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JHWJR
Member
I driving 17.17.17, and I like it a lot. Obviously a work in progress, but I've driven for hours without a disengage or tough moment. I WANT others to get next versions first because I don't want a mistaken release that I'm stuck with for a few months. I'm happy enough now that I want "tried and true" for upcoming releases, not "guinea pig."
NikeWings
Active Member
I installed 17.24.28 Tuesday night in the S w/AP1. Nothing yet for the X w/AP2.
Just a quick 6 mile spin for curiosity's sake before heading to the airport but those miles fell into the business as usual category. AP1 is already silky smooth though, and from an AP perspective, there is nothing in AP2 that I like enough yet to even want on my AP1 car, so I lean towards 'better not to mess with it'.
However my AP2 is in need of meaningful improvement, and hoping for silky smooth to arrive soon.
IMO, that'll be the real test of Tesla's team. The revolving door over there is concerning.
Just a quick 6 mile spin for curiosity's sake before heading to the airport but those miles fell into the business as usual category. AP1 is already silky smooth though, and from an AP perspective, there is nothing in AP2 that I like enough yet to even want on my AP1 car, so I lean towards 'better not to mess with it'.
However my AP2 is in need of meaningful improvement, and hoping for silky smooth to arrive soon.
IMO, that'll be the real test of Tesla's team. The revolving door over there is concerning.
So as of right now there are five people who have an updated software release and agree with Elon's assessment that it is "silky smooth"? If there are five of you out there that believe that, why hasn't it been a bigger deal on TMC yet? The best I've heard is it is a "little smoother", but that is a far cry from "silky smooth".
whttiger25
Member
Yes agreed, but total honesty certainly wouldn't be good for shareholders.
Alex D
Member
Oddly enough, I got an update notification today. Installing at the moment.
Someone must have read my post here lol
EDIT: It's 17.24.28. Not that I expect anything major (AP1 here), but I'm taking him out on a spin this afternoon.
Someone must have read my post here lol
EDIT: It's 17.24.28. Not that I expect anything major (AP1 here), but I'm taking him out on a spin this afternoon.
CharlieLab
Member
dedicatedtek
Member
My AP1 notified me of an update yesterday - but I tend to wait for a weekend to update. Maybe I should do it now .....
Considering the only person that claimed to have already delivered silky smoothness is looking for a job on Twitter….
NikeWings
Active Member
We see this with every update to AP; its all relative to driver's AP experience, expectations, etc. Someone on TMC even named it last year.....some type of "syndrome" from wanting so badly to believe there is improvement, that its imagined.
Anyway, looking back over the past year of AP1 evolution, there was no single release that simply clinched it. It was the accumulation of tweaks that achieved the performance level, that today remains the bench for AP2. If if there were no AP2 today, then we'd probably still be crtical of AP1s achievements. Thankfully though, we have AP2, so we can parade AP1 around like the best thing out there and proclaim eventual parity of AP2 as its crowning glory.
theslimshadyist
Active Member
Off topic but I'm traveling on biz this week and I can't access my parked car through the app. Is anyone else having this issue?
do you ignore the many people who post on here saying AP2 works great for them? Autosteer works for plenty and is 100% reliable for many. oh autosteer doesn't work for my daily driving so therefore its useless and not ready for primetime!
When I hear the feedback for AP2, all I'm hearing is that there's no dramatic changes in what kinds of roads / scenarios you can use AP2 in, compared to 17.17.4. However, on the types of roads that AP2 works reliably, the control is noticeable smoother, both in steering and acceleration/braking.
I think that's still an improvement. It's a far cry from AP1 parity or "superiority" or the "enhanced" AP features originally advertised, sure. But man, some people seem so upset with this car that it seems like they're better off buying something else that makes them happier.
(Signed, a satisfied 17.17.4 AP2 driver who traded in an AP1 willingly for AP2, who is also looking forward to this new update)
I think that's still an improvement. It's a far cry from AP1 parity or "superiority" or the "enhanced" AP features originally advertised, sure. But man, some people seem so upset with this car that it seems like they're better off buying something else that makes them happier.
(Signed, a satisfied 17.17.4 AP2 driver who traded in an AP1 willingly for AP2, who is also looking forward to this new update)
I usually lean pretty hard towards seeing everything about autosteer as pretty great, but "100% reliable" is just false. I'd find it pretty surprising if anybody who uses it regularly has managed to never have it make a mistake. When used properly with the driver always paying attention to what's going on around them and ready to take over, if necessary, I've found it to be extremely safe. But nobody should think, under any circumstances, that it's absolutely perfect and doesn't need supervision.
I don't have much experience with AP1 outside of my test drive, but what's the biggest gap between AP1 and 2 at this point? I know there's the missing things(auto wipers, showing types of cars and showing cars in adjacent lanes), but those seem pretty unimportant. The only thing I can really think of is the jerkiness of going around corners, lane departure on corners, and braking. But it sounds like this update fixes those. And on the flip side, so far as I've seen/read, truck lust isn't a thing on AP2.
