Has anyone ever gotten Tesla Service to replace a battery due to degradation?

[chr2]

I'm engaged with Tesla Service on the drastic range drop my 2018 Model 3 LR is experiencing. 3.5 years and 89k miles in, I'm down to barely 200 miles in summer for a full charge and as low as 150 miles in winter. I requested service and after several rounds of email with Tesla Service, it's becoming apparent that they would rather not replace a battery that's now providing at best 64% of original range, well below the minimum 70% of original specified in the Tesla warranty.

Tesla Service replied first with a boilerplate explanation with supporting URLs on how to get more out of a battery (preconditioning battery before charge, winter driving tips, etc). When that didn't dissuade me, then began a slow reveal of some semisecret arithmetic that Tesla Service is apparently using to "prove" that a battery is actually getting more mileage than a driver gets by driving.

Here's the gist: Tesla Service factors in additional miles that the battery supposedly would have provided if a driver does any of the following: drives above 65 mph, launches "aggressively", uses the cabin heater, uses a USB device. There may be others; these are the actions the technician used to tack mileage onto the actual amount I obtained over the last 3 weeks.

For example: I drove 69 miles in a recent week. Tesla stacked on an additional:
• 62 miles for 67% of the driving time being at or above 65 mph
• 15 miles for cabin heating
• 4 miles for USB accessory use

So voila! I didn't use just 62 miles of range that week ... I used 131!! I used more than double the actual mileage by daring to drive above 65 mph with the heater at times and a USB drive plugged in for the dashcam. Live and learn, right?

So I'd love to know if:
A. anyone else has encountered this magical battery math from Tesla?
B. anyone has ever gotten a battery range service claim acted upon with battery replacement?

Thank you, kind Tesla community

 

[glide]

I'm engaged with Tesla Service on the drastic range drop my 2018 Model 3 LR is experiencing. 3.5 years and 89k miles in, I'm down to barely 200 miles in summer for a full charge and as low as 150 miles in winter. I requested service and after several rounds of email with Tesla Service, it's becoming apparent that they would rather not replace a battery that's now providing at best 64% of original range, well below the minimum 70% of original specified in the Tesla warranty.

Tesla Service replied first with a boilerplate explanation with supporting URLs on how to get more out of a battery (preconditioning battery before charge, winter driving tips, etc). When that didn't dissuade me, then began a slow reveal of some semisecret arithmetic that Tesla Service is apparently using to "prove" that a battery is actually getting more mileage than a driver gets by driving.

Here's the gist: Tesla Service factors in additional miles that the battery supposedly would have provided if a driver does any of the following: drives above 65 mph, launches "aggressively", uses the cabin heater, uses a USB device. There may be others; these are the actions the technician used to tack mileage onto the actual amount I obtained over the last 3 weeks.

For example: I drove 69 miles in a recent week. Tesla stacked on an additional:
• 62 miles for 67% of the driving time being at or above 65 mph
• 15 miles for cabin heating
• 4 miles for USB accessory use

So voila! I didn't use just 62 miles of range that week ... I used 131!! I used more than double the actual mileage by daring to drive above 65 mph with the heater at times and a USB drive plugged in for the dashcam. Live and learn, right?

So I'd love to know if:
A. anyone else has encountered this magical battery math from Tesla?
B. anyone has ever gotten a battery range service claim acted upon with battery replacement?

Thank you, kind Tesla community

That is total BS. I would suggest tying a deferent Service Center if you have one near you. If that fails you may want to hire an attorney and/or request arbitration since you are still under warranty.

Seriously. You’re not supposed to use the cabin heater? They can F right off.

 

[Nosken]

What range did it show at 100% when new, and what does it show now, at 100%
Yes, I know that is not the range you will get, but it helps indicat the level of degradation.
Your anecdotal drives provide very little comparative insight.

 

[DOCAL]

What range did it show at 100% when new, and what does it show now, at 100%
Yes, I know that is not the range you will get, but it helps indicat the level of degradation.
Your anecdotal drives provide very little comparative insight.

Absolutely this.

