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Green New Deal

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The chart depicts rising tax revenues to the government over the last 100+ years. Perhaps you can provide the "missing context".

In any event, I guess it gets down to what percentage of the economy you want the government to control? I am sure there is some ideal amount but I tend to believe the private sector overall does a better job than the government. But that's just me.
Taxation doesn’t cause money to vanish. There’s still the same amount of money in the system. It’s simply a question of more private consumption or more public spending.

Public spending creates jobs and demand for goods & services just as much as you buying a new Porsche- just ask all the defence contractors.

Targeted government investment in infrastructure can deliver huge benefits - just look at Eisenhower’s freeways as well as NASA, FEMA, DOA, DOE.

Arguably the South Koreans, Germans and Chinese are better capitalists than the US today because of superior coordination between public and private sectors, including public education. All I see most US corporates doing these days is buying back stock and handing out golden parachutes to their CEOs.

Your chart shows government revenue at equivalent levels to the 1970s and 80s - a period of time in which company taxation was much higher. A disproportionate % of federal revenue is now contributed by personal income taxes.

No wonder the US middle class is feeling squeezed as education and housing costs go up along with indebtedness, but job security goes down as corporates outsource to “low cost” (read exploitable) countries. Capital can now move but labour can’t - what’s good for General Motors (read their shareholders) is no longer good for America.

Such a system will collapse without a rebalancing such as the Green New Deal or will cause the rise of fascism. Fascism is simply corporate oligarchy with a veneer of populism and violence.
 
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Yesterday LA Mayor Eric Garcetti invoked the Green New Deal in announcing that LA would change direction and phase out 3 natural gas generating facilities in favor of renewables:

“It’s the right thing to do for our health. It’s the right thing to do for our Earth. It’s the right thing to do for our economy,” Garcetti said. “And now is the time to start the beginning of the end of natural gas.”​

“This is the Green New Deal,” he added, referring to the sweeping climate change policies championed by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y) and endorsed by several contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination. “Not in concept, not in the future, but now.”​

The gas plants were scheduled to have $2.2B in refurbishments by 2024 and 2029 but will be taken off line instead.

Los Angeles ditches plan to invest billions in fossil fuels, Mayor Eric Garcetti says
 
How to Cut U.S. Emissions Faster? Do What These Countries Are Doing. How to Cut U.S. Emissions Faster? Do What These Countries Are Doing.

Carbon tax: The tax on coal, oil and natural gas starts at $7.50 per ton of carbon dioxide in 2020 and reaches $37.50 per ton by 2033. This is based on the rates and schedule for British Columbia’s carbon tax, which began in 2008. (The province rebates most of the tax revenue back to its residents, but our policy makes no assumptions about how the money might be used.) Many of the earliest emissions cuts here come from utilities switching more rapidly away from coal.

Clean electricity standard: This policy is partly modeled after existing state-level standards. It requires utilities to increase the amount of electricity they produce from carbon-free sources — including wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, geothermal and biomass — until they reach 100 percent clean electricity in 2050. For comparison, California is steadily increasing its clean electricity requirements to 100 percent by 2045, while New York has announced a 2040 goal.

Electric vehicle push: Rather than model Norway’s specific set of electric vehicle tax incentives, this scenario assumes that the United States makes a push to match the rapid recent growth in Norway’s electric vehicle sales over the next eight years. (Between 2011 and 2018, electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids went from 1.6 percent of new sales in Norway to 49 percent.) After 2027, the electric vehicle share of new passenger car sales rises linearly until they account for nearly all of new sales by 2050. This policy does not affect trucks, buses, ships or airplanes.

Industrial efficiency standards: The industrial efficiency gains are based on a 2016 Department of Energy study that looked at the potential for the industrial sector to double its energy savings above expected improvements. Our scenario assumes that these industries achieve half of this potential. The model does not account for possible trade impacts from these rules.

Building codes: This policy reduces energy use in new homes and buildings. In 2016, the California Energy Commission calculated that the state’s stricter building codes would reduce energy-use intensity by 29 percent for residential buildings and 13 percent for commercial buildings, compared with existing national standards. Our scenario assumes that the United States could achieve similar reductions by 2050 by adopting a California-style standard nationwide. It does not affect energy use in existing buildings.

Methane standards: Canada’s methane rules aim to reduce emissions from oil and gas operations 40 to 45 percent below 2012 levels by 2025. The policy in our scenario aims to reduce U.S. methane emissions from oil and gas 40 percent below projected levels by 2030.

