charging.

I can always ask about switching garages too. That’s a good idea. These all are helpful when the person comes out I can mention these to them. Thanks a lot!

I added a pic of the current socket as well that I tested

 

[eprosenx]

Yeah I’m not 100% what everything goes to. Maybe when the electrician comes he might know. I didn’t look at any other garage units to see if they have similar panels.

There is only one outlet in my garage. I’m not sure if each breaker is to each garage or anything like that. I don’t know if checking the wires would be helpful either. They look pretty thick going to the socket. The sockets are not the t type ones. I had someone with a model 3 come and test it and it said on the screen 12/12 amps while charging.

I can always ask about switching garages too. That’s a good idea. These all are helpful when the person comes out I can mention these to them. Thanks a lot!

I added a pic of the current socket as well that I tested

Ooh, I think you are going to be in luck. You absolutely have some options and they may not be very expensive. This is "barely commercial" since it basically uses all residential wiring techniques.

So first the obvious: There is TONS of physical space available in that panel for more breakers. The down side though is that it only has a 40a 240v feed which is very limiting. It has four 20a 120v circuits out of it and so that worst case could take up the full 40a of capacity,

It would appear that all the existing wiring is NM-B (Romex) and with the unfinished garage it should be trivial to run new wire.

It appears to me that the panel is a main service panel direct from the utility meter since it only has three wires coming into it (combined neutral/ground). The wire coming in is likely aluminum and actually, the more I look at it, the wire is probably 4awg (please check/verify this!) which at the 75c rating would be good for a 60a electrical service. You may be able to just swap the main breaker over to a 60a breaker and magically get another 20a of 240v service capacity.

And actually, it looks like there is conduit back from this panel to presumably the meter base. It may be possible to easily re-conductor that (likely a short distance?) to upgrade the service to perhaps 100a (swapping from what I presume are aluminum conductors to copper conductors would allow re-using the same conduit. Switching out that wire is likely trivial, though it could require coordination with the power company to shut off (though likely just pulling the meter base which the electrician may be able to do on their own).

We need to see the detailed specs on that panel that is installed there to understand its maximum ratings, etc... I suspect you could just have this popped in:

GE Q-Line 60 Amp 2 in. Double-Pole Circuit Breaker-THQL2160 - The Home Depot

Worst case, that whole panel could be replaced pretty inexpensively. A new 100a main panel can be had for $100 (not including breakers).

Square D Homeline 100 Amp 20-Space 40-Circuit Outdoor Main Breaker Plug-On Neutral Load Center-HOM2040M100PRB - The Home Depot

Note that to upsize the service the main ground wire would need to be be checked to make sure it is of sufficient size, but I think it would be fine for up to a 100a service as is I am guessing.

If you could get a 30a 240v circuit (install a NEMA 14-30 receptacle) using 10-3 romex that would give you a 24a charge rate which should be plenty for most folks needs. (you could possibly also do a 14-50 on a 40a or 50a circuit, but that just gives you a 32a rate with the UMC Gen 2 - the added cost may not be worth it)

So yeah, I might shoot for upgrading that main breaker to 60a, adding a 30a breaker for your receptacle, running 10-3 NM-B cable, and putting in a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. Buy the Tesla adapter for $35 and call it a day!!!

 

[timk225]

Any electrician should know to do this, but when he's in there working on your panel, make sure he takes a minute to tighten down all the screws that are clamping wires in place. They can work loose over time, especially with aluminum wire. You don't want something to start sparking right after you were in there for your charging plug, the apartment manager might not like that.

How far is the power meter from this breaker panel? If it isn't far, you could put in a new main feed wire and do some serious upgrades.

 

[qdeathstar]

I don’t think you need to do serious upgrades or mess with the feeders to the power, A thirty amp charger would be fine for daily charging and really boost your charging speed. Based on what you have told me i would expect a circuit to cost 400-600 dollars inclusive of the permit. There is no need to upgrade the panel with that size circuit.

 

[Verva12]

Ooh, I think you are going to be in luck. You absolutely have some options and they may not be very expensive. This is "barely commercial" since it basically uses all residential wiring techniques.

So first the obvious: There is TONS of physical space available in that panel for more breakers. The down side though is that it only has a 40a 240v feed which is very limiting. It has four 20a 120v circuits out of it and so that worst case could take up the full 40a of capacity,

It would appear that all the existing wiring is NM-B (Romex) and with the unfinished garage it should be trivial to run new wire.

It appears to me that the panel is a main service panel direct from the utility meter since it only has three wires coming into it (combined neutral/ground). The wire coming in is likely aluminum and actually, the more I look at it, the wire is probably 4awg (please check/verify this!) which at the 75c rating would be good for a 60a electrical service. You may be able to just swap the main breaker over to a 60a breaker and magically get another 20a of 240v service capacity.

And actually, it looks like there is conduit back from this panel to presumably the meter base. It may be possible to easily re-conductor that (likely a short distance?) to upgrade the service to perhaps 100a (swapping from what I presume are aluminum conductors to copper conductors would allow re-using the same conduit. Switching out that wire is likely trivial, though it could require coordination with the power company to shut off (though likely just pulling the meter base which the electrician may be able to do on their own).

We need to see the detailed specs on that panel that is installed there to understand its maximum ratings, etc... I suspect you could just have this popped in:

GE Q-Line 60 Amp 2 in. Double-Pole Circuit Breaker-THQL2160 - The Home Depot

Worst case, that whole panel could be replaced pretty inexpensively. A new 100a main panel can be had for $100 (not including breakers).

Square D Homeline 100 Amp 20-Space 40-Circuit Outdoor Main Breaker Plug-On Neutral Load Center-HOM2040M100PRB - The Home Depot

Note that to upsize the service the main ground wire would need to be be checked to make sure it is of sufficient size, but I think it would be fine for up to a 100a service as is I am guessing.

