Having Second Thoughts

[smorgasbord]

The car handled pretty much like my RX8.

Well, that's mighty impressive considering how much bigger Model S is. While not the smallest rear seats, the RX8 is really a 2+2 so not close to the same form factor as Model S.

I don't want or need a gigantic car

Well, that's probably the deal killer there. Model S isn't just a big 5 seater sedan, it's a huge 5 seater sedan. Great for interior room, bad for narrow roads and parking. I think I would need to get the doors Paint Armored to help resist parking lot dings from cars parked next to me.


BTW, I'm not worried about Tesla's solvency. Even if they only do 3500 cars in 2012, they'll be fine I think.

 

[kevincwelch]

I'd thought at P2860 I was late enough to see that, but it's not looking like it now.

Although the reservation agreement is not as specific as I would like it, you do have the option to defer.

 

[ckessel]

Model S isn't just a big 5 seater sedan, it's a huge 5 seater sedan.

Yea, seeing it in person and driving really drove home (no pun intended) how big the car is. Particularly the width.

Although the reservation agreement is not as specific as I would like it, you do have the option to defer.

That's a good point. A 3 month deferral might make sense for me even though it's not the delivery time frame that I'm concerned about, but rather when I'd have to lock in relative to knowing how Tesla's production ramp is doing.

 

[joefee]

I've been having some second thoughts as well, though not for the same reasons. The test drive didn't blow me away. The car handled pretty much like my RX8. I don't want or need a gigantic car, I'm really probably more in the market for something in the Gen3 size range, but the Model S is nice looking and I figured it'd be a reasonable car for me.

I'm also wary of Tesla's solvency. I don't have faith they'll ship 5k cars this year or that they'll ramp up in the way Tesla is claiming. Elon seems to be pushing the edge of running out of cash for the sake of optimizing the time to market for future cars. That's great if it works, but it's higher risk of blowing up if something causes delays. I don't want to have to lock in with unrefundable money until I see them shipping at a ramped up rate. I'd thought at P2860 I was late enough to see that, but it's not looking like it now.

Elon could fund any short term cash flow issue himself ... he did it before!

 

[Jaff]

A couple of thoughts on this smorg...


For those folks who are not currently driving electric, their "ice whines" about interior finish, etc. seem petty to me vs. the overall joy of driving a performance electric car...driving the car is the pinnacle joy for me, cupholders be damned. I guess this is why I don't understand / agree with the folks who consistently post about the Model S's interior shortcomings...in practically all cases, they do not have much of an "experience yardstick" to measure the EV vs. ICE vehicle driving experience.

For those folks who are currently driving electric (us), have we become somewhat complacent with the "fun factor / ease of use factor" of driving electric, forgetting how bad the (total) ICE vehicle driving experience really is? (in comparison, but with a great interior! :wink::biggrin

It is an interesting dichotomy to me.

Good luck with your decision and I hope you stay onboard. :smile:

 

[artsci]

Couldn't agree more. If one doesn't like the interior details and those overwhelm all other considerations about this car, don't buy it.

I for one don't care so much about what defines a "luxury" interior. Certainly not details like vanity mirrors, which almost never get used by anyone I know, including all the women who ride with me. Great seats, quiet, smoothness, terrific handling, strong acceleration, low maintenance, safety, and no fossil fuel consumption are my overwhelming concerns, so to repeat, cup holders be damned.

A couple of thoughts on this smorg...


For those folks who are not currently driving electric, their "ice whines" about interior finish, etc. seem petty to me vs. the overall joy of driving a performance electric car...driving the car is the pinnacle joy for me, cupholders be damned. I guess this is why I don't understand / agree with the folks who consistently post about the Model S's interior shortcomings...in practically all cases, they do not have much of an "experience yardstick" to measure the EV vs. ICE vehicle driving experience.

For those folks who are currently driving electric (us), have we become somewhat complacent with the "fun factor / ease of use factor" of driving electric, forgetting how bad the (total) ICE vehicle driving experience really is? (in comparison, but with a great interior! :wink::biggrin

It is an interesting dichotomy to me.

