Happy Birthday AP 2.0

[oktane]

I give a sh*t about the money I gave Tesla. And they will too when they have to pay outside counsel to show up in my city and litigate the suit I file. If for some reason I don’t prevail, they will have spent far, far more in legal fees than they took from me.

Very true. Any reasonable attorney will see the merit in the suit, and file, and the plaintiff will prevail. It really is that cut and dry. Total and pure fraud by Tesla. AP2 still isn't as good as AP1, and EAP/FSD will NEVER happen as It was advertised.

All you need to do is show the FSD demo video, and ask if this car is actually capable of doing what is shown in the video, and can the judge see a live demo?

 

[calisnow]

...they screw over the same customers

Nobody got screwed - they completed a mutually agreeable transaction, voluntarily. I don't have an uncorked 75D - I'd love one but I thought my car was a fair trade for the money I paid at the time. If Tesla chooses to make a paid uncork upgrade available I might buy one. Til then - God don't it suck bein' privileged but not AS privileged as the guy who bought on July 1? lol

These poor people...

FAIL

have tried the whole executive escalation process and don't even get a courtesy of a response. It's painful to read those posts.

Wrong. This is painful:

This machine going 0-60 in 5.4 seconds is not painful:

This all just says a lot about Tesla's integrity and their relationship with customers and owners.

No. It says a lot about an undeserved sense of entitlement.

 

[calisnow]

I give a sh*t about the money I gave Tesla. And they will too when they have to pay outside counsel to show up in my city and litigate the suit I file. If for some reason I don’t prevail, they will have spent far, far more in legal fees than they took from me.

Please keep us informed as to the status of your litigation efforts.

 

[calisnow]

Very true. Any reasonable attorney will see the merit in the suit, and file, and the plaintiff will prevail. It really is that cut and dry. Total and pure fraud by Tesla. AP2 still isn't as good as AP1, and EAP/FSD will NEVER happen as It was advertised.

All you need to do is show the FSD demo video, and ask if this car is actually capable of doing what is shown in the video, and can the judge see a live demo?

@oktane's gettin' feisty again with the legal claims he has so far failed to back up with action. C'mon man - sue 'em! Let's see you do it and prevail!

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I thought oktane got banned. Did he sue TMC to get reinstated?

 

[buttershrimp]

Nobody got screwed - they completed a mutually agreeable transaction, voluntarily. I don't have an uncorked 75D - I'd love one but I thought my car was a fair trade for the money I paid at the time. If Tesla chooses to make a paid uncork upgrade available I might buy one. Til then - God don't it suck bein' privileged but not AS privileged as the guy who bought on July 1? lol



FAIL




Wrong. This is painful:

View attachment 254874

This machine going 0-60 in 5.4 seconds is not painful:

View attachment 254875




No. It says a lot about an undeserved sense of entitlement.

@calisnow speaks some truth, and brings great perspective to the disillusioned....

“But when Odysseus rose, that man of many devices, fixing his down-cast eyes on the ground he stood: nor his scepter swayed, either this way or that like a practiced speaker, but held it motionless, even as a man unskilled in the arts of persuasion. One would declare him mute with passion or wanting in judgment. But when he spoke, when his powerful voice went forth from his bosom, issuing words which fell like flakes of snow in winter, surely no mortal man might hope to compete with Odysseus. Lost in wonder we sat, but not, as before, at his manner.”

― Homer

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Very true. Any reasonable attorney will see the merit in the suit, and file, and the plaintiff will prevail. It really is that cut and dry. Total and pure fraud by Tesla. AP2 still isn't as good as AP1, and EAP/FSD will NEVER happen as It was advertised.

All you need to do is show the FSD demo video, and ask if this car is actually capable of doing what is shown in the video, and can the judge see a live demo?

"I consider autonomous driving to be a basically solved problem"
-Elon Musk

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Nobody got screwed - they completed a mutually agreeable transaction, voluntarily.

One party (Tesla) had more information, though, on what's coming next - and was known to apply pressure to close the deal within the previous quarter for their own benefit.

Sure, the customer could have said we'll wait until next quarter to take delivery. Maybe the lesson here is that every Tesla buyer should.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Did you just call me a bot? Buttershrimp has feelings too.... do you think I am dead inside like @AnxietyRanger or something?

It's understandable considering the sweet employee discount you will get from Audi.

FYI I am not dead inside (nor employed in the car industry at all), so I do find these kinds of comments hurtful.

 

[182RG]

then Tesla will have done the rational thing by lying back in 2016. And nobody will give a sh*t about the AP2 owners left in the lurch - except the forgotten AP2 owners. History marches on - get over it.

So, lying is OK to keep the stock price propped up, capital markets available, and to provide funding to bail out a financially ailing business, run by family members? Contribute to this, for the greater good, and “get over it” if you get screwed by it? Did I get that right?

