Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E

[gx9901]

I've followed this thread for a while and look forward to finding out what the OP end up buying. I think either car should be great for the OP and it seems that it probably just comes down to which car comes first and/or if there's going to be a tax credit for the Tesla.

I do want to add a couple of things from my experience in the MYP that I don't think have been brought up much in this thread. For my personal use case, I've really enjoyed having the dog/camp mode in the HVAC controls, as well as the Tesla Theater. Does the Mach-E have features similar to these? These are seemingly trivial features, but personally speaking I've really enjoyed having them. Here's how I've used these features:

Dog mode: I haven't used this much as our dog is basically as new as my MYP, but I have left our dog in the car for a short duration a few times while I go grab some stuff in a store or getting out of the car to take my kids into a building. I find that I do like bringing the dog out with us more and more, so it's nice to be able to leave her in the car for a short spell. This is especially evident now that my car is in the shop (got rear-ended) and I've been driving a rental car for a few weeks. Can't bring the dog out with us in the rental car if we know we will need to leave her in the car for a short while.

Camp mode (or HVAC on while in driver's seat): I have 3 kids (youngest is 11) and have to drop them off for various activities during the week. Some of the location is far enough from home that I would just wait there until they're done. It's a great car for doing this as I can sit in the car in comfort and either watch shows or check cellphone or take a nap. Sometimes when our family is out and my wife and I make a stop somewhere and the kids don't want to go, they can stay in the car with camp mode and watch shows.

Tesla Theater: I found it to be surprisingly nice to watch Netflex/Disney/Youtube shows in the MYP. The screen is nice and big and the surround sound is pretty great to my non-audiophile ears. Waiting for 2 hours outside during my son's orchestra practice is pretty easy when I'm trying to catch up on some Disney+ shows.

Anyway, I don't see much mention to the above on these forums and perhaps most people don't care about them, but I've been really glad to have them for my specific use case. I knew about these features before buying the MYP, and thought they'd be useful, but I didn't know just how much I would come to appreciate having them.

 

[alexgr]

This is a really important comment. Tesla is a really innovative company, which is the secret to its success and the reason it now has the best EV lineup in the world. I don't see it falling into second place for a very long time. However, to keep that innovation going Tesla needs the competition. As an analogy, the Apple iPhone is the most successful smart phone in the world. However, without all those Android phones out there, I doubt the iPhone would be as polished as it is today or that Apple would continue to improve its product year after year. So... all you Tesla fans out there, please cheer for the other EVs coming to market too. The more Rivian and Lucid and Ford and VW and (yes) GM improve their products, the more Tesla will be forced to up its game. And the better that will be for all of us in the future.

And by the way... although I haven't made a decision yet I am still (slightly) leaning Tesla. No doubt, side by side, the technology and drivetrain are superior. I appreciate all the great comments on this thread. These days I'm mostly just killing time waiting for a car to arrive rather than information gathering. The two biggest factors are 1) which car gets here first, and 2) whether the BBB passes since the Ford still gets the legacy credit. Not looking great on 2) as of the Sunday news talk shows morning but I do still have some hope that something will get passed.

Please, don't buy a Tesla. You seem to have a really cheerful personality. As with Mercedes in old times, when you buy a Tesla, most likely it will be your last car brand. Cheer for other brands will be ... nah.

By the way, Ford issues a stop sale order on Mach-E until January, the news that hasn't been picked by any major outlets like CNN, Reuters, AP, etc which usually would go hysterical on such news if it were for Tesla.

 

[voxel]

Can't comment about how harsh long term ownership of the Y is (don't have mine yet...soon) but on the test drives I would concur it was a lot less refined than it ought to be given the cost.

Totally agree re: targeting average joe/jane. It's the CRV / Escape / Accord / Camry family car audience that needs something in the 35-50k price point. Broad availability at this price, with a $7500 EV incentive, along with the charging infra, is where I'd like to see my tax dollars injected into stimulating EV production and adoption.

Let's just say I ENJOYED owned the Model Y and Mach-E. The Model Y is smooth (accelerating, braking), wickedly fast, and the infotainment system was awesome (everything functions and is integrated into the single display). The Mach-E was a like a hothatch to me. Less refined than the Y in one-pedal mode.

