Has uncorking made other owners jaded?

[S100D]

We can agree to disagree, you are arguing for the sake of arguing. It’s clear that you don’t care what happens with others cars and that’s fine. But if you dig deep, I’m sure you can figure out why others might care.

BBB, thanks for your support!

 

[whitex]

WhiteX, I think you need to read the heading of this thread, "Has uncorking made other owners jaded?". I was expressing how I feel and I do not resent S75D owners getting a performance improvement. If you read the last sentence of my response, "Yes the Tesla is the best car I have ever owned, but I am not happy with some of Tesla's decisions", at no time does anything in my response say that I resent other people.

There is an expression that opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one. My response only said that I was disappointed that the performance improvement could not be done on my car and that I am not happy with some of Tesla's decisions. It is a shame that you cannot read other people's messages and not go nuclear on them. Your rant on Bitcoins made me laugh and I appreciate your humor.

Sorry if my response read as a criticism, or if I misread whether or not you were jaded - maybe my reading was colored by so many other people elsewhere on this forum complaining how the car and/or pricing changed after they bought and how they feel entitled to compensation. My post was meant to be more as an advice on how to avoid being disappointed in life. The pragmatic approach of making decisions based on available information and not second guessing them (especially if you cannot change anything), along with not allowing what others have or get change how I appreciate things, has worked well for me in life. I was using the bitcoin example as a humorous hyperbole to illustrate a point, but in case you are wondering - no, I never owned a single bitcoin in my life, nor am I advocating it as a an investment. The example is true though, buy a brand new Tesla in Jan 2017 or be a millionaire by Dec 2017 . 20:20 hindsight of course.

 

[S100D]

Sorry if my response read as a criticism, or if I misread whether or not you were jaded - maybe my reading was colored by so many other people elsewhere on this forum complaining how the car and/or pricing changed after they bought and how they feel entitled to compensation. My post was meant to be more as an advice on how to avoid being disappointed in life. The pragmatic approach of making decisions based on available information and not second guessing them (especially if you cannot change anything), along with not allowing what others have or get change how I appreciate things, has worked well for me in life. I was using the bitcoin example as a humorous hyperbole to illustrate a point, but in case you are wondering - no, I never owned a single bitcoin in my life, nor am I advocating it as a an investment. The example is true though, buy a brand new Tesla in Jan 2017 or be a millionaire by Dec 2017 . 20:20 hindsight of course.

Whitex thanks for your reply. I traded my S85D in on the S90D on 12/27/17 so I am very happy with my Tesla. I agree that there are many haters that spew their venom on TMC. I am not one of those and get tired of reading the very negative messages.

My S90D is the best car I have ever owned.

I wish you the best!

 

[seclinton]

Uncorked or not, my P85 is a bad ass lookin S, performs like one would expect, and I’ll never shed a tear behind the wheel of it.

No resentment, just one ask, let us customize the UI!

 

[Mediocrates]

I understand the points he is making. I just feel like he is projecting his own perspective and mentality onto everyone else. There are a myriad of ways people can react to situations like this and I don't believe there is one right way. People are allowed to feel and have emotional reactions as they deem fit.

My post was meant to be more as an advice on how to avoid being disappointed in life. The pragmatic approach of making decisions based on available information and not second guessing them (especially if you cannot change anything), along with not allowing what others have or get change how I appreciate things, has worked well for me in life.

What @whitex said is crucial here, and it opens up the point that a lot of people probably don't consider.

It's not about a "right" or "wrong" way to emotionally react. It's about how you want to react. Is there value in having a feeling of betrayal, disappointment, frustration, or some other response that is fundamentally based in anger? Is this improving the quality of life?

I can't speak for @whitex, but I very rarely have emotional reactions based in anger, and it makes me keenly aware of just how prevalent those reactions are in most people. I hardly ever see it improving the quality of their lives, and I think essentially everyone would receive benefit from being at a greater state of peace. We all benefit every time someone achieves a greater state of peace.

 

[Xenius]

What @whitex said is crucial here, and it opens up the point that a lot of people probably don't consider.

