Happy Birthday AP 2.0

[AnxietyRanger]

More quality commentary.

Since as you say previously, 35,000 purchased FSD, there’s a pretty damn good class action there when Elon doesn’t deliver Level 5 on those cars. Add lawyers fees, negative PR, etc and I really don’t see Tesla winning. Notice how Elon has completely stopped tweeting about AP and FSD...

If it is not a mission killer (which it probably won't be), Tesla would still win in this @calisnow scenario - the AP2 story @calisnow described would have sustained Tesla through a rough match (the MobilEye divorce) and kept a demand lever pulling the sales up in a time of need.

When Model 3 is out there in volume, we (the AP2 customers) have done what they needed of us. We don't matter anymore and can be discarded at a cost. Or so the theory goes.

 

[calisnow]

It is called the fallacy of relative privation ("not as bad as") – dismissing an argument or complaint due to the existence of more important problems in the world, regardless of whether those problems bear relevance to the initial argument.

No, it is not the fallacy of relative privation. There is nothing painful at all about the sight of people who did not pay for an option on the luxury good they purchased whining to Tesla executives - except the pain of cringing at their cluelessness.

@buttershrimp is doing similar things[/QUOTE]

Actually he isn't.

...the attacks against me are also, e.g.: Ad hominem ... poisoning the well ... abusive fallacy ...appeal to motive...

You instinctively frame this forum as a place of debate, or of scientific paper peer review. Many of us (I'll refrain from using the word "most") would prefer this forum to be more like a congenial cocktail party of likeminded fellows. We may occasionally debate positions, but the larger purpose of our gathering is the shared celebration of a mutual interest - and of each other. We gain utility from enjoying each other's company. But our cocktail party has been poisoned by the presence of certain members who prefer to turn almost every exchange into a debate. In "real life" the solution is simple - that boring, wearying, socially awkward fellow doesn't get invited to the next party. Or, if a real life club - that fellow is physically left off in a corner to stand around with a couple other guys who also don't understand social cues. The rest of us don't have to endure his presence. Unfortunately, in the endless cocktail party here at TMC there's no easy way to disinvite that guy and there's no easy way to shrink his voice by simply crowding him out. As long as he keeps pounding away at the keyboard his comments appear just as prominently as anyone else's. The "ignore" tool is a club, not a scalpel.

 

[Swift]

If it is not a mission killer (which it probably won't be), Tesla would still win in this @calisnow scenario - the AP2 story @calisnow described would have sustained Tesla through a rough match (the MobilEye divorce) and kept a demand lever pulling the sales up in a time of need.

When Model 3 is out there in volume, we (the AP2 customers) have done what they needed of us. We don't matter anymore and can be discarded at a cost. Or so the theory goes.

Agreed overall. I’m more focused on the specific case of FSD on AP2 and I don’t see Tesla winning that battle if/when a class forms. To your point, there will be a cost to Tesla when they discard those owners. Also, if I saw something like that in the media when I was researching my purchase, I would have likely passed so there is a future impact here that only gets worse when competition arrives...

 

[calisnow]

If it is not a mission killer (which it probably won't be), Tesla would still win in this @calisnow scenario - the AP2 story @calisnow described would have sustained Tesla through a rough match (the MobilEye divorce) and kept a demand lever pulling the sales up in a time of need.

When Model 3 is out there in volume, we (the AP2 customers) have done what they needed of us. We don't matter anymore and can be discarded at a cost. Or so the theory goes.

Admittedly it's just a theory. I'll get back to you 5 years from now with the results.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

We may occasionally debate positions, but the larger purpose of our gathering is the shared celebration of a mutual interest - and of each other. We gain utility from enjoying each other's company. But our cocktail party has been poisoned by the presence of certain members who prefer to turn almost every exchange into a debate

Now, there is no fallacy here in this part of your post. This is a perfectly understandable position. A different position from mine, but no fallacy.

That said, in my understanding the owners of TMC have not set up TMC with such a mission - nor the thread starter in this case. If they do come out and clarify the purpose of this forum as such, then I will happily oblige. Until then, I participate under the assumption that debate is welcomed by the forum as well as the thread starter in this case.

 

[calisnow]

That's just the cocaine kicking in.

Ohhh yeahhh baby - good morning world! Time to make some money and kick some *ss!

 

[calisnow]

@calisnow speaks some truth, and brings great perspective to the disillusioned....

“But when Odysseus rose, that man of many devices, fixing his down-cast eyes on the ground he stood: nor his scepter swayed, either this way or that like a practiced speaker, but held it motionless, even as a man unskilled in the arts of persuasion. One would declare him mute with passion or wanting in judgment. But when he spoke, when his powerful voice went forth from his bosom, issuing words which fell like flakes of snow in winter, surely no mortal man might hope to compete with Odysseus. Lost in wonder we sat, but not, as before, at his manner.”

― Homer

Wow. Next time my girlfriend rolls her eyes at me I'm gonna remind her that on TMC they compare me to a Greek king. We'll see how that goes over. @buttershrimp your check's in the mail.

 

[alcibiades]

In sum: it is ok for Tesla to defraud people because individuals have hard-ons for full self-driving happening someday and praise Elon and T$LA.

 

[182RG]

Many of us (I'll refrain from using the word "most") would prefer this forum to be more like a congenial cocktail party of likeminded fellows. We may occasionally debate positions, but the larger purpose of our gathering is a circle jerk. We gain utility from enjoying each other's company. But our cocktail party has been poisoned by the presence of certain members who prefer to turn almost every exchange into a debate.