I would like to see all EV companies put out a clear public info page that explained what conditions they used to determine a rated mile, and include a chart with energy used per mile at various speeds and conditions, along with info about how much energy things such as the heating and cooling used, and also the idle power usage (the base load from the computers).

Right now people see "range 300 miles" and assume they can drive 300 miles on a full charge, which in most cases isn't true*. Throw in some heater usage, speed higher than whatever they used for a rated mile, some rain, some elevation change, a headwind etc and it'll be far less.

*On my old commute I used to nearly always get higher than rated range in the summer, due warm weather and sucky traffic.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm engaged with Tesla Service on the drastic range drop my 2018 Model 3 LR is experiencing. 3.5 years and 89k miles in, I'm down to barely 200 miles in summer for a full charge and as low as 150 miles in winter. I requested service and after several rounds of email with Tesla Service, it's becoming apparent that they would rather not replace a battery that's now providing at best 64% of original range, well below the minimum 70% of original specified in the Tesla warranty.

Tesla Service replied first with a boilerplate explanation with supporting URLs on how to get more out of a battery (preconditioning battery before charge, winter driving tips, etc). When that didn't dissuade me, then began a slow reveal of some semisecret arithmetic that Tesla Service is apparently using to "prove" that a battery is actually getting more mileage than a driver gets by driving.

Here's the gist: Tesla Service factors in additional miles that the battery supposedly would have provided if a driver does any of the following: drives above 65 mph, launches "aggressively", uses the cabin heater, uses a USB device. There may be others; these are the actions the technician used to tack mileage onto the actual amount I obtained over the last 3 weeks.

For example: I drove 69 miles in a recent week. Tesla stacked on an additional:
• 62 miles for 67% of the driving time being at or above 65 mph
• 15 miles for cabin heating
• 4 miles for USB accessory use

So voila! I didn't use just 62 miles of range that week ... I used 131!! I used more than double the actual mileage by daring to drive above 65 mph with the heater at times and a USB drive plugged in for the dashcam. Live and learn, right?

So I'd love to know if:
A. anyone else has encountered this magical battery math from Tesla?
B. anyone has ever gotten a battery range service claim acted upon with battery replacement?

Thank you, kind Tesla community

This sounds somewhat like you are asking them to replace your battery based on how far you can actually go on a charge (how many miles) vs what the car charges to or how much battery storage is available.

How far you can actually drive is completely irrelevant to getting your battery replaced. Its absolutely true that the mileage meter does not show all electricity used.

Calculate your battery capacity using the cars information using the information we have in the stickied thread in the model 3 subforum:

Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen

Re posting here and making this a sticky post so it doesnt get lost. @AlanSubie4Life originally posted: =========================================== (originally posted by @AlanSubie4Life. Original thread this appeared in can be found here: ( 2021 model Y scan my Tesla battery size)...

teslamotorsclub.com

Avoid any and all conversations with tesla about how far you can actually drive as that is not relevant at all to the battery warranty (and you will get absolutely NO WHERE discussing "I can only drive 150 miles on a full charge in the winter" with tesla, as that is not relevant to the battery warranty).

The car likely started with a 75kW battery storage. See what it says now calculating it from the information in that thread. If that shows up as roughly 52kW or less, then you have a battery claim. If it doesnt, you dont. I am betting it doesnt show that, and is likely 60-65% but you can tell us.

 

[ucmndd]

All of these sorts of posts are so carefully crafted to avoid saying what range the car actually displays at 100%.

 

[nativewolf]

All of these sorts of posts are so carefully crafted to avoid saying what range the car actually displays at 100%.

Yes and thus seem to have appeared from under a bridge.

 

[ucmndd]

That is total BS. I would suggest tying a deferent Service Center if you have one near you. If that fails you may want to hire an attorney and/or request arbitration since you are still under warranty.

Seriously. You’re not supposed to use the cabin heater? They can F right off.

No service center is going to provide a different answer to the question being asked, which is “can I get a replacement battery because I can’t manage to make my car get EPA estimated efficiency?”

