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GM Chevy Volt

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You are experiencing the "hybrid experience." Take out that gas engine and all the other bits associated with it, retune the suspension and whatnot and then let me know how the car drives. I bet you it'll drive differently. So it is a hybrid experience, electric bias.



No, I haven't driven a Volt, but I have driven an ELR. See above for the hybrid experience. GM has admitted it is a hybrid. Please wake up.

Pure BEV Dogma


Cool story. I drive a Volt everyday and it's an electric experience. 53 miles of it.


Every time I come in this thread there's always some nerds arguing about what the Volt "really" is lol


Never any cool things posted except my posts. More cool posts and less bickering please.
 
Well, with 99.1+% of the miles EV, it is pretty heavily skewed in the direction of "electric bias". If I removed the ICE, I wouldn't see much difference. I'd just be limiting my range to something like a Leaf. Alternatively, if I removed the electric motors, the car wouldn't work.

It really depends on ones daily driving needs. The Gen 2 Volt seems to be handling our daily driving needs completely electric. It still has 6 of the original 8 gallons of gas that came with the car new last October. If I had purchased a Gen 1 Volt, with its lower AER, we definitely would have gone through a few tanks by now.

You're missing my point. Without the ICE and the associated bits, the weight distribution of the vehicle is changed. HP to weight is changed. Interior space is changed.

EV has its advantages. Hybrid has its advantages. You are enjoying the hybrid experience when the heater is provided by the ICE. You are enjoying the hybrid experience when you don't have "range anxiety."
 
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You're missing my point. Without the ICE and the associated bits, the weight distribution of the vehicle is changed. HP to weight is changed. Interior space is changed.

EV has its advantages. Hybrid has its advantages. You are enjoying the hybrid experience when the heater is provided by the ICE. You are enjoying the hybrid experience when you don't have "range anxiety."
That is a very narrow view of what the definition of your "experience" is defined. To me that's very fundamentalists way of casting greater proportion on how an item is used. When the "hybrid experience" as defined as when the ICE heater (used physically) or range anxiety extinguisher is actually (used psychologically) utilized less than 10% of the time, I find it difficult to call that a defining experience for Volt. Hauling ICE hardware that are useless most of the time also doesn't make it a electric biased hybrid experience IMHO.
Just for the sake of hypothetical psychological exercise, supposedly I find viewing goldfishes in aquarium empowers me to drive. I put a fixed fish tank into a model X and tap the power to reveal the tank when I hit the go paddle. Does that make the Model X somehow a "hybrid experience" with the weight of those fish tank that I am hauling change the handling dynamic too? (Okay, that's not directly comparable :p you can substitute some insanely heavy hamster wheel to somehow power the Model X under a very specific set of circumstances that happens around 1% of total driving time instead).
 
That is a very narrow view of what the definition of your "experience" is defined. To me that's very fundamentalists way of casting greater proportion on how an item is used. When the "hybrid experience" as defined as when the ICE heater (used physically) or range anxiety extinguisher is actually (used psychologically) utilized less than 10% of the time, I find it difficult to call that a defining experience for Volt. Hauling ICE hardware that are useless most of the time also doesn't make it a electric biased hybrid experience IMHO.
Just for the sake of hypothetical psychological exercise, supposedly I find viewing goldfishes in aquarium empowers me to drive. I put a fixed fish tank into a model X and tap the power to reveal the tank when I hit the go paddle. Does that make the Model X somehow a "hybrid experience" with the weight of those fish tank that I am hauling change the handling dynamic too? (Okay, that's not directly comparable :p you can substitute some insanely heavy hamster wheel to somehow power the Model X under a very specific set of circumstances that happens around 1% of total driving time instead).

Let's take this discussion here:
Pure BEV Dogma
 
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I love it when the EV "purists" / snobs criticize the Volt for not being a true "EV", and that it is "just a hybrid like a Prius with a little bigger battery", and then nitpick about the Volt at times acting like a parallel hybrid.

Fact: The Volt acts like a pure EV for the first 35-53 miles (depending on Gen) of driving before charging. Those 35 EV miles in my 2012 Volt let me travel over 84% on solely the battery for the last 3 1/2 years.

And seriously, who cares whether the Volt runs in parallel or serial when the battery is depleted. If the engine is going to run anyways, might as well use that gas as efficiently as possible. Who gives a flying F___ how it burns gas as long as it's in the most efficient manner.

For someone that can't afford a $70k+ Tesla, but wants a compelling electric experience and doesn't want to wear a paper bag over their head every time they drive in public *coughLeafcough*, the Volt is a great choice.
 
I love it when the EV "purists" / snobs criticize the Volt for not being a true "EV", and that it is "just a hybrid like a Prius with a little bigger battery", and then nitpick about the Volt at times acting like a parallel hybrid.

