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"Handover party for first 30 customer Model 3's on (July) 28th!"

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do you suppose that Elon might be called an employee? perhaps he has some skin in the game - and owning the SN1 for some museum might be valuable well beyond the $35K purchase price. Further the VIP may be more than just interested...perhaps skin too?

He is definitely an employee and is the right guy to have SN1 ... both have a vested interest. When do to invitations go out? :cool:
 
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I think the first 10 should be given to the professional drivers that have been driving those cars full time.
This would generate the most testing miles.
Unless they're confident that the first few production models will be exactly the same as the last RC models and the real testing value is hundreds being driven every day by normal drivers instead.
 
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I think the first 10 should be given to the professional drivers that have been driving those cars full time.
This would generate the most testing miles.
Unless they're confident that the first few production models will be exactly the same as the last RC models and the real testing value is hundreds being driven every day by normal drivers instead.

It would be better than what GM did.

They brought their EV to different cities to show it off. Then let people drive it. Lastly, they were given a questionnaire. 80% of the people said they would consider an EV like that.

Then they released them on a lease-only basis with the clause that you could return it at any time. You had to apply for it, since they wanted 'typical' car owners in metro areas where GM had put in MagnaChargers. No EV enthusiasts or press need apply, they tried to filter out to only the typical car owner.

Epic Fail. All they learned was nearly 80% of people lie on surveys.
 
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It would be better than what GM did.

They brought their EV to different cities to show it off. Then let people drive it. Lastly, they were given a questionnaire. 80% of the people said they would consider an EV like that.

Then they released them on a lease-only basis with the clause that you could return it at any time. You had to apply for it, since they wanted 'typical' car owners in metro areas where GM had put in MagnaChargers. No EV enthusiasts or press need apply, they tried to filter out to only the typical car owner.

Epic Fail. All they learned was nearly 80% of people lie on surveys.
In 6 months it will be crystal clear that Tesla is serious about popular EVs and that GM is just doing the minimum to say its serious about EVs, when its still only serious about profits.

Its my view that comparing Tesla and GM is silly.
 
I think the first 10 should be given to the professional drivers that have been driving those cars full time.
This would generate the most testing miles.
Unless they're confident that the first few production models will be exactly the same as the last RC models and the real testing value is hundreds being driven every day by normal drivers instead.

Tesla will still be in pre-production for a couple of months.The first production car is probably only legally different from the late "RC" cars as it can be normally registered.

Most of the first couple of hundred cars they produce will be driven plenty of miles for the reason you stated. Presumably most of the first thousand vehicles will be owned and driven by Fremont employees and be part of an explicit system to track problems.
 
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If this is mutually exclusive as you seem to imply then EVs are doomed to fail. Personally, I think in the long run they will be far more profitable than ICEs. Battery technology like they use in these cars is still in its infancy.
Where did you get that I'm implying EVs are doomed to fail ?
What I am saying is that GM has never been serious about EVs and they're only doing EVs because they're afraid it might be the future and they might go bankrupt (again) if they wait until its too late.
On the other hand, Tesla doesn't have tens of billions to make EVs happen faster. They must make ends meet. They're the rapidly growing force but which still amounts to a man vs the several 800lb gorillas (Toyota, BMW, GM, Nissan, Fiat, ...). A man doesn't fight a bunch of gorillas bare handed.
But once Model 3 is a hit with half a million units/yr are being delivered (plus MS+MX+PowerPack+PowerWall+SolarCity+future cars revenue), then Tesla will be a big boy with actual revenue similar to the other companies with only purely electrical vehicles.
I look forward to Tesla having at least 3 battery GFs operating at full capacity. At that point its game over for companies that still don't take electrification of ground transportation seriously.
 
In 6 months it will be crystal clear that Tesla is serious about popular EVs and that GM is just doing the minimum to say its serious about EVs, when its still only serious about profits.

Its my view that comparing Tesla and GM is silly.

Where do you think those profits go? GM pays an almost 5% dividend, and is held by many individuals on fixed income, as well as funds designed to produce income. GM provides funds that its owners rely on to live.