The answer to that question is an unequivocal no. There is no warranty for “I can’t get EPA efficiency numbers.”

 

[chr2]

This sounds somewhat like you are asking them to replace your battery based on how far you can actually go on a charge (how many miles) vs what the car charges to or how much battery storage is available.

How far you can actually drive is completely irrelevant to getting your battery replaced. Its absolutely true that the mileage meter does not show all electricity used.

Yes, I am asking them to give me a battery with the energy capacity "at least equal to that of the original Battery", as the warranty says. I guess I sort've understand the kind of reasoning that says this is completely irrelevant to how far I can drive, even though vehicle range is the whole point of a vehicle battery. Hey, I'm willing to get behind whatever process and discussion restores my battery to somewhere near where it was in 2018.

 

[chr2]

What range did it show at 100% when new, and what does it show now, at 100%
Yes, I know that is not the range you will get, but it helps indicat the level of degradation

Well, as this is Jan 2022, not June 2018 when I picked up the battery and the rest of the car, it's not possible to show my personal battery's range at 100%. So all I can do is assume my M3 LR's battery was providing the same 310 mile range as Tesla specs say all new M3 LRs provided at that time, yes?

 

[AAKEE]

Well, as this is Jan 2022, not June 2018 when I picked up the battery and the rest of the car, it's not possible to show my personal battery's range at 100%. So all I can do is assume my M3 LR's battery was providing the same 310 mile range as Tesla specs say all new M3 LRs provided at that time, yes?

You should provide us with a screen shot of the battery percentage, the energy app showing wh/mi or wh/km and range, this should be for the ”normal range” selection and maybe the longest(30mi? / 50km)choice. All this from the same time.
The SOC for this should be 70% or higher if possible. The range at the battery meter also could be nice, but not necessary.

With this we can calculate the remaining capacity of the battery. It will be the calculated capacity by the BMS, which should be good enough to judge the situation.

 

[ucmndd]

Yes, I am asking them to give me a battery with the energy capacity "at least equal to that of the original Battery", as the warranty says.

This phrase in the warranty doesn’t at all mean what you think it does.

This statement says that IF Tesla replaces your battery under warranty because of a failure, they owe you a replacement battery that has at least as much capacity as the battery they just replaced.

Meaning: if they replace a 3 year old battery that had lost 10% of its original capacity prior to the failure and shows a 100% charge of 279 miles, the replacement battery they give you under warranty must charge to 279 miles or more.

Hey, I'm willing to get behind whatever process and discussion restores my battery to somewhere near where it was in 2018.

There is no such process. All batteries degrade over time. The only relevant number here is the one you have yet to provide: how many rated miles does your car/app currently show when charged to 100%? If that number is >70% of your car’s advertised rated range when new, the discussion is over.

 

[Nosken]

A very helpful piece of data would be to let the battery run down very low, and then charge it to 100% and see what the rated range is at that point. It is not perfectly accurate but at least gives some information that is vitally missing.
This will tell you more about the battery than any of your anecdotal drives.

 

[AAKEE]

Like this:

222x199/0.55= 80.3kWh remaining capacity.
Full pack when new 82.1, so some 2.2% degradation.

A deep look into the Battery Management system shows that the BMS estimates the capacity to 80.4kWh.
The small difference comes from rounding errors like whole percent etc. and can be minimized by using high SOC during the collection of the data.

Using the exact same principle will show the approximate degradation and if there is a need to dig deeper.

 

[chr2]

This phrase in the warranty doesn’t at all mean what you think it does.

This statement says that IF Tesla replaces your battery under warranty because of a failure, they owe you a replacement battery that has at least as much capacity as the battery they just replaced.

Meaning: if they replace a 3 year old battery that had lost 10% of its original capacity prior to the failure and shows a 100% charge of 279 miles, the replacement battery they give you under warranty must charge to 279 miles or more.


There is no such process. All batteries degrade over time. The only relevant number here is the one you have yet to provide: how many rated miles does your car/app currently show when charged to 100%? If that number is >70% of your car’s advertised rated range when new, the discussion is over.