Fact: The Volt acts like a pure EV for the first 35-53 miles (depending on Gen) of driving before charging. Those 35 EV miles in my 2012 Volt let me travel over 84% on solely the battery for the last 3 1/2 years.

And seriously, who cares whether the Volt runs in parallel or serial when the battery is depleted. If the engine is going to run anyways, might as well use that gas as efficiently as possible. Who gives a flying F___ how it burns gas as long as it's in the most efficient manner.

For someone that can't afford a $70k+ Tesla, but wants a compelling electric experience and doesn't want to wear a paper bag over their head every time they drive in public *coughLeafcough*, the Volt is a great choice.

The issue has nothing to do with snobbery. At least for me.

It has to do with accuracy and facts. Perhaps it's because I identify much more as an engineering type than a marketing type. Believe me, there are many other "marketecture" items I take issue with. A couple that spring to mind:

- "PZEV": How can something be "partially zero"? What it really boils down to is "less emissions" due to fuel evaporation and tailpipe standards. It's described thusly "The category was made in a bargain between automakers and the California Air Resources Board (CARB), so that automobile makers could delay making mandated zero-emission vehicles". But boy, it sure sounds good to get that zero in the name!

-"EcoBoost": This means "smaller turbocharged engine", that was supposed to offer the power of a V6 with the fuel economy of a 4-cylinder... it turns out instead of the best of both worlds, it often falls short of either... all while trying to sound green.


So in the same vein "EREV", to mean Extended Range Electric Vehicle" is disingenuous enough as it is when the car can only go 10-15% of it's range on electricity... but even more so with GM's misrepresentation that it didn't employ a series/parallel hybrid architecture.

Again usage and design architecture are different things, and I strive for accuracy in terminology. So just because somebody drives a hybrid only to 15% of it's range capability doesn't make it an EV an more than coasting downhill with my car in neutral with the engine off doesn't make it a ZEV, nor a boxcar derby racer.

Finally:

I love it when the EV "purists" / snobs criticize the Volt..."

someone ...doesn't want to wear a paper bag over their head every time they drive in public *coughLeafcough....

**HYPOCRISY ERROR: CREDIBILITY LOST**
 
You're missing my point. Without the ICE and the associated bits, the weight distribution of the vehicle is changed. HP to weight is changed. Interior space is changed.

EV has its advantages. Hybrid has its advantages. You are enjoying the hybrid experience when the heater is provided by the ICE. You are enjoying the hybrid experience when you don't have "range anxiety."

I've yet to experience the ICE starting up for heating. The electric cabin heater and heated seats/steering wheel suffice.

OTOH, "range anxiety" has been replaced with "voltstats anxiety". ;)
 
Again usage and design architecture are different things, and I strive for accuracy in terminology. So just because somebody drives a hybrid only to 15% of it's range capability doesn't make it an EV an more than coasting downhill with my car in neutral with the engine off doesn't make it a ZEV, nor a boxcar derby racer.

Okay, put this way I can see your point. I don't think there's any argument that the Physical Architecture of the system is a Series/Parallel Hybrid, albeit with a much larger battery than normal, unusually large motors, and a rather small engine.

However...

The Operating Strategy of the car keeps the engine off in normal operation, which results in a user experience that's very much typical EV for the vast majority of people most of the time - with more EV power and faster EV acceleration than say a Nissan Leaf - and actually more daily EV miles per car on average, too.

So what's important to the public? The User Experience, or the details of the Physical Architecture?

Do iPhone users care that they only have 70% of the battery mAh of "comparable" Android phones and 2 cores where the Android boasts four or even eight?

I would argue that they care more that they have longer battery lives and the apps open and function faster, because of Apple's more efficient (and yes, more restrictive) software instead.

Thus, I would argue that although the Physical Architecture is as you say a variation of series/parallel plug in hybrid, the EV User Experience is the relevant defining trait - at least for the majority of drivers in the majority of miles.

That's why I'm not comfortable with the endless "just a hybrid" rants we see here - the architecture may be hybrid, but the experience is anything but, and a whole lot of owners are finding the Volt to be a gateway drug to a Tesla (including me, when my X shows up in a couple weeks.)
 
That's the point! Extoll its virtues not muddy the waters. As I have typed before, a lot of people have asked me what the deal is with the Volt. They look confused, but once I say it is a hybrid, their eyes light up like they're seeing the light!

Again, there is nothing wrong with the Volt being a hybrid. It's great! It's a gateway drug as many here have testified. So why repeat a LIE that GM has admittedly confessed to?
 
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That's the point! Extoll its virtues not muddy the waters. As I have typed before, a lot of people have asked me what the deal is with the Volt. They look confused, but once I say it is a hybrid, their eyes light up like they're seeing the light!

Again, there is nothing wrong with the Volt being a hybrid. It's great! It's a gateway drug as many here have testified. So why repeat a LIE that GM has admittedly confessed to?