It's not about a "right" or "wrong" way to emotionally react. It's about how you want to react. Is there value in having a feeling of betrayal, disappointment, frustration, or some other response that is fundamentally based in anger? Is this improving the quality of life?

I can't speak for @whitex, but I very rarely have emotional reactions based in anger, and it makes me keenly aware of just how prevalent those reactions are in most people. I hardly ever see it improving the quality of their lives, and I think essentially everyone would receive benefit from being at a greater state of peace. We all benefit every time someone achieves a greater state of peace.

Hear, hear!

I'm happy each and everytime I see a new Tesla on the road. Whether it's the douchebag lawyer making gobs of money for no societal value (imaginary person here, please none of you lawyers come after me) buying a fully tricked out P100DL like it's nothing, or the person who was going to buy a mini van for the family but then decides to stretch and get a "poor man's" Tesla (see my car!) to help support the mission. Was I disappointed when I took delivery of my brand new car in August '16 and it was made obsolete by hardware 2.0 two months later? Hell no, I'd already been driving around with a big *sugar* eating grin for two months by that point.

I won't even get into AP 2.0 issues

I hope everyone who is driving around with that awesome "T" emblem on the back of their car can appreciate what an awesome piece of technology it is, and it's a wonder it even exists at this point. Whether it's a 2012 S40, or a 2017 P100DL, it's awesome.

Please enjoy your cars folks, and if you don't, please give it to my wife so I can start driving my car again!

 

[wdolson]

This thread reminds me of the old saying "keeping up with the Joneses and looking down on Smith". Just from what we already coming. The P100D crowd will be whining soon enough that they don't have the quickest car anymore. The Roadster will also practically double the longest range car currently available. The early Model 3 and original Model S 60 owners have to put up with the fact that there is a semi quicker than their car.

For most of our lives automotive technology has inched along. The model year system is something the car companies locked into fairly early on and they used to do a lot of changes every year, but starting in the 80s it became tougher and tougher to tell one model year from another. Few people can tell a 1984 Corolla from a 1985. While it isn't difficult to tell the difference between a 1966 and 1967 Chevrolet Impala with a little knowledge of the cars of the era.

Someone who knows a fair bit about cars can make an educated guess of the general era of a car from the last 30 years (like it's between a 92 and a 96...), but beyond that with some cars even the people who designed them can't tell model years apart.

Then along comes a company that has announced their primary purpose is to disrupt the car market, and people complain when they get a car that is now a year or two behind the bleeding edge. I have news for you, it's only going to get worse. Within a year the large battery Model S may 400+ miles of range and all may have a new interior. It's also possible the price will drop from where it is now. All of those could be wrong, in either a wildly conservative or wildly optimistic direction.

That's the thing with Tesla. You never know what the future holds other than looking down on Smith is pretty easy if you are so inclined. In just the last 10 days I have probably thought about how nice my car is over other cars I've had to deal with. I wasn't gloating, I was just glad I wasn't standing out in the cold fueling my car, or I had to tell my SO to shut off the carcinogens before I would put air in the tires of her friend's car (it had been parked in the driveway for a week and was spewing noxious gasses, it literally is hazardous to your health to breath that stuff!), and other things along those lines.

Not once have I thought I was worse off because I have an 18 month old car with shorter range and less 0-60 time than the latest and greatest, or even have the latest autopilot hardware.

Someday it might be nice to get an AP2 (or AP3 car if that's the thing then) and have enough range to drive all day on a road trip with maybe just one lunch stop. It might be nice to have a few improvements to the interior too. But I definitely couldn't afford another Model S right now. I may never have that kind of spare money again. Who knows what the future will hold?

I'm fortunate to have what I do and I prefer to hold an attitude of gratitude rather than any bad feelings about what I don't have. When we went to the market a week or so back, I noticed a homeless woman settling down for the night in a corner created by the trim on the front of the market meeting the store next door. I thought, here I am pulling up in this expensive car and she's suffering one of the worst things people in our culture may have to face at some point in their lives. It's possible she did something to put herself there, but people become homeless due to circumstances beyond their control too.