Tesla is a speculative venture. GM is expected to be run in a considerably more conservative and consistent manner.
 
I look forward to Tesla having at least 3 battery GFs operating at full capacity. At that point its game over for companies that still don't take electrification of ground transportation seriously.

Tesla with three factories in addition to Fremont will produce about 3% of the world's automobiles. If you think that is "game over" your math teacher probably should have been in a different line of work.
 
In 6 months it will be crystal clear that Tesla is serious about popular EVs and that GM is just doing the minimum to say its serious about EVs, when its still only serious about profits.

Its my view that comparing Tesla and GM is silly.

I can't seem to find a review of the 1996 Tesla. Can you provide a link please?

Regardless, if the Volt is the minimum possible effort, then the Prius is far under 50% of the minimum effort. Ultra slow, clumsy in corners, poor technology, and somewhat of a joke. But people buy them regardless of how bad they are.

Toyota is King of Green. Not just King of auto production, but Green. Toyota will save the Planet no matter what anybody else actually does.
 
See new polls - Toyota no longer king of green.
Well, Toyota certainly makes the dirtiest large vehicles, but how are they at GREEN vehicles? They are the King of the Hype.

While the following is 100% manure, I hear the same thing from non-car people I talk to, and I see it in the symbolism in movies, TV, and media:

TECH: Toyota Most Green Car Company, Tesla Least On Newsweek’s 2016 Top 500 Green Companies Listing

All versions combined, there are 55,100 Priuses sold in the US in 2017.
The article says Priuses outsell all other EV technology vehicles combined by over 2:1. If it has a traction battery and motor, it's EV tech.

There have been 89,295 EV/PHEVs sold in the US alone, not counting hybrids.

At best, Priuses are 1/3 of the green market, not 2/3rd's.
 
Tesla with three factories in addition to Fremont will produce about 3% of the world's automobiles. If you think that is "game over" your math teacher probably should have been in a different line of work.
Its is game over because at that point Tesla should have sales at least 50% of the largest car maker in the world, Toyota. At that point Tesla will either be able to startup another 2 giga factories/ year (assuming they can both make cells, packs, cars and energy storage at the same site), while not having to borrow a penny or dilute its stock.
There are also other arguments like trying to sell a Tesla to a conservative customer which doesn't want to purchase cars from companies it doesn't consider financially solid. At that point Tesla should be selling a lot of cars in developing countries (China, India, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, eastern Europe, ...) which helps it diversify its income (very helpful from a basket of currencies perspective).
Its game over because at that point other car makers will start to look like fossils. Those that start seriously investing on EVs TODAY still have a chance. For those that wait another 2 years it might be too late.
There's talk of a new generation of fossil fuel engines which would have 40% efficiency (without regen), add regen to that and you could have near 60% net efficiency for in city driving. That might be the way to give fossil cars another 10 years of good sales before even those die anyway.
Oh, GM paying its 5% dividend, good in the short term, but in the long run its a disaster if GM goes bankrupt again.
Some people insist on treating number of cars sales as the important metric. Thats boloney. What matters is US$ billion in sales / year. If Tesla is selling US$ 50 billion / yr and growing, to me it doesn't matter if its 80% cars, 20% the rest, 50/50, or 40/60. What matters is it has the cash to keep growing.
A US$ 150k Tesla generates at least 20x more positive cash flow than US$ 15k popular cars.
Units / year doesn't matter. Even sales don't matter that much either. Its positive cash flow that matters (before investments and tolling).

I said they were doomed to fail. You said GM wasn't serious about EVs and only cared about profits, suggesting they have to pick one or the other. If that's true, then EVs are impractical and should fail.
EVs are NOT impractical. A Model 3 was impractical 10 years ago. First came the roadster, then the Model S, the X, now the Model 3. The model Y will be even cheaper. The Tesla Semi should hit the road in 18 to 24 months, something that were considered insanity just 2 years ago (a 400 to 1000kWh Lithium pack on a vehicle).
Those that consider EVs impractical pretend the technology and lithium costs are stuck at the numbers from 12-18 months ago and pretend its not evolving.
 
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