If you could get a 30a 240v circuit (install a NEMA 14-30 receptacle) using 10-3 romex that would give you a 24a charge rate which should be plenty for most folks needs. (you could possibly also do a 14-50 on a 40a or 50a circuit, but that just gives you a 32a rate with the UMC Gen 2 - the added cost may not be worth it)

So yeah, I might shoot for upgrading that main breaker to 60a, adding a 30a breaker for your receptacle, running 10-3 NM-B cable, and putting in a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. Buy the Tesla adapter for $35 and call it a day!!!

Thanks! That seems like my best option. I will try to get a better picture but it just snowed quite a bit. I will try to learn this so when I talk to the electrician I can explain. And hopefully they don’t try to charge too much since it is commercial. 20a would be fine with me but if I can do 30 that would be even better. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Verva12]

I don’t think you need to do serious upgrades or mess with the feeders to the power, A thirty amp charger would be fine for daily charging and really boost your charging speed. Based on what you have told me i would expect a circuit to cost 400-600 dollars inclusive of the permit. There is no need to upgrade the panel with that size circuit.

Thanks! I could do that price range!

 

[Verva12]

Any electrician should know to do this, but when he's in there working on your panel, make sure he takes a minute to tighten down all the screws that are clamping wires in place. They can work loose over time, especially with aluminum wire. You don't want something to start sparking right after you were in there for your charging plug, the apartment manager might not like that.

How far is the power meter from this breaker panel? If it isn't far, you could put in a new main feed wire and do some serious upgrades.

I will mention the screws. I’m not too sure what the power meter looks like. I can snoop around. I know right below the box on the ground there is another thing that looks like a panel built in the ground. I’m guess right now it’s covered in snow. Or would it be a green box above ground just standing there?

 

[eprosenx]

I will mention the screws. I’m not too sure what the power meter looks like. I can snoop around. I know right below the box on the ground there is another thing that looks like a panel built in the ground. I’m guess right now it’s covered in snow. Or would it be a green box above ground just standing there?

More pictures would be good. If you have underground electrical service then I would expect to find a green transformer box on the ground that then feeds the electrical meter (likely on the side of the building near that panel).

 

[DaveRZ]

Make sure you calculate how much charging speed you need/want. That way you're talking to the electrician about how much power you actually need. No point in upgrading a ton of stuff for extra power that you won't benefit from, especially at an apartment.

1) How many miles do you drive on a typical workday? And how many hours is the car idle in the evenings?
2) On a weekend?
3) Do you have on/off peak electrical rates that you want to stick to? (e.g., an 8 hour "charging window" at night)?
3) How close are you to a supercharger or public fast charger for those unexpected situations?

So for example if you only drive 30 miles a day typically, then your standard outlet will give you around 35-40 miles of charge every 10 hours. Upgrade to a 20 amp outlet, and you'll get around 50-70 miles in 10 hours. Upgrade to 240v and everything doubles compared to the 120v numbers.

Since you're in Colorado and I assume it gets cold where you are, you'll want to add another, say, 30% to your power estimate to help with battery warming, preconditioning the car in the morning, etc...

 

[kkillebrew]

A 240v circuit is going to use half the available space in your box, leaving room for two additional 120v circuits, or one more 240v. So long as that presents no problems you are good for a 30 amp 14-30 plug. Looks like you could/should also change that 40 amp main to a 60 based on the he incoming wire size.

I guess the bigger question here is do your neighbors mind paying for you to charge?

 

[Verva12]

A 240v circuit is going to use half the available space in your box, leaving room for two additional 120v circuits, or one more 240v. So long as that presents no problems you are good for a 30 amp 14-30 plug. Looks like you could/should also change that 40 amp main to a 60 based on the he incoming wire size.

I guess the bigger question here is do your neighbors mind paying for you to charge?

I don’t think any of them do anything inside the garages ever. They are standalone with poor lighting. I’ve never seen anyone doing anything besides parking and leaving their car. I think the apartment company makes it hard to use the electricity based off where they place the socket. It’s all communal and I might get a meter. The apt said 20$ flat rate per month charging

 

[Sophias_dad]

It wouldn't be that hard to do the math as to whether $20 a month is a good deal or not, You just need a $/kwh and how many miles you drive a month...

 

[eprosenx]

A 240v circuit is going to use half the available space in your box, leaving room for two additional 120v circuits, or one more 240v. So long as that presents no problems you are good for a 30 amp 14-30 plug. Looks like you could/should also change that 40 amp main to a 60 based on the he incoming wire size.

I guess the bigger question here is do your neighbors mind paying for you to charge?

Uhh? That picture of the panel shows 12 breaker positions, each that can take "tandem" style breakers (actually since it is GE they can take half width breakers). So that gives you 24 potential breakers. Right now four are in use, so even with a 240v breaker that takes two positions that would still allow for 18 more breakers to be added. ;-)

 

[eprosenx]

I guess the bigger question here is do your neighbors mind paying for you to charge?

Well, I suspect that meter is paid for by the property management and so you are leeching off of them. ;-) Them charging an extra $20 for EV charging seems extremely reasonable.

 

[kkillebrew]

Uhh? That picture of the panel shows 12 breaker positions, each that can take "tandem" style breakers (actually since it is GE they can take half width breakers). So that gives you 24 potential breakers. Right now four are in use, so even with a 240v breaker that takes two positions that would still allow for 18 more breakers to be added. ;-)

Oops - right you are - tandem and halfwidth - my bad

 

[brkaus]

$20 would be a fantastic deal even if one only uses $10 in electricity. Just for convenience.