 

[whitex]

TFew people can tell a 1984 Corolla from a 1985. While it isn't difficult to tell the difference between a 1966 and 1967 Chevrolet Impala with a little knowledge of the cars of the era.

In all fairness, can you tell the vintage and/or model difference between these 2 Tesla's below? Both are my cars and I gotta tell you I could not tell (one is a 2013 S60, the other 2015 P85D). From the front, the only difference I can find is AP hardware which was not there in 2013, but that is a small detail only a Tesla fan would be able to spot. We also have a 2017 which looks identical from this angle other than the slipstream wheels and body colored mounding along the bottom. From the front of course AP2 hardware and no nosecone, still not a huge difference.

 

[wdolson]

In all fairness, can you tell the vintage and/or model difference between these 2 Tesla's below? Both are my cars and I gotta tell you I could not tell (one is a 2013 S60, the other 2015 P85D). From the front, the only difference I can find is AP hardware which was not there in 2013, but that is a small detail only a Tesla fan would be able to spot. We also have a 2017 which looks identical from this angle other than the slipstream wheels and body colored mounding along the bottom. From the front of course AP2 hardware and no nosecone, still not a huge difference.

View attachment 264841

True the outside hasn't changed much, but the internals have changed a lot. If you're looking for spare parts for a 1984 Corolla, just about all the parts are the same for a range of years, but Tesla changes parts so often there can be major differences more than once in a calendar year.

I think Tesla does change things too often. They are compounding maintenance headaches down in the future. I read an article about how Germans, Americans, and the Russians made tanks in WW II. The Russian tanks were poorly built with materials that were only intended to get the job done and no longer. The transmissions on the T-34 had a MTBF of 1500 hours and the quality of the welds was often horrible.

The Americans were focused on large quantities of a bit better quality. The build quality was much better and even the parts were often good quality. In the WW II vintage vehicle market American trucks are dirt cheap while trucks from every other country cost a fortune because the trucks were so well made the collecters market is flooded with them. There aren't quite as many American tanks, but that's only because there were fewer uses for them after the war and a lot got scrapped. Even when combat experience showed American tanks were falling behind the curve vs German designs, the US kept making pretty much the same tank because that was the American philosophy of the time. Design something good enough and make a lot of it.

The Germans on the other hand made their tanks a bit like Tesla has done with the Model S/X. They were making changes so often that tanks 3 or 4 apart on the production line could have several noticeable differences. They were constantly seeking the perfect engineering design and disrupting both production and future maintenance to do it.

Tesla is changing with the Model 3 and they will be standardizing production and will probably start doing some kind of model year thing like other car makers. I expect the S and X to get more standardized too. It will make production a lot cheaper.

The problem is if buyers then know when Tesla is going to update the car, sales will plummet in the months before the new version comes out. Other car makers don't have that problem as much because except for maybe 1 refreshed car and 1 all new car, next year's car is going to pretty much be the same as this year's car. And they have sales on left over cars from the previous year in the fall. Other car makers also don't build many cars to order, so they just keep cranking out a mix of car option mixes they think will sell and unload them on dealers.

When the Model S and X are not critical to the survival of the company, maybe they can take a hit on orders between model years. Maybe they will make something else on the same production lines (transport van based on the X possibly? or some other delivery vehicle?) and they will make those when sales for Model S and X are slow.

Right now they need to keep production of the S and X as close to maximum as possible and keeping people wondering when a new version is coming out can be frustrating for the consumer, but it keeps orders in the pipeline.

 

[whitex]

True the outside hasn't changed much, but the internals have changed a lot. If you're looking for spare parts for a 1984 Corolla, just about all the parts are the same for a range of years, but Tesla changes parts so often there can be major differences more than once in a calendar year.

I think Tesla does change things too often. They are compounding maintenance headaches down in the future. I read an article about how Germans, Americans, and the Russians made tanks in WW II. The Russian tanks were poorly built with materials that were only intended to get the job done and no longer. The transmissions on the T-34 had a MTBF of 1500 hours and the quality of the welds was often horrible.