 

[chr2]

You should provide us with a screen shot of the battery percentage, the energy app showing wh/mi or wh/km and range, this should be for the ”normal range” selection and maybe the longest(30mi? / 50km)choice. All this from the same time.
The SOC for this should be 70% or higher if possible. The range at the battery meter also could be nice, but not necessary.

With this we can calculate the remaining capacity of the battery. It will be the calculated capacity by the BMS, which should be good enough to judge the situation.

9Buck Hill Falls, PA
11 minutes agohttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/ /tmc/posts/6282926/

so if I understand the applicable math here, my battery is getting 56% of the expected rated range, yes? Which would be substantially underperforming the warranted 70% level, yes?

 

[ucmndd]

so if I understand the applicable math here, my battery is getting 56% of the expected rated range, yes? Which would be substantially underperforming the warranted 70% level, yes?

No.

That picture shows your car currently charges to 471km at 100%. Brand new, your car charged to ~499km (310 miles).

Thus, your battery has degraded a little less than 6%. Tesla will replace your battery under warranty when you hit 30% (Less than 350km rated range when charged to 100%).

How far you actually drive, and the efficiency you achieve, is completely meaningless from the perspective of the warranty.

 

[AAKEE]

so if I understand the applicable math here, my battery is getting 56% of the expected rated range, yes? Which would be substantially underperforming the warranted 70% level, yes?

We need the pictures out of the car. Apps can show faulty values.

First, 56% driving efficiency means that you only get 56% of the rated range for each unit of energy. This driving is probably due to low ambient temps or highway driving or both. It means that you use much more energy than when the car was EPA tested.
To reach the EPA rated range ypu should do the run on a day with average summer temps without heating, and you need to drive carefully. ( in your app tou need to drive so carefully that driving efficiency reach 100%.

If we try to sort your picture( despite aops can be…wrong):

71% SOC and 334 km rated range.

334/0.71= 470km.

470 km range for a 2018 LR that was 499km new(?) is very good. Seems like less than 10% degradation which is good).

But you really need to use the cars data from the screen, as apps not always shows the correct values.

 

[jjrandorin]

View attachment 751797


9Buck Hill Falls, PA
11 minutes agohttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc//tmc/posts/6282926/

so if I understand the applicable math here, my battery is getting 56% of the expected rated range, yes? Which would be substantially underperforming the warranted 70% level, yes?

No (and third party apps like stats or any other not definitive). Do the calculations in the link that I provided and post a screenshot. I am betting you will find you are no where near 70% degradation.

You are making the (very faulty) assumption that, at some point you could drive 310 actual miles in your car, driving exactly like you are driving now, and that was not the case. I already provided the link to show how much actual storage your battery has. If you dont want to do the calculations, post a screenshot here of the information FROM THE CAR as that link explains and we can do it for you.

Back to your thread question. Based on what you have provided so far (which isnt much actually) there is "less than zero" chance you are eligible for a battery replacement, and like @ucmndd said, if you ever hit that threshhold, the warranty states you will get a battery with at least as much storage as the one they replaced, not new.

You can read it yourself. It specifically spells out, in plain english, that replacement may not restore to "like new" condition. In any case, you almost assuredly are no where near 70% degradation, and frankly, tesla constantly responding to people who say some variation of "I can only drive 150 miles in the winter at freeway speeds, my battery is defective" is one reason why tesla employees ignore anyone at all with battery claims.

I realize this sounds like I am somehow saying tesla can do no wrong, and thats not it. Thats not what this is. This is someone saying "my car doesnt get epa range, look at this third party app that says I have 56% efficiency" (and efficiency is not battery capacity, its a made up statistic by the app developer), and then trying to get tesla to replace the battery.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf

(relevant text from page 7 of the tesla new vehicle warranty)

 

[Brando]

Sadly we have no idea how the owner treated their battery. And we have no idea if current battery performance is a hardship for the owner/driver.
How many commute 150 - 300 miles per day in winter ? no replies expected, just food for thought.