@calisnow. I do, truly, appreciate your honesty and candor. I, too, approach life by being direct. You confirm for "many of us" who have suspected that there are "many of you" who would prefer TMC be an Owners Club, locked down unless you submit a VIN# for approval to enter. BTW, in the interest of brevity, I fixed your statement above.

 

[calisnow]

In sum: it is ok for Tesla to defraud people because individuals have hard-ons for full self-driving happening someday and praise Elon and T$LA.

If you are implying that I think it is "ok" for Tesla to defraud people - I'm neither claiming Tesla defrauded anyone nor am I claiming it is ethically acceptable to do so - or to lie. I am simply saying that lying in some circumstances is the most rational action given a set of particular goals. I make no ethical claims.

 

[BigD0g]

I thought this was a birthday celebration!!

 

[alcibiades]

@calisnow. I do, truly, appreciate your honesty and candor. I, too, approach life by being direct. You confirm for "many of us" who have suspected that there are "many of you" who would prefer TMC be an Owners Club, locked down unless you submit a VIN# for approval to enter. BTW, in the interest of brevity, I fixed your statement above.

It is no irony that the person who is complaining about things becoming a debate is the one who is arguing against the tenor of the thread and appeared only to berate the people who dare care about being lied to.

 

[alcibiades]

I thought this was a birthday celebration!!

View attachment 254884

That's how trolls work. Buttershrimp and calisnow are good soldiers.

 

[kvandivo]

35,000 people have purchased FSD - that is over one hundred million dollars in cash for Tesla to use as it wishes. And of course we don't know how many Teslas were sold that otherwise would not have been, had the "full self driving" announcement not been made.

I'm in no way questioning the validity of that number, but where did you get it? I've been curious about this for a while but hadn't seen any numbers.

 

[calisnow]

@calisnow. I do, truly, appreciate your honesty and candor. I, too, approach life by being direct. You confirm for "many of us" who have suspected that there are "many of you" who would prefer TMC be an Owners Club, locked down unless you submit a VIN# for approval to enter. BTW, in the interest of brevity, I fixed your statement above.

I used to wonder why you single me out for insults - you never say anything funny, no positive comments, no conversation back and forth - ever. Just insults - only insults. So I looked at your history. Here are your past 28 posts - going back to late July (at that point I stopped counting). You insult the moderators, fellow members and Elon musk in 86% of your posts. Only 4 of your last 28 posts contained useful content with no insults (as quoted by the post search function - even those 4 posts might have contained insults). None have been left out. Each line is a snippet of one post as quoted by the profile post search. You aren't funny. You aren't clever. You don't engage in interesting discussions. You're just - clearly an angry person. I'm sorry for you - hope your life gets better - honestly.

@182RG 's contributions to this forum:

October 19 -Accuses member of enjoying mutual masturbation
-"...So, lying is OK to keep the stock price propped up..."
"FTFY...let's not shift responsibility"
"...let's leave it at that..."
"Depressing..."
non-snide
"Meaningless and without merit..."
non-snide
"huckster-in-chief...posts a video...it's got to be good..."
"one of Elmo's friends..."
Claims Tesla will never build a $35K M3
"You can stop repeating yourself"
non-snide
"tweet...radio silence...information vacuum...tweet..."
non-snide
Insults moderators "This site is grossly mis-moderated..."
Insults Musk "Elmo is too busy focusing on Mars..."
Moved to snippiness
"...excuses for Tesla"
Slams CPO experience "...where is the 'CPO' part of your buying experience..."
Says Tesla is creepy "...not only is it creepy"
Insults Elon "...EM is having trouble finding the 'ON' switch..."
"...why would anyone with an ounce of financial sense..."
Insults Tesla "...hand building cars is hard"
Insults Musk "...I'll take 'totally lied' for $500..."
Insults people who use tax credits "...stop transferring the cost. If you can afford it..."
Insults Elon "EM packs a lot of arrogance and hubris"

 

[calisnow]

I'm in no way questioning the validity of that number, but where did you get it? I've been curious about this for a while but hadn't seen any numbers.

I saw it in an article somewhere - anyone have the source?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I seem to remember it too, may have been on Electrek.co.

 

[alcibiades]

To update the thread:

On topic -- One year post-announcement and no EAP features are enabled, HW2 doesn't do all that HW1 does, and there are no FSD features or further displays. At the time of announcement Tesla claimed on order pages that EAP was expected to be complete and downloaded in a software update in 12/16. Tesla maintained this claim on its order pages into 1/17. Tesla has since updated HW2 to HW2.5.

Off topic -- Several posters are trying to derail the thread and the moderators don't give a *sugar*.

 

[182RG]

hope your life gets better - honestly

No anger, just direct. "Many of us" hope the Tesla gets better, improves quality and service, becomes more open, more honest, and more focused without the un-necessary distractions. I'm still VERY compelled by Tesla as a vehicle choice, but my cash and I wait on the sidelines. It's that simple.

 

[calisnow]

No anger, just direct. "Many of us" hope the Tesla gets better, improves quality and service, becomes more open, more honest, and more focused without the un-necessary distractions. I'm still VERY compelled by Tesla as a vehicle choice, but my cash and I wait on the sidelines. It's that simple.

"Direct" is not an excuse for unending and relentless negativity. You really contribute nothing. Even @Bladerskb - one of the most disliked members here - contributes a lot of information. @AnxietyRanger is controversial - but you're just nasty to people - to everyone. There are some people who are a mix of highs and lows - who send out brilliant quips. Some bomb, some are over the line, some are insulting, some compliments. You're just nothing but mean comments to everyone in sight. Now I'll be direct - the forum would be better off without you here.

EDIT - not nothing. The "non-snide" posts you made were worthwhile. It's too bad they're so few.