Good luck with your decision and I hope you stay onboard. :smile:

 

[bonnie]

A couple of thoughts on this smorg...


For those folks who are not currently driving electric, their "ice whines" about interior finish, etc. seem petty to me vs. the overall joy of driving a performance electric car...driving the car is the pinnacle joy for me, cupholders be damned. I guess this is why I don't understand / agree with the folks who consistently post about the Model S's interior shortcomings...in practically all cases, they do not have much of an "experience yardstick" to measure the EV vs. ICE vehicle driving experience.

For those folks who are currently driving electric (us), have we become somewhat complacent with the "fun factor / ease of use factor" of driving electric, forgetting how bad the (total) ICE vehicle driving experience really is? (in comparison, but with a great interior! :wink::biggrin

It is an interesting dichotomy to me.

Good luck with your decision and I hope you stay onboard. :smile:

Really good food for thought, Jaff. Thank you.

 

[Jeeps17]

If one doesn't like the interior details and those overwhelm all other considerations about this car, don't buy it.

I understand your point, but it really depends on everyone's needs for their car. The problem in my case is that the S is being sold as a potential 7-seater (with the rear-facing seats). That implies kids (young ones in the back). That means you NEED places to put things away (including cupholders, unfortunately). I am not advocating for minivan-like storage, nor do I want to resume the storage debate, but it seems to me that the people in the second row seats have essentially been forgotten. Comments from the passengers in the various Amped events often corroborate this idea.

Great seats, smoothness, terrific handling, strong acceleration, are my overwhelming concerns, so to repeat, cup holders be damned.

That is quite true, for the two people in the front seats. On a longer road trip, as a family car, not so sure about the rear passengers. Unfortunately for me that is one of the uses for which I am considering the S.

I do remain optimistic, as most of the things I feel are missing are small details (pockets behind the front seats, reading lights in the back, oh s**t handles in the back, etc...) and Tesla may have those coming. I otherwise quite like the minimalist interior.

 

[smorgasbord]

A couple of thoughts on this smorg...

For those folks who are not currently driving electric...

I'm a Roadster owner with over 13,000 EV miles logged, and I completely disagree that I'm being "petty."

 

[ckessel]

I for one don't care so much about what defines a "luxury" interior.

Given Tesla has stated the luxury market is what they're going after, you're not the audience they're hoping to capture. You're already captured, so to speak. If you want Tesla to succeed, you'll want to pray they address all of those interior things things you consider so minor because the folks that sit in the car in the showroom need to think the car is worth taking out for a drive.

 

[bonnie]

I'm a Roadster owner with over 13,000 EV miles logged, and I completely disagree that I'm being "petty."

I read Jaff's quote, regarding those of us already driving electric & thought this part applied to you (and to me):

For those folks who are currently driving electric (us), have we become somewhat complacent with the "fun factor / ease of use factor" of driving electric, forgetting how bad the (total) ICE vehicle driving experience really is? (in comparison, but with a great interior!

He didn't call you petty.

 

[dsm363]

To put things in perspective look at Fisker. Some would argue a beautifully designed interior with the materials, pockets and design but issues with powertrain and user interface issues as well. Tesla seems to have the opposite problem with a so far well designed powertrain and 17" screen but so so on the interior. Ideally Tesla would have nailed everything the first time around but for many they didn't. Shooting for perfection and delivering it are two separate things. I fully expect the more minor issues like interior design can be fixed much more easily than a poorly designed powertrain or car's user interface/nav screen.

 

[vfx]

,,, most of the things I feel are missing are small details (pockets behind the front seats, reading lights in the back, oh s**t handles in the back, etc...) and Tesla may have those coming. I otherwise quite like the minimalist interior.

I would think if Tesla wants the Town Car/limo market they would absolutely need to think about backseat amenities.