HFC phaseout: This policy reduces the use of hydrofluorocarbons in line with the requirements under the 2016 Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, an agreement that the United States signed but has yet to ratify. In comparison with projections of HFC growth, this policy would reduce emissions from fluorinated gases by 96 percent by 2050.

The model also captures interactions between these policies. A push to promote electric cars is far more effective at reducing emissions if the grid charging these vehicles is getting cleaner at the same time. Conversely, industrial efficiency standards have a smaller impact if there is already a carbon tax in place spurring companies to find energy savings on their own.
 
I think you're describing Capitalism
The extremes of both put a few people in charge and give them all the wealth leaving out everyone else. They just use different methods to get there. The problem is the definition of socialism.

Socialism in the Marx context means government runs the industry.

Socialism in the Green Deal and FDR context means government provides social services.

Industry has never done well at providing social services because industry is focused on profit. The easiest way to have profit is to collect money and keep it. So healthcare insurance companies deny claims. Prisons lobby for more prisoners because they make a profit on each prisoner.

Government run as a business is also bad because the goals are different. (Well, they are supposed to be different anyway). Government is supposed to provide opportunities for people to advance themselves and enjoy a dignified retirement. Running government as a business does just the opposite. The result of running government as a business is the high student debt, which many will never be able to pay back, a high number of homeless, people being bankrupt by medical problems, seniors living in poverty or having to work until they die, etc.
 
Taxation doesn’t cause money to vanish. There’s still the same amount of money in the system. It’s simply a question of more private consumption or more public spending.

While I enjoyed reading your post, I had difficulty with some but not all of it. Let's start with your opening since if you cannot understand the underlying principles it is probably not worth discussing further. Taxation, especially at higher levels can absolutely erode "wealth" or even make it disappear.

If taxed high enough, asset values of the very rich would implode. Expensive real estate, art, yachts, stock and many accouterments and holdings would undoubtedly lose value. So no, the same "amount of money" (value) is no longer on the balance sheet. Said another way less "money" in the system and less to redistribute. The question is where did the wealth go if it is not in the system any longer?
 
While I enjoyed reading your post, I had difficulty with some but not all of it. Let's start with your opening since if you cannot understand the underlying principles it is probably not worth discussing further. Taxation, especially at higher levels can absolutely erode "wealth" or even make it disappear.

If taxed high enough, asset values of the very rich would implode. Expensive real estate, art, yachts, stock and many accouterments and holdings would undoubtedly lose value. So no, the same "amount of money" (value) is no longer on the balance sheet. Said another way less "money" in the system and less to redistribute. The question is where did the wealth go if it is not in the system any longer?
Let me shed a tear for the billionaires suddenly unable to buy another yacht. ;)
Expensive art, yachts and real estate create few jobs. Much better to put that wealth to work giving people a good education, shelter, health care and food. A good side effect of this is that it will make housing more affordable. Recent studies have shown that a large part of the runup in prices of real estate has been caused by the rich buying extra housing as speculation. (Also money laundering.)
 
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Let me shed a tear for the billionaires suddenly unable to buy another yacht. ;)
Expensive art, yachts and real estate create few jobs. Much better to put that wealth to work giving people a good education, shelter, health care and food. A good side effect of this is that it will make housing more affordable. Recent studies have shown that a large part of the runup in prices of real estate has been caused by the rich buying extra housing as speculation. (Also money laundering.)

I agree, but it's too late to claw most of that money back, it is already allocated where it is. What would you do with all the mansions? They still would not be affordable, just cheaper. As I said earlier, even if we would have taxed all the money of all the billionaires wealth, divide it up by 350 million people and it hardly moves the needle.
 
I agree, but it's too late to claw most of that money back, it is already allocated where it is. What would you do with all the mansions? They still would not be affordable, just cheaper. As I said earlier, even if we would have taxed all the money of all the billionaires wealth, divide it up by 350 million people and it hardly moves the needle.
Senator Elizabeth Warren proposed an annual tax on wealth in January 2019, specifically a 2% tax for wealth over $50 million and another 1% surcharge on wealth over $1 billion. Wealth is defined as including all asset classes, including financial assets and real estate. Economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman estimated that about 75,000 households (less than 0.1%) would pay the tax. The tax would raise around $2.75 trillion over 10 years, roughly 1% GDP on average per year. This would raise the total tax burden for those subject to the wealth tax from 3.2% of their wealth under current law to about 4.3% on average, versus the 7.2% for the bottom 99% families.[77]

While not taxing "all the money", it would help inequality. It would generate about 1% of the GDP each year.
Interesting that the rich would still not be paying their fair share since their burden would only be 4.3% of their wealth vs the rest of us who pay 7.2% of their wealth. That $275 Billion a year would go a long way to providing housing, education and health care for everyone.
 
