jelloslug
Active Member
The giant blinking boarder is more than enough to be seen out of your peripheral vision.
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Hold Steering Wheel every 20-25 seconds?
- Thread starter jsimon77
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- Autopilot Tesla Inc.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
Not many people are complaining about getting the nag when hands are off the wheel. It's the nags when one or two hands are comfortably resting on the wheel that annoy people.
I've been thinking that this may be a part of the problem. In my area, I do the one hand thing, and the autopilot steering is making frequent adjustments, letting me slightly resist the action, thus letting AP know I have the wheel. Our roads here, even the interstates I drive, are never very straight for long. Thus AP has to near continually make the very corrections that allow it to sense my hand. But if the road is dead straight and well marked, AP will probably make many fewer corrections, thus causing less instances of it sensing any resistance from the driver's hand(s); thus, depending on the timing, the "No hands" sensor may "time out" before AP has to make a correction that would allow it to sense hands on the wheel. The driver would then have to near continually initiate the moves of the steering wheel to "reset" the "No hands" timer---which doesn't seem to be any benefit over simply driving it yourself.
MarkS22
Member
Okay. And then you have to go “oh it must be the nag” and then nudge the wheel. Instead of just... driving and concentrating on the road.
How is thinking and reacting to this making driving safer? It’s adding to your workload.
Simply, if they can’t get it working with torque for all drivers with one or two hands, they need an alternate. This is a temporary fix at best.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
Yep, I've started using only TACC on straight highways now. It's more relaxing than tugging on the wheel every 27 seconds.
d21mike
Active Member
Yes the message is plural. But a recent tweet by Elon is that they are going to change the message to be more clear.
Elon Musk on Twitter
OMG I really want to see them come right out and say "Don't put two hands on the wheel, that doesn't work; just hook one thumb at 5 o'clock or 7 o'clock and rest your hand in your lap, that works great".
jelloslug
Active Member
If reacting to the nag is such a distraction for you that it takes your complete attention and focus, maybe you should not using autopilot at all. Also, if you are driving and concentration so hard on the road that you are not seeing the nag, why do you even have autopilot on in the first place?
MarkS22
Member
The message doesn't need to be more clear. It's the fact it's not detecting hands on the wheel in the first place that needs to be fixed.
MarkS22
Member
Yeah, this feels like the whole iPhone antenna "you're holding it wrong" thing. They clearly need a better solution than torque. The number of people complaining about this update is pretty significant. To all the people who have it working, congrats on being lucky that a grip you're comfortable with doesn't result in a nag. Now step back and imagine your grips still showed a nag. That's what's happening to a lot of us.
But changing the message is something they can actually do.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
I think the nag should be absent until the AP's AI confidence level drops below a certain threshold. I don't know what a good threshold would be, but I'm sure the engineers could come up with a safe value to use that would avoid the vast majority of nag messages people are currently receiving.
The number of objects detected and being used in the driving algorithm and the presence of crossroads and lane splits/mergers could also be a part of the confidence equation.
The number of objects detected and being used in the driving algorithm and the presence of crossroads and lane splits/mergers could also be a part of the confidence equation.
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It takes a fairly advanced machine learning system to be able to evaluate its own confidence with any confidence, if you'll pardon the expression. It needs to know what it doesn't know. Takes a large data set and more compute horsepower. And it will still get things wrong but be very confident in its wrong answer sometimes. Also, at 80mph conditions can change in the blink of an eye from "I've got this" to "where did the road go?"
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
I am 100% confident that the existing AP AI already has and makes use of a confidence level. This is why AP can simply drop off at any point, and without warning.
In my experience, it always drops out way too late. So it has a confidence measurement (or some kind of sanity check, possibly hand-coded outside of the NN), but it is not very good. I do think it's better than nothing; at least before the recent updates there was some scaling of the nag frequency and it seemed (anecdotally) to nag more often when construction pylons and such were visible.
d21mike
Active Member
I understand what you are saying. But if I were you I would try to do something about it since a lot of people are not having the problem. So why would that be the case?
I have heard for a "couple people" (not a lot) that doing a REBOOT of everything will resolve this issue of "not detecting hands on the wheel" like it did in the prior versions. If that does not work and you feel you are doing exactly what you were doing in the prior version with "hands on" then I would think you have a problem with your car. Maybe an adjustment of some kind? It is certainly very strange that simply reducing the time between NAGS from say 1 minute to say 30 seconds would somehow cause it to not detect the "hands on" in the same way. I have actually hear people say it is more sensitive and detects is easier. I can only say in my case I do not even think about it. It is simply natural for me.
This is a piss-poor implementation on Tesla's part. Torque sensing is non-intuitive, gets in the way of the experience, and because of that is plainly stupid. This leads me to believe that Tesla was forced into this position by the NHTSA in order to avoid a recall or other order. Driver monitoring was never a priority for Tesla, and it's half-baked implementation is now coming home to roost on the hoods of everyone who paid $5,000 for an ill-defined, falsely advertised, poorly implemented "beta" feature. The proper way to implement driver monitoring is by having capacitance sensors in the steering wheel, driver monitoring using an interior camera, or other technique that does not force the driver to do unnatural things.
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