 

[WADan]

Many of your comparison issues are personal preferences, which will override all else. Perhaps the only objective difference is long-distance travel where the supercharger network shines above all other options...at least today. So I might suggest, if you do a fair bit of travel where charging away from home/work is important, Tesla is the better option. If you don't, I'd look at the Mach-E.

I've followed this thread for a while and look forward to finding out what the OP end up buying. I think either car should be great for the OP and it seems that it probably just comes down to which car comes first and/or if there's going to be a tax credit for the Tesla.

I do want to add a couple of things from my experience in the MYP that I don't think have been brought up much in this thread. For my personal use case, I've really enjoyed having the dog/camp mode in the HVAC controls, as well as the Tesla Theater. Does the Mach-E have features similar to these? These are seemingly trivial features, but personally speaking I've really enjoyed having them. Here's how I've used these features:

Dog mode: I haven't used this much as our dog is basically as new as my MYP, but I have left our dog in the car for a short duration a few times while I go grab some stuff in a store or getting out of the car to take my kids into a building. I find that I do like bringing the dog out with us more and more, so it's nice to be able to leave her in the car for a short spell. This is especially evident now that my car is in the shop (got rear-ended) and I've been driving a rental car for a few weeks. Can't bring the dog out with us in the rental car if we know we will need to leave her in the car for a short while.

Camp mode (or HVAC on while in driver's seat): I have 3 kids (youngest is 11) and have to drop them off for various activities during the week. Some of the location is far enough from home that I would just wait there until they're done. It's a great car for doing this as I can sit in the car in comfort and either watch shows or check cellphone or take a nap. Sometimes when our family is out and my wife and I make a stop somewhere and the kids don't want to go, they can stay in the car with camp mode and watch shows.

Tesla Theater: I found it to be surprisingly nice to watch Netflex/Disney/Youtube shows in the MYP. The screen is nice and big and the surround sound is pretty great to my non-audiophile ears. Waiting for 2 hours outside during my son's orchestra practice is pretty easy when I'm trying to catch up on some Disney+ shows.

Anyway, I don't see much mention to the above on these forums and perhaps most people don't care about them, but I've been really glad to have them for my specific use case. I knew about these features before buying the MYP, and thought they'd be useful, but I didn't know just how much I would come to appreciate having them.

I don’t know if I miss it in this thread, but the most important consideration of an EV is the battery. It should be obvious which company has the best battery and associated management. And which company comes up with its own design/chemistry and is even capable of producing it in-house. And which company is going to license their technology to the best/biggest battery companies (Panasonic, LG etc…).

 

[voxel]

I've followed this thread for a while and look forward to finding out what the OP end up buying. I think either car should be great for the OP and it seems that it probably just comes down to which car comes first and/or if there's going to be a tax credit for the Tesla.

I do want to add a couple of things from my experience in the MYP that I don't think have been brought up much in this thread. For my personal use case, I've really enjoyed having the dog/camp mode in the HVAC controls, as well as the Tesla Theater. Does the Mach-E have features similar to these? These are seemingly trivial features, but personally speaking I've really enjoyed having them. Here's how I've used these features:

Dog mode:
Camp mode
Tesla Theater:

Anyway, I don't see much mention to the above on these forums and perhaps most people don't care about them, but I've been really glad to have them for my specific use case. I knew about these features before buying the MYP, and thought they'd be useful, but I didn't know just how much I would come to appreciate having them.

And HUGE positive for the Mach-E is the 360 camera, cross traffic alerts, blind spot monitors.

Telsa's big feature that doesn't exist on the Mach-E is Sentry + Dashcam.

The ultimate EV should have all of the above.

 

[voxel]

I don’t know if I miss it in this thread, but the most important consideration of an EV is the battery. It should be obvious which company has the best battery and associated management. And which company comes up with its own design/chemistry and is even capable of producing it in-house. And which company is going to license their technology to the best/biggest battery companies (Panasonic, LG etc…).

Liquid electrolyte batteries like Li-Ion are temporary stopgaps anyhow. Too flammable. Too much degradation. Poor performance in cold temperatures. Lawsuit timebomb.

The first EV maker with non-flammable batteries (i.e using solid state electrolytes) will probably be the dominant maker.