 

[Tommy]

A couple of thoughts; first, hats off to smorgasbord for putting to paper a list comparing the Model S strengths/weakness vs his current car. This helps take the emotional factor out of the equation and allows for sound reasons to prevail in the purchase of the Model S . This is a wise example to follow for anyone having second thoughts about their purchase of an S. I believe the non refundable deposit aspect is causing you to experience "buyer's remorse"; fortunately, in this case, it is happening before you have actually purchased the car! That is good, however you decide, you will have put that emotion to rest.

Deferring would allow you to test drive the Model S for a longer period and maybe come to terms with the weaknesses you have listed for the S.

 

[Norbert]

Given Tesla has stated the luxury market is what they're going after, you're not the audience they're hoping to capture.

Many see a difference between "premium" and "luxury". As far as I know Tesla has stated only "premium", and I'm pretty sure they don't mean that to be the same as "luxury". With "best sedan", they don't mean better than a Rolls Royce in every regard. BTW, the "every category" remark referred to the safety ratings only. (I do realize cheaper cars have vanity mirrors. However not to forget many here were complaining about headroom.)

 

[Norbert]

I'm a Roadster owner with over 13,000 EV miles logged, and I completely disagree that I'm being "petty."

However you seem quite exceptional in that you seem to say you'd be willing to spend $20k on interior (if you had the money, as I understood it).

 

[mnx]

Many see a difference between "premium" and "luxury". As far as I know Tesla has stated only "premium", and I'm pretty sure they don't mean that to be the same as "luxury". With "best sedan", they don't mean better than a Rolls Royce in every regard. BTW, the "every category" remark referred to the safety ratings only.

I'm glad you mentioned that Norbert... Some have taken the best car comment to mean best in every category instead of best all around etc...

 

[kevincwelch]

For those folks who are not currently driving electric, their "ice whines" about interior finish, etc. seem petty to me vs. the overall joy of driving a performance electric car...driving the car is the pinnacle joy for me, cupholders be damned. I guess this is why I don't understand / agree with the folks who consistently post about the Model S's interior shortcomings...in practically all cases, they do not have much of an "experience yardstick" to measure the EV vs. ICE vehicle driving experience.

I don't think it's petty at all.

If I wanted purely the electric experience, I'd go out and buy an HTEF-3.

I want a car. I want a car that will fit my family comfortably, that I will enjoy driving to work, that has certain basic things that all my other cars have. I don't think it's petty at all, thank you.

I don't want to get into any sort of discussion about how some have been driving EVs for years and are somehow more in tune to what the basic person wants/needs when it comes to electric vehicles. So, please don't imply that there is some "experience" out there that is going to make me forget all about my petty wants and needs when I slip into the driver's seat of a Model S.

I'm sure it will be great, but I drive to work. I drive to the store. I drive to events. I don't drive to drive. Maybe I will with an EV, but I bet if that ever occurs I will want a cup holder.

If Elon wants to make the best EV out there, he has. If he wants to make the best car out there, he hasn't.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

[pete8314]

... including all the women who ride with me.

Stud

Seriously though, there's a few threads discussing relatively trivial features (map-reading lights, lit vanity mirrors etc). Regardless of our opinions, most of us are not target-market. We've already signed up and bought the t-shirt (literally, in my case). Target-market are the next 30,000 orders, and many of those (as I was) will be looking for a nice car in the 'premium sedan' segment, regardless of whether it's ICE or EV. Elon's goal was always to design a car people want, the EV bit was just a happy bonus. As I've said elsewhere, my (now) wife bought her last car (before we met ), a Dodge Caliber, based on it having heated seats and a rear-wiper, whereas the Honda the lease company showed her did not. My point is, these trivial (to many of us) items can make or break a sale, and that's something that Tesla need to be more cognizant of. I suspect that if you did a line-by-line feature check of the Model S, with a similarly priced A6, 5 Series, E Class and something from Lexus, the Model S would look very under-specified. We know that's not necessarily reality, or a fair comparison, but those are exactly the comparisons that will be made.

 

[mnx]

I don't drive to drive.

Now I understand. The Model S sure does draw a very diverse set of drivers.

I primarily drive just for the fun of it since I work from home.