I have to hand it to you @calisnow. It takes courage to admit that it’s OK for a business to lie, cheat, and steal from its customers.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla will have done the rational thing by lying back in 2016. And nobody will give a sh*t about the AP2 owners left in the lurch - except the forgotten AP2 owners. History marches on - get over it.

Wow, there's some candor. You may be right, that this is how it will play down. After all, most P85D and P90DL owners have had no recourse for their troubles and history marches on leaving those wounded by it on the wayside.

We shall see how many Tesla customers are willing to just get over it, though.

 

[jjh1234]

It's not about being blasé. You hate the car, as you've made more than clear. *Why are you still driving a car you hate?* It's a serious question that deserves a serious answer. You can at any point in time sell it and get a different one. Why haven't you? Are you a masochist who's trying to punish themselves needlessly?

And for the record, 3-6 month depreciation is usually 10-15%, not 20/30/40+% that "tens of thousands" implies - but that's neither here nor there, and is not a reason to avoid the above question: why are you torturing yourself with a car you hate? I really want to know the answer to that.

More like 30%. I've owned almost 30 cars in my life and tend to trade/sell every year or two. High end cars are even worse, especially in the first year or two. My 6 month old $80,000 2016 MS75D is worth $55,000 on trade right now.

 

[davidc18]

For reference, down here in Florida, there have been a total of 3 lemon law cases. Tesla did not send any lawyers to the hearings. They sent David Morgan (Dania Service Center manager) to one, one of the Dania SC mechanics to the second and they did not show up to the third hearing. The consumers prevailed in all 3 cases. Having read the files, I would say the bar to getting your car repurchased in FL is set pretty low.

 

[Swift]

Wrong. This is painful:

View attachment 254874

You’re a quality guy. Comparing this to the horror of what is going on down in PR right now for so many.

 

[Swift]

Please keep us informed as to the status of your litigation efforts.

Sure thing unless there’s a confidentiality clause in my settlement with them. You should keep an eye on the class action(s) too.

 

[MrAustraliaTax]

Now, who wants some cocaine?

Yes please. Could you have your AP2 FSD deliver it so as to not arouse any suspicions.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You’re a quality guy. Comparing this to the horror of what is going on down in PR right now for so many.

It is called the fallacy of relative privation ("not as bad as") – dismissing an argument or complaint due to the existence of more important problems in the world, regardless of whether those problems bear relevance to the initial argument.

@buttershrimp is doing similar things - the attacks against me are also, e.g.: Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument. Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says. Abusive fallacy – a subtype of ad hominem that verbally abuses the opponent rather than arguing about the originally proposed argument. Appeal to motive – a subtype of ad hominem that dismisses an idea by questioning the motives of its proposer.

Quotes from the beloved Wikipedia, which means this message adheres to the fallacy of appeal to authority.

 

[calisnow]

I give a sh*t about the money I gave Tesla.

I acknowledge you care about yourself. This is irrelevant to Tesla's success.

And they will too when they have to pay outside counsel to ... litigate the suit I file.

No, they won't care. You're just a cost of doing business - nothing more. Decisions in business boil down to expected value. Let's say I take $3,000 of your money for an option I never deliver (and I have a wiggle-out clause of debatable value inserted in the sale). For 100 sales, say 10 threaten litigation. Of the 10 who threaten, 1 follows through. Assign odds of success to each case which litigates at 50%. Assign odds of settlement pre-trial of each case 90%. Assign value of settlement + cost of attorney to negotiate settlement = $10,000. Assign value of successful customer litigation (ie case goes to trial) of $20,000. So - what's the value of 100 customers who buy FSD at $3,000?

Expected value of the revenue of 100 sales of FSD @ $3,000 purchase price =

100 * $3,000 - ((0.1 * 0.5 * $20,000) + (0.9 * $10,000)) = $300,000 - $1,000 - $9,000 = $290,000

*Yes I realize that litigation costs do not affect revenue but that's an accounting distinction. I'm just trying to make a point about expected value here.

Change the variables if you like. Tesla still wins.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@calisnow is of course right. That's quite possibly Tesla's thinking for you, very well presented. What a fun company, if so.

Now, @calisnow is of course also describing the reason for the existence of class action. Alone, individual customers are pretty powerless.

 

[Swift]

I acknowledge you care about yourself. This is irrelevant to Tesla's success. No, they won't care. You're just a cost of doing business - nothing more. Everything in life comes down to expected value.... So - what's the value of 100 customers who buy FSD at $3,000...Change the variables if you like. Tesla still wins.

More quality commentary.

Since as you say previously, 35,000 purchased FSD, there’s a pretty damn good class action there when Elon doesn’t deliver Level 5 on those cars. Add lawyers fees, negative PR, etc and I really don’t see Tesla winning. Notice how Elon has completely stopped tweeting about AP and FSD...