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Have you lost faith in Tesla?

Have you lost faith in Tesla?

  • No

    Votes: 295 59.5%
  • Nearly

    Votes: 94 19.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 107 21.6%

  • Total voters
    496
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If we want comparisons on the phone market, then maybe Tesla is Blackberry. They thought they had a USP with security and messaging (supercharging), business users, deep penetration in their chosen market and in a relatively short period of time disappeared. It can happen if you get complacent, and some (but not all) people are starting to look at a few of the Tesla attitudes to service centres, hand overs, no parking sensors, removing mobile chargers. premium connectivity, price increases and lack of options and the software (great if you like light shows, not so great if you like windscreen wipers) and starting to question them. Just take the forums, A few years ago you'd be hounded out of a Tesla forum for expressing anything but a positive view, now it seems only the owners groups try and do that.

As for BMW Nav, the voice control is so good, you rarely actually type in a destination, you don't even need to hit a button on the steering wheel to activate voice control. Using both a BMW and our Tesla in almost equal measures, the BMW nav is better. Simple as. No cases of "take the 2nd exit" when it means the 3rd, when being rerouted because of traffic it puts up the option and the time savings so you can make an informed decision, the map allows you to pick which POI you want to display, there's birds eye 3d view, you get lane guidance in the head up display. Speed limits are generally understood and followed, even has a speedcamera database that warns you as you approach (from memory I think that costs £20 a year) The only thing the Tesla has going for it is the integration with preheating the battery if you pick a destination charger, but as our BMW is petrol I wouldn;' know if the BEV versions do the same. People mistakenly thing Tesla nav is powered by Google maps in some way when it's not.
 
If we want comparisons on the phone market, then maybe Tesla is Blackberry. They thought they had a USP with security and messaging (supercharging), business users, deep penetration in their chosen market and in a relatively short period of time disappeared. It can happen if you get complacent, and some (but not all) people are starting to look at a few of the Tesla attitudes to service centres, hand overs, no parking sensors, removing mobile chargers. premium connectivity, price increases and lack of options and the software (great if you like light shows, not so great if you like windscreen wipers) and starting to question them. Just take the forums, A few years ago you'd be hounded out of a Tesla forum for expressing anything but a positive view, now it seems only the owners groups try and do that.

As for BMW Nav, the voice control is so good, you rarely actually type in a destination, you don't even need to hit a button on the steering wheel to activate voice control. Using both a BMW and our Tesla in almost equal measures, the BMW nav is better. Simple as. No cases of "take the 2nd exit" when it means the 3rd, when being rerouted because of traffic it puts up the option and the time savings so you can make an informed decision, the map allows you to pick which POI you want to display, there's birds eye 3d view, you get lane guidance in the head up display. Speed limits are generally understood and followed, even has a speedcamera database that warns you as you approach (from memory I think that costs £20 a year) The only thing the Tesla has going for it is the integration with preheating the battery if you pick a destination charger, but as our BMW is petrol I wouldn;' know if the BEV versions do the same. People mistakenly thing Tesla nav is powered by Google maps in some way when it's not.
There’s a bunch in your post that is factually incorrect here.

Ignoring that Blackberry had an awful UI and was just a Nokia on steroids with the same crappy button based UI instead of anything actually revolutionary.

The service centre issue seems moot to me. I had 2 encounters with them in my 3 years of ownership, one was at the service centre and I got a loaner S which was smooth and no complaints, the other was a mobile service visit which was even easier. Totally appreciate that isn’t everyones experience but the horror stores are definitely overblown.

Parking sensors is also overblown, most of the whining coming from people who haven‘t even collected a vehicle without them yet. I’d argue that’s nothing more than “oh my god they deleted the headphone jack” style panic circles.

They still haven’t actually removed the mobile connector, I got a new one with my new car on the 22nd December so that’s plain false.

Attitides do seem to have changed. as a new member here I find myself wondering why half the people on this forum are even here if they hate Telsa so much. Space Karen certainly isn’t helping, but the hard fact is Tesla still has a better overall package than anyone else on the market. it won’t be right for everyone, some people still love their Sony phones, but that’s fine.