 

[TallGear]

Liquid electrolyte batteries like Li-Ion are temporary stopgaps anyhow. Too flammable. Too much degradation. Poor performance in cold temperatures. Lawsuit timebomb.

The first EV maker with non-flammable batteries (i.e using solid state electrolytes) will probably be the dominant maker.

Lithium Iron are non-flammable, just not as energy dense and can’t support the same c-rate.

 

[TallGear]

I'm glad other carmakers aren't obsessed with performance because the average joe doesn't care how fast a car goes from 0 to 60. You never hear about the acceleration speed on ID.4 forums even with the AWD variant (discussion is about winter/snow handling). Comfort, safety, and quietness are just as critical to the masses. All these Ioniq 5 reviews mention the harsh ride of the Y and Mach-E... Every. Single. One. I found the Mach-E (and Y) at the borderline of harshness. I would not take either on long road trips. Total blast on the city... annoying on the highway. BlueCruise (hands-free self driving on highway) does help the Mach-E immensely but the 80% SoC charging fall off negatives anything overly positive I have to say about road tripping in it.

Ioniq 5 is going to bit a huge success with families. It's cheap too surprisingly. I was expecting prices above the Mach-E but it undercuts them by $5K.

Only bad part about the Hyundai and Kia EVs is their dealership are really bad with ADM, so even though MSRP may be lower they will likely not be cheaper. There are a ton of Ford dealers that don’t charge ADM, I never found a single Hyundai/Kia dealer that didn’t when we were looking for a new family SUV last year.

 

[voxel]

Lithium Iron are non-flammable, just not as energy dense and can’t support the same c-rate.

LFP are NOT non-flammable. They just have a different flashpoint (higher temperature before igniting). It's not the C-rate (and energy density) that is an issue with LFP... it's how poor they operate at cold temperatures.

Regardless.. lithium electrolyte batteries have a plating/dendrite problem. Over time dendrites form will cause anode and cathode to short and fires happen.

 

[voxel]

Only bad part about the Hyundai and Kia EVs is their dealership are really bad with ADM, so even though MSRP may be lower they will likely not be cheaper. There are a ton of Ford dealers that don’t charge ADM, I never found a single Hyundai/Kia dealer that didn’t when we were looking for a new family SUV last year.

Even with $5K markup... with the $7500 tax credit the prices are lower than the Y.

https://www.hyundainews.com/en-us/releases/3466

Trying to find a Mach-E at MSRP is nearly impossible... when a dealer told me they had one at MSRP... I traded my Model Y for it. lol. Every other dealer said $5K or $10K ADM and I looked for 2-3 months back in the fall. I gave the Mach-E a try and loved it (also loved the Model Y).

I still have red/white Model Y and cyber orange Mach-E (fully loaded) on order waiting for the possible tax credit to finalize or get rejected. I plan to decide on one mid 2022... but giving the RAV4 Prime a try for now.

 

[voxel]

Yet another review of the Model Y that mentions the firm suspension (and also another dig at the Mach-E's suspension):

While I tolerated both suspensions... families may not. I'd push folks looking for "comfortable SUVs" towards the Ioniq 5. The ID.4 is too glitchy to recommend.

 

[voxel]

More reviewers harping on the Y and Mach-E firm suspension:

 

[alexgr]

Yet another review of the Model Y that mentions the firm suspension (and also another dig at the Mach-E's suspension):

While I tolerated both suspensions... families may not. I'd push folks looking for "comfortable SUVs" towards the Ioniq 5. The ID.4 is too glitchy to recommend.

Why would anyone who prioritizes family comfort go for a MYP? It's kinda an odd vehicle, IMHO. If you want performance - get a M3P, if you want family comfort - get MYLR on 19" wheels. It's not like Tesla has no options. I agree that the magnetic suspension in Mach-E GT is a significant advantage though.

 

[voxel]

Why would anyone who prioritizes family comfort go for a MYP? It's kinda an odd vehicle, IMHO. If you want performance - get a M3P, if you want family comfort - get MYLR on 19" wheels. It's not like Tesla has no options. I agree that the magnetic suspension in Mach-E GT is a significant advantage though.