It's super clear that this is not an update for AP2.
This has rolled to 160 cars in the last 3 days on ev-fw. Less than 10 are AP2 cars. It's basically actively avoiding AP2 cars. If Tesla thinks this improves AP2, they are insane for waiting on this roll out. They know how to get updates to the whole AP2 fleet in just 3-4 days, they have done it before. They are under the pressure of saying 2-6 weeks between roll outs, which they have now missed, they have the pressure of hearing this makes steering better, and the pressure of having said this would be out last weekend, the pressure of having sent out an email saying all cars can perpendicular park. Yet with all of that, they don't roll it to AP2 cars. Something's up, possibly just as simple as it doesn't do anything, or some new feature like perpendicular park is really broken.
This has rolled to 160 cars in the last 3 days on ev-fw. Less than 10 are AP2 cars. It's basically actively avoiding AP2 cars. If Tesla thinks this improves AP2, they are insane for waiting on this roll out. They know how to get updates to the whole AP2 fleet in just 3-4 days, they have done it before. They are under the pressure of saying 2-6 weeks between roll outs, which they have now missed, they have the pressure of hearing this makes steering better, and the pressure of having said this would be out last weekend, the pressure of having sent out an email saying all cars can perpendicular park. Yet with all of that, they don't roll it to AP2 cars. Something's up, possibly just as simple as it doesn't do anything, or some new feature like perpendicular park is really broken.
Apart from the obvious missing features you pointed out, the biggest difference after 20k miles on AP1 and 5k miles on AP2 are:
- AP1 recognizes cars from a much much greater distance, really noticeable when approaching extremely slow traffic on the freeway. You'll see a tiny speck on the screen representing a distant car ahead, and you start coasting maybe 2x earlier on AP1 compared to AP2.
- AP1's accelerator, brake, and steering controls are simply smoother. Maybe Silky Smooth (tm) makes this closer to parity, but AP1 operates the car much like a human driver would (sometimes passengers can't tell the difference). AP2, it's bloody apparent that a robot is driving your car.
- AP1's Auto Lane Changes are smoother, and do not involve a sudden braking in the middle of the maneuver due to momentary confusion of whether the lead car is in your lane.
- AP1 is much better at identifying other cars and what lanes they're in. Not just visually, but this matters for TACC a ton. If you're in an express lane going 80mph next to stop-and-go traffic next to you, AP2 will once in a while suddenly (falsely) believe a neighboring car is in your lane, and slam on the brakes as if someone just cut you off. AP1 seemed far far far more reliable at correctly guessing whether or not a car is in your lane.
- In city driving, AP1 can deal with breaks in the lane markers (such as intersections) without flipping out. AP2 can sometimes handle this, but more often than not it will see some completely nonsensical lane lines in the middle of an intersection and jerk your car left or right.
- AP1 is better at understanding "false" lane lines, such as those caused by road grooves or erased lane markers in the sun. AP2 seems to treat both as nearly equals. I have a spot on the freeway where AP2 consistently follows pavement grooves and basically executes a lane change. When there's no traffic around me, I let it do its thing. It's totally oblivious to having made any sort of mistake, the screen happily shows the car "centered" in its lane the whole time.
- AP1 follows level road sweeping turns better than AP2. On sharp curves, AP2 flat out departs the lane, and knows it's departing the lane. It's as if AP2 has a max steering angle set really low, and it simply is not allowed to command enough steering to follow really curvy roads.
That might sound like a big list of gripes from someone who just said he's satisfied with AP2. And the reason is, I honestly see lots of sparks of hope in AP2. Namely:
- Truck lust is TOTALLY gone in AP2. I am becoming convinced that AP1 truck lust is something Tesla battled a lot and got better at over time, but never fully resolved. Basically, when a truck casts a shadow over the lane marker (or drives over it momentarily), AP1 tends to completely lose the lane line and go into faded-lane-guessing-mode. That sometimes leads to an unpredictable adjustment towards the truck. AP2 does not have this behavior at all, you can pass dozens of trucks on I-5 and it never dives for one.
- Curves + Hills is AP1's enemy. The steering loop doesn't seem to be responsive enough to compensate for both a curve and a hill contributing to lane centering.
- AP1 gets really erratic when cresting hills. It seems like AP1 relies a lot more on being able to see 2-3 seconds ahead, and planning a path "into the future" so to speak. So when cresting a hill and seeing the new lane markers for the first time, AP1 is a bit deer-in-the-headlights for 2-3 seconds while AP2 sees new scenes instantly.
Agreed, they either found some big issue on AP2 cars or have reason to suspect there might be one. Pessimistically, the update is broken. Optimistically, they're deploying to a small number of AP2 cars first and waiting to make sure everything is ok.
If they know of issues, why are they rolling it to cars in service, and brand new delivered cars for new owners? If they are making sure everything is OK, why have they been rolling it to these new AP2 cars for 2+ weeks? It's never taken them 2 weeks to do a slow roll out before.
It's just weird overall.
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