BMW‘s heated seat subscription sounds fun. Not sure if that makes up for slightly better navigation. Also not sure why you seem to suggest owners saying positive things is a bad one when they’re they’re the only ones with real world experience vs people commenting based on an article they read by some blogger.
 
There’s a bunch in your post that is factually incorrect here.

Ignoring that Blackberry had an awful UI and was just a Nokia on steroids with the same crappy button based UI instead of anything actually revolutionary.

The service centre issue seems moot to me. I had 2 encounters with them in my 3 years of ownership, one was at the service centre and I got a loaner S which was smooth and no complaints, the other was a mobile service visit which was even easier. Totally appreciate that isn’t everyones experience but the horror stores are definitely overblown.

Parking sensors is also overblown, most of the whining coming from people who haven‘t even collected a vehicle without them yet. I’d argue that’s nothing more than “oh my god they deleted the headphone jack” style panic circles.

They still haven’t actually removed the mobile connector, I got a new one with my new car on the 22nd December so that’s plain false.

Attitides do seem to have changed. as a new member here I find myself wondering why half the people on this forum are even here if they hate Telsa so much. Space Karen certainly isn’t helping, but the hard fact is Tesla still has a better overall package than anyone else on the market. it won’t be right for everyone, some people still love their Sony phones, but that’s fine.

BMW‘s heated seat subscription sounds fun. Not sure if that makes up for slightly better navigation. Also not sure why you seem to suggest owners saying positive things is a bad one when they’re they’re the only ones with real world experience vs people commenting based on an article they read by some blogger.
Factually incorrect? You offer no more than opinion to refute. In the US they have removed the UMC. You’re on a different planet if you think the USS removal is overblown. Tesla stopped sending out the notifications or reservation holders due to the number of people who refused to take delivery.

People join the forum to find out information. They don’t join to be told they are wrong by people like yourself if they are frustrated with some of what’s happening at Tesla or that they’re over reacting to a 6 month wait for a new windscreen, or if wipers don’t work or AP tried to kill them by phantom braking on the motorway.

You’re also factually incorrect on heated seats at BMW. They offer a range of options ranging from outright purchase to a subscription model, and anyone leasing, or company car drivers will find the subscription option cheaper. Funny how giving people choice is bad to you.
 
Factually incorrect? You offer no more than opinion to refute. In the US they have removed the UMC.
This is a UK forum. Saying it’s been removed when it’s literally still arriving with new cars is misinformation and should be called out. The evidence is multiple posts on this forum confirming this fact and my evidence is the brand new mobile connector in my frunk.
You’re on a different planet if you think the USS removal is overblown. Tesla stopped sending out the notifications or reservation holders due to the number of people who refused to take delivery.
I say it’s overblown because I literally have a car without them and honestly haven’t noticed they’re gone. I parked for decades without them and it’s so minor as to be irrelevant to the vast majority of people. Some of course will be outraged and infuriated but that’s life.
People join the forum to find out information. They don’t join to be told they are wrong by people like yourself if they are frustrated with some of what’s happening at Tesla or that they’re over reacting to a 6 month wait for a new windscreen, or if wipers don’t work or AP tried to kill them by phantom braking on the motorway.
I’ve been called wrong a bunch, including by you just now. In fact you said I’m on a different planet, I didn’t join for that either but it doesn’t bother me. Where is this 6 month wait for a windscreen? Love to see details of that because I know 2 people in real life who had theirs replaced in under a week. Autowipers definitely could be better, but if anything they work too much and go crazy, certainly not bad enough to be a safety issue. as for phantom breaking, this is another one I find bizarre - has happed a grand total of once to me about 2 years ago and I didn’t interpret that as trying to kill me, maybe I’m just less dramatic than some.
You’re also factually incorrect on heated seats at BMW. They offer a range of options ranging from outright purchase to a subscription model, and anyone leasing, or company car drivers will find the subscription option cheaper. Funny how giving people choice is bad to you.
Yeah that was a glib comment by me in the same vein as yours, you can spin any narrative you like with cherry picked data. I don’t think having a choice is bad at all, I just find it baffling that people will sit on a Telsa forum bitching about such things. it’s not going to change anything, maybe if they were tweeting at Space Karen which has had some impact in the past, but otherwise what’s the point in the pity party. If you want a BMW get one. No one’s stopping you or anyone else from doing so other than the wait time and their lack of EV production capacity. Everyone has the choice to walk away from Tesla any time they like.
 