Maybe because people have clear expectations of what a hybrid is - and those expectations are not what a Volt is?

That's the whole point of my post up above. A Volt drives much more like a Leaf than it does a Prius, which is what folks expect when you say Hybrid.

I'm not sure I understand how calling it an extended range electric vehicle is a lie, either - it meets the definition fairly well (which it should, since GM wrote the definition for SAE.)
 
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Okay, put this way I can see your point. I don't think there's any argument that the Physical Architecture of the system is a Series/Parallel Hybrid, albeit with a much larger battery than normal, unusually large motors, and a rather small engine.

However...

The Operating Strategy of the car keeps the engine off in normal operation, which results in a user experience that's very much typical EV for the vast majority of people most of the time - with more EV power and faster EV acceleration than say a Nissan Leaf - and actually more daily EV miles per car on average, too.

Again, "in normal operation" for the first ~15% of it's range. So it's very much dependent on the driver deciding to only drive it a fraction of it's rated range.

So what's important to the public? The User Experience, or the details of the Physical Architecture?

Do iPhone users care that they only have 70% of the battery mAh of "comparable" Android phones and 2 cores where the Android boasts four or even eight?


I would argue that they care more that they have longer battery lives and the apps open and function faster, because of Apple's more efficient (and yes, more restrictive) software instead.

Agreed...iPhone users I suspect value the user experience more so than technical specs, hence their willingness to pay a premium for a platform that is often inferior from a specification standpoint than other platforms.

But I'd turn that question around: "How many Android users care about the phone architecture and specs more than the 'Apple user experience'?" I'd say "most".

Thus, I would argue that although the Physical Architecture is as you say a variation of series/parallel plug in hybrid, the EV User Experience is the relevant defining trait - at least for the majority of drivers in the majority of miles

Given that there' obviously a contingent that cares about both, the answer to satisfying both is to correctly define what the design actually IS, and then extol the unique virtues of it..

"BEV" is a category with many vehicles of vastly different capabilities within it depending on battery type, battery capacity, motors power, cooling capability number of motors, charging capability, etc... So advertise what your vehicle can do, and emphasize it's positive aspects, but don't ignore the fact there's an accepted definition of it's top-level category.

In the same way "Hybrid" is a category with vehicles of many different capabilities depending on battery type, drivetrain layout, ICE type/size, power-split implementation, etc... So again extol the virtues of your specific implementation within that category, but don't make up new categories or misrepresent what it is, when existing accepted categories already exist.

Be technically corre3ct, and advertise the user experience. That way you satisfy both camps.


That's why I'm not comfortable with the endless "just a hybrid" rants we see here - the architecture may be hybrid, but the experience is anything but, and a whole lot of owners are finding the Volt to be a gateway drug to a Tesla (including me, when my X shows up in a couple weeks.)

Honestly, take a look at this thread. I don't think many folks are denigrating the Volt and saying it's "Just a hybrid", as if that's a dirty word. It's probably the best hybrid out there. Just as the Tesla is the best BEV out there. My opinion is that Volt owners are a bit sensitive to the subject, and I quite honestly lay most of that blame at the feet of GM, who put the Volt enthusiasts/owners on the defensive with their misleading portrayal.

I suggest folks don't take criticism of the attempts to correct GM's disingenuousness as criticisms of the car or it's owners.
 
The Volt is a hybrid that can run on electricity 99% of the time .

It is much different than a typical hybrid that uses a gas engine assisted by a tiny electric motor .

I have driven over 120 miles on electric in a 24 hour period . Think of the Volt as a Nissan Leaf with a back up generator in the Frunk .
 
Maybe because people have clear expectations of what a hybrid is - and those expectations are not what a Volt is?

That's the whole point of my post up above. A Volt drives much more like a Leaf than it does a Prius, which is what folks expect when you say Hybrid.

I'm not sure I understand how calling it an extended range electric vehicle is a lie, either - it meets the definition fairly well (which it should, since GM wrote the definition for SAE.)

So you're saying that people should expect Teslas to drive more like a golf cart?

The Volt will do more by elevating the hybrid class and get people off of gas. We know full battery EVs aren't quite there yet (unless you have the $$$).
 
So you're saying that people should expect Teslas to drive more like a golf cart?

I've yet to see a golf cart do 0->60 mph in under 8 seconds (Motor Trend and C+D tests), nor sustain 100 mph.

The Volt will do more by elevating the hybrid class and get people off of gas. We know full battery EVs aren't quite there yet (unless you have the $$$).

If the Volt was "just a Prius with a larger battery" (e.g., a Chevy equivalent to a PiP), I never would have bought one. Once I realized what GM had done with the design, I was like "heck yeah - that would be perfect". Then it was just a matter of waiting for the Gen 2 to come out.