It's a MYLR with 7 seats BTW. The review shows how kids get into the 3rd row. The 20" inductions are firm but not that bad IMO (I had them). However, EVs like the ID.4 (former owner) are way smoother . I consciously made the trade off but I don't have a family on the back complaining about the rough ride.

 

[Best_EV]

After driving almost 5.000 km (3.000 miles) from delivery with my Model Y LR, the suspension settled quite a bit. In am sure that it is not just me beeing adjusted to the harsh ride. I am on 19s only.

 

[Deleted member 205258]

Aloha,
My 2 cents I have a rare EV, and it's a cool talk about piece soooooo
You want a head turner and sounds like you'll only have for maybe 2 years, go with the STANG!!!! I am/was on the fence between the Y and the E-MACH, we do a lot of trips with a tiny camper, and having to do all the calculations manually for anything over 300 miles or 2,000 feet of elevation, the Tesla wins, the other chargers are growing, there's a maturity with the network, so if your going to stay in CALI get the MACH-E, I work with a retired fighter pilot that has only owner corvettes, cause that's what stick jockys do, well he got the stang, and he hates ford...I love ford, owned several, the tougher thing was, get me to not want it over the Y...the tough part is the waiting on either car. Have you came to a decision? Is this thread part of a poll, or some homework? I'd like to know what your final is.

Steve

 

[Deleted member 205258]

Oh, also forgot toadd....one company offers a tow bar for the STANG, just for a bicycle, the tipper for us is, cause we drag a 600 pound camper, there is no easy wiring harness for the MACH-E, not sure if that is something in your consideration box.

Steve

 

[WhiteWi]

And HUGE positive for the Mach-E is the 360 camera, cross traffic alerts, blind spot monitors.

Telsa's big feature that doesn't exist on the Mach-E is Sentry + Dashcam.

The ultimate EV should have all of the above.

Agree to disagree. I personally don’t care about 360/cross traffic and light in the mirrors. Tesla has great 3 cam set up that works great for me, blind spot visuals work great too. As always it is all about personal preference and being able to adopt to something new. Also just finished another long trip (900 miles) on Autopilot using it 90% of the time, Tesla calculated every stop and rerouted if superchargers were full. This is our 4th round trip of 1800 miles and I would want to be driving anything else! Most convenient and relax driving experience.

 

[sleepydoc]

No one has confirmed that it’s due to a weakness in the cooling system. ICE engines run at double the temperatures of EV motors all day, every day with those cooling systems. Ford is being stupidly overkill with a lot of the software based battery degradation protections that are ruining the performance of the car, like dropping charging rates off a cliff at 80% and having like 15kwh of unusable reserve battery pack capacity. There’s no motor that’s going to run a high enough C rate through that large of a cell pack to actually overheat it in 5 seconds, it’s all being nannied to death by software safeguards.

Are you seriously claiming that cooling in an ICE engine is the same as cooling for a lithium battery? You say you're an engineer yet you seem to have trouble grasping basic engineering concepts.

You are correct - there are plenty of reliable yet complex cooling systems, but all things being equal, more failure points mean a higher likelihood of failure and Ford has not exactly been known to be at the pinnacle of reliability. (I'm not commenting on or defending Tesla's reliability here, just stating facts about Ford.)

Temperature management is a known requirement for Li batteries - even your cordless drill batteries have circuitry to monitor and manage overheating. If you don't you can significantly compromise the performance and life of the battery. The fact that Ford needs to throttle their battery at all tells me their temperature management system is sub-optimal and is likely to affect the battery, whether it's being throttled or not.

I'm not a Tesla fanboy - it doesn't bother or threaten me to say that the MME is a strong first attempt by Ford and has definite potential, but I also see signifiant potential problems and would think twice before buying one.

 

[sleepydoc]

Why would anyone who prioritizes family comfort go for a MYP? It's kinda an odd vehicle, IMHO. If you want performance - get a M3P, if you want family comfort - get MYLR on 19" wheels. It's not like Tesla has no options. I agree that the magnetic suspension in Mach-E GT is a significant advantage though.

I can't understand why anyone would go for the MYP in general - the LR still has awesome performance. I can leave most cars in the dust without even trying. to each their own, I guess.