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This is a UK forum. Saying it’s been removed when it’s literally still arriving with new cars is misinformation and should be called out. The evidence is multiple posts on this forum confirming this fact and my evidence is the brand new mobile connector in my frunk.

I say it’s overblown because I literally have a car without them and honestly haven’t noticed they’re gone. I parked for decades without them and it’s so minor as to be irrelevant to the vast majority of people. Some of course will be outraged and infuriated but that’s life.

I’ve been called wrong a bunch, including by you just now. In fact you said I’m on a different planet, I didn’t join for that either but it doesn’t bother me. Where is this 6 month wait for a windscreen? Love to see details of that because I know 2 people in real life who had theirs replaced in under a week. Autowipers definitely could be better, but if anything they work too much and go crazy, certainly not bad enough to be a safety issue. as for phantom breaking, this is another one I find bizarre - has happed a grand total of once to me about 2 years ago and I didn’t interpret that as trying to kill me, maybe I’m just less dramatic than some.

Yeah that was a glib comment by me in the same vein as yours, you can spin any narrative you like with cherry picked data. I don’t think having a choice is bad at all, I just find it baffling that people will sit on a Telsa forum bitching about such things. it’s not going to change anything, maybe if they were tweeting at Space Karen which has had some impact in the past, but otherwise what’s the point in the pity party. If you want a BMW get one. No one’s stopping you or anyone else from doing so other than the wait time and their lack of EV production capacity. Everyone has the choice to walk away from Tesla any time they like.
If you’d been contributing to the forum over time you’d be aware


They’ve had some stock now, but waits were well over 6 months for some. Tesla have regularly had supply chain issues in the 8 years I’ve been an owner.
 
If we want comparisons on the phone market, then maybe Tesla is Blackberry.
All on hindsight of course and you might be able to apply this down the timeline at some point who knows. Tesla is not bust yet and hence merely a prediction imho.

Going back to apple.... I gave up on them (given I had a perfectly fit for purpose machine that back then) when they gave up MagSafe. A few years after they brought it back and ive now upgraded.... There is hope yet.
 
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All on hindsight of course and you might be able to apply this down the timeline at some point who knows. Tesla is not bust yet and hence merely a prediction imho.

Going back to apple.... I gave up on them (given I had a perfectly fit for purpose machine that back then) when they gave up MagSafe. A few years after they brought it back and ive now upgraded.... There is hope yet.
A few (maybe including yourself) got into a bit of a contorted argument about Nokia and were they the first to market etc which was kind of missing the point. There have been tech companies with what some, especially themselves, thought was an unassailable position. They paid the price long term. Anyone who thinks Tesla is unassailable are in danger of making the same mistake. It’s as simple as that to me.
 
If you’d been contributing to the forum over time you’d be aware

Good to see this place is so welcoming to new members. Particularly the moderators. 🙃
They’ve had some stock now, but waits were well over 6 months for some. Tesla have regularly had supply chain issues in the 8 years I’ve been an owner.
Well it’s a good job that kind kind of thing never happens to BMW. You’d never see an owner waiting months for such critical items as a door handle and it definitely wasn’t supply chain issues in a pandemic impacting all manufacturers. Nope. Just Tesla being like totally evil.
 
A few (maybe including yourself) got into a bit of a contorted argument about Nokia and were they the first to market etc which was kind of missing the point. There have been tech companies with what some, especially themselves, thought was an unassailable position. They paid the price long term. Anyone who thinks Tesla is unassailable are in danger of making the same mistake. It’s as simple as that to me.
I agree and I still have here the very first communicator which I had from new. I reminisce... Cars now becoming more of a technology thing its anyones guess where it leads. It's fair to say that innovation will win the day but dare I say that Tesla is pushing it a bit... Its been said that fortune favours the brave so lets see...
 
Parking sensors is also overblown, most of the whining coming from people who haven‘t even collected a vehicle without them yet. I’d argue that’s nothing more than “oh my god they deleted the headphone jack” style panic circles.