The Americans were focused on large quantities of a bit better quality. The build quality was much better and even the parts were often good quality. In the WW II vintage vehicle market American trucks are dirt cheap while trucks from every other country cost a fortune because the trucks were so well made the collecters market is flooded with them. There aren't quite as many American tanks, but that's only because there were fewer uses for them after the war and a lot got scrapped. Even when combat experience showed American tanks were falling behind the curve vs German designs, the US kept making pretty much the same tank because that was the American philosophy of the time. Design something good enough and make a lot of it.

The Germans on the other hand made their tanks a bit like Tesla has done with the Model S/X. They were making changes so often that tanks 3 or 4 apart on the production line could have several noticeable differences. They were constantly seeking the perfect engineering design and disrupting both production and future maintenance to do it.

Tesla is changing with the Model 3 and they will be standardizing production and will probably start doing some kind of model year thing like other car makers. I expect the S and X to get more standardized too. It will make production a lot cheaper.

The problem is if buyers then know when Tesla is going to update the car, sales will plummet in the months before the new version comes out. Other car makers don't have that problem as much because except for maybe 1 refreshed car and 1 all new car, next year's car is going to pretty much be the same as this year's car. And they have sales on left over cars from the previous year in the fall. Other car makers also don't build many cars to order, so they just keep cranking out a mix of car option mixes they think will sell and unload them on dealers.

When the Model S and X are not critical to the survival of the company, maybe they can take a hit on orders between model years. Maybe they will make something else on the same production lines (transport van based on the X possibly? or some other delivery vehicle?) and they will make those when sales for Model S and X are slow.

Right now they need to keep production of the S and X as close to maximum as possible and keeping people wondering when a new version is coming out can be frustrating for the consumer, but it keeps orders in the pipeline.

Most of Tesla Model S changes over 5 years are not visible - my 2015 P85D interior looks nearly identical as the 2013 S60 as well, the differences are different rear view mirror, and next gen seats (in my case also alcantara on dash and roof, but that was available in 2013 as well, I just didn't feel it was worth the money, it came bundles with a P85D). The screen is the same, everything looks pretty much the same. The differences are bigger battery, all wheel drive, a lot more power, etc - none of those visible to the naked eye. 2017 added a console and rear USB, that's it. After we got ours, newer seats came out and available colors changed, but again, to someone not familiar with Tesla's they couldn't tell the difference.

 

[TexLaw]

It doesn't bother me in the least.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Technology does move on, perhaps faster than we are accustomed, in Tesla world. Nothing Tesla does tomorrow negates the car you have today. It's still the same car you bought and loved. Enjoy it.

 

[ohmman]

In all fairness, can you tell the vintage and/or model difference between these 2 Tesla's below? Both are my cars and I gotta tell you I could not tell (one is a 2013 S60, the other 2015 P85D). From the front, the only difference I can find is AP hardware which was not there in 2013, but that is a small detail only a Tesla fan would be able to spot. We also have a 2017 which looks identical from this angle other than the slipstream wheels and body colored mounding along the bottom. From the front of course AP2 hardware and no nosecone, still not a huge difference.

View attachment 264841

Bottom one is the 2013. No parking sensors.

But your point is absolutely valid. They both look killer.

 

[whitex]

Bottom one is the 2013. No parking sensors.

But your point is absolutely valid. They both look killer.

Great catch! I don't know how I never thought of it.

 

[selfbp]

I just hope this qualifies as hope for an equivalence of a later model (2020ish) 75D being closer to current model P100D 0-60 specs in the future if technology continues.. That sure would be a neat little treat. Yet I doubt it would remain priced same. I believe they will send the Model S branding into a full speed/luxury brand once the Roadster 2 releases. All S models across the board I could see being sub 2.7-2.3 sec 0-60, and the Model 3 will be the newer entry level speed holders around 3-4sec 0-60 times. Keep the speed in its price point category.