So people promoting Marxism and socialism are just idiots then? Can these people not see how these Communist ideas destroy innovation and economies; how the leaders of these societies oppress their people and become wealthy tyrants?
You keep saying those words "Marxism," and "Communism." I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
 
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Opinion | The Green New Deal Is What Realistic Environmental Policy Looks Like

Conservative critics predictably call it “a shocking document” and “a call for enviro-socialism in America,” but liberal condescension has cut deeper. The House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, essentially dismissed it as branding, saying, “The green dream, or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is, but they’re for it, right?” Others have criticized it for leaving out any mention of a carbon tax, a cornerstone of mainstream climate-policy proposals, while embracing a left-populist agenda that includes universal health care, stronger labor rights and a jobs guarantee.

What do these goals have to do with stabilizing atmospheric carbon levels before climate change makes large parts of the world uninhabitable? What has taken liberal critics aback is that the Green New Deal strays so far from the traditional environmental emphasis on controlling pollution, which the carbon tax aims to do, and tries to solve the problems of economic inequality, poverty and even corporate concentration (there’s an antimonopoly clause).

But this everything-and-the-carbon-sink strategy is actually a feature of the approach, not a bug, and not only for reasons of ideological branding. In the 21st century, environmental policy is economic policy. Keeping the two separate isn’t a feat of intellectual discipline. It’s an anachronism.
 
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But this everything-and-the-carbon-sink strategy is actually a feature of the approach, not a bug, and not only for reasons of ideological branding. In the 21st century, environmental policy is economic policy. Keeping the two separate isn’t a feat of intellectual discipline. It’s an anachronism.
Not a viewpoint I share, but interesting non the less. I think your POV has philosophical merit that will crumble in the face of unintended consequences and human perversion and greed*. In my little simpleton world I just want to internalize currently externalized costs.

*Allow me to paraphrase GBS (Shaw) about his view of Christianity when he said something along the lines of it is a nice idea (but an awful reality.)
 
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But this everything-and-the-carbon-sink strategy is actually a feature of the approach, not a bug, and not only for reasons of ideological branding. In the 21st century, environmental policy is economic policy. Keeping the two separate isn’t a feat of intellectual discipline. It’s an anachronism.
I'd suggest that anachronism isn't quite the right word, although it's not wrong. The split between those politicians favouring NGD and the opponents is better defined as "the division between those who have been purchased and those who work for the good of the people and future generations". I don't know if there is a single word to describe this.
 
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I'd suggest that anachronism isn't quite the right word, although it's not wrong. The split between those politicians favouring NGD and the opponents is better defined as "the division between those who have been purchased and those who work for the good of the people and future generations". I don't know if there is a single word to describe this.
Corrupt
 
Not a viewpoint I share, but interesting non the less. I think your POV has philosophical merit that will crumble in the face of unintended consequences and human perversion and greed*. In my little simpleton world I just want to internalize currently externalized costs.

*Allow me to paraphrase GBS (Shaw) about his view of Christianity when he said something along the lines of it is a nice idea.
Perhaps this will explain it better.

Our carbon emissions are not mainly about the price of gasoline or electricity. They’re about infrastructure. For every human being, there are over 1,000 tons of built environment: roads, office buildings, power plants, cars and trains and long-haul trucks. It is a technological exoskeleton for the species. Everything most of us do, we do through it: calling our parents, getting to work, moving for a job, taking the family on vacation, finding food for the evening or staying warm in a polar vortex. Just being human in this artificial world implies a definite carbon footprint — and for that matter, a trail of footprints in water use, soil compaction, habitat degradation and pesticide use. You cannot change the climate impact of Americans without changing the built American landscape.
 
https://thinkprogress.org/an-opportunity-for-farmers-in-a-green-new-deal-a6dea9e9a4b8/

While farming generally takes a back seat to energy in discussions of climate, according to estimates it accounts for up to a third of carbon pollution. Tractors and trucks that harvest and transport our food burn gasoline and diesel, generating pollution. Synthetic fertilizers derived from fossil fuels spur the release of heat-trapping gas from the soil, and cows and sheep emit large volumes of planet-warming pollution. Then there is the matter of agricultural giants burning forests to clear land for farming and grazing, thereby releasing carbon stored in trees into the atmosphere and reducing the capacity of the land to store CO2.

And yet, while agriculture is a big part of the problem, it can also be part of the solution. Smart growing practices can help soak up pollution and store it in the ground — what’s known as carbon farming.
 
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