They still haven’t actually removed the mobile connector, I got a new one with my new car on the 22nd December so that’s plain false.

Attitides do seem to have changed. as a new member here I find myself wondering why half the people on this forum are even here if they hate Telsa so much.
Is there a prize for most valuable post on the forum? Call off the search for 2023 because we’ve nailed it on day 2.
 
Primary function function of a mobile phone was to make and receive calls...I dont think many people use it for that these days
Thats kind of my point. The primary use of a car is to get people from A to B and that hasn't changed and it won't change. Comparing to the evolution of phones is futile and shouldn't really be used in any forecast of car usage in the future.

Like I mentioned, the incredible iPod/iTunes story where it then he became a phone/music player/alarm clock etc is the marriage of 2 popular portable devices merged into one

Later, we got email, we got internet, we got better games, a camera and then on and on it went. (The original iPhone wasn't even a smartphone by the way, and had no app store)

So overall, it's primary function is......

Well, you can't even define it's primary function now

The primary function of a car remains the same however.

If Tesla FSD becomes level 5 then we are in game changer territory. That would be huge, and then we're talking about an incredible moat.

As it stands currently, it's got class leading powertrain (IMO) followed by a pick and mix of great and not so great features. My personal opinion, is that the much lauded Tesla software is severely hindered by lack of physical buttons. I like the software but I want buttons to make it better. Others are doing that bit better, despite not as good overall software package.
 
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The most surprising thing reading the last few pages for me, is that people like the iDrive system in BMW’s!

I test drove an i4 when I was deciding what EV I’d get next, it felt like every option in the infotainment system had about 3 unnecessary steps to get to it, assuming you could find it, I’d previously had an M140i before my first Tesla, don’t remember it being quite so convoluted, was over 3 years ago though. The BMW was a nice car though, if you can live with the daft grille, mega money for the options you’d want and lack of performance.

Back to the original question, I’ve not lost confidence in Tesla, having tested some other EV’s, for me personally there wasn’t something which as good all round, terrible software, lack of range/efficiency, lack of performance etc.. that’s not to say there’s not good alternatives, but they were all a compromise too far for me.

Would I have preferred to have USS, of course, is it a massive problem, no.
 
For a moderator, many of those 2600+ posts seem unduly negative about Tesla.

Sales figures continually prove many people think they’re pretty good cars…
That gets to the heart of the OP's question. Given that a long standing owner of multiple Tesla models is now 'negative' shows there is a change in people's view towards Tesla.

Although I feel his views are balanced rather than negative, and being a mod probably reads more posts to get that balanced view.
 
Thats kind of my point. The primary use of a car is to get people from A to B and that hasn't changed and it won't change. Comparing to the evolution of phones is futile and shouldn't really be used in any forecast of car usage in the future.

Like I mentioned, the incredible iPod/iTunes story where it then he became a phone/music player/alarm clock etc is the marriage of 2 popular portable devices merged into one

Later, we got email, we got internet, we got better games, a camera and then on and on it went. (The original iPhone wasn't even a smartphone by the way, and had no app store)

So overall, it's primary function is......

Well, you can't even define it's primary function now

The primary function of a car remains the same however.

If Tesla FSD becomes level 5 then we are in game changer territory. That would be huge, and then we're talking about an incredible moat.

As it stands currently, it's got class leading powertrain (IMO) followed by a pick and mix of great and not so great features. My personal opinion, is that the much lauded Tesla software is severely hindered by lack of physical buttons. I like the software but I want buttons to make it better. Others are doing that bit better, despite not as good overall software package.
Some people still get a mobile phone just for calls. Primarily much older generation just as some people still only get a car just to get fro A to B and others just choose to take public transport or other alternatives for whatever reason as to get From A to B. I dont think for a minute any of us here have bought our cars just to get from A to B as there are much cheaper alternatives and the next car has to be either on par or better.... yet they will still get you from A to B. Im sorry for the A to B repetition but as some of us would say its a about the journey not the destination.

As for FSD (non BETA), I think we are a few software and hardware revisions away specially for the this region anyway.

Not saying I disagree with you. We all have different visions and expectations and no magic ball.