Hold Steering Wheel every 20-25 seconds?

[doctorwho]

I'm not blaming Tesla. I'd be willing to bet they've made the changes because of all the stupid things some people have been doing with autopilot and then posting videos of it online. Add that to the recent crashes and I figure if Tesla doesn't do stuff proactively some government regulator is going to make them disable autopilot for everyone.

All of us using autopilot are helping Tesla to learn and to improve autopilot. Eventually, Tesla will get it all worked out and we'll all be the better for it.

What exactly is the purpose of the current version of Autosteer? If enough owners are transferring their attention to the steering wheel every 20 seconds or so how does that help them attend to the road ahead? If it annoys enough owners enough so much that they reduce their usage of AP then how does that help reduce the accident rate if the stats show that the previous iteration of AP lowered the crash rate in comparison to non-AP cars? I accept that AP needs to be used safely and also that there are some rogue owners that spoil the experience for everyone but how can we reward owners for helpful behaviour rather than make the experience more difficult for most owners? For instance, why not earn $1 off your next service for every 10 minutes that you are holding the wheel? How about a 'league ladder' of wheel holders with a set of arachnid wheels every month for the winner? It's easy for the cars to calculate the time that AP is engaged and torque resistance is being detected by the steering

 

[davidc18]

The nags have never been about safety.

Tesla has failed miserably to accurately explain to the public and owners what AP actually is and what it can and can not do. They went for the maximum publicity ( and stock price upside ) - it has worked out in their favor so far. I find it interesting (and hopeful) that so many people are now complaining. I stayed on FW 7.1 on my 70D until it was sold last week specifically to avoid any programmed nagging. If you are not familiar with AP 1.0 history, there were no nags at all when FW 7.0 was released. 7.1 added a "nag" every 15 minutes which at the time generated quite an uproar here on the forums.

I hope the current nagging is turned down in the future but if the past is any indication it is a faint hope.

 

[bassmaster]

If you have to hold the wheel, and also apply light steering torque pressure, then the utility of this $5000 feature is way less than what it used to be (and also what it was perceived to be). Pay attention yes, tug the steering wheel in an unnatural fashion every 10-12 seconds is no.

How many people will pay for cruise control if you have exert light pressure on the brake every 10-12 seconds for it to keep on working?

I will still use it because I have paid for it already, but would be much less likely to pay the premium now that the increased nag is there. Why not wait till it works as promised until forming over the cash...

I paid 6200€ last month to get AP - thats pretty much $7316. If I knew that before, i wouldn't spent $1 for that feature... I asked elon for a refund or downgrade to 2018.12 on twitter...

 

[No ICE]

I want the old software back. I use autopilot everyday. And it pretty much sucks now!!!!!

I can’t figure out if this is due to the recent owners who obviously were not paying any attention while using autopilot
Or
With the news of the new autonounus driving software be discussed to soon be released, Tesla making AP so crappy folks want to upgrade?? ( apple phone battery software)

I don’t know? All I know is something I loved and worked great now works like crap and I hate it.

 

[kirkbauer]

I want the old software back. I use autopilot everyday. And it pretty much sucks now!!!!!

I can’t figure out if this is due to the recent owners who obviously were not paying any attention while using autopilot
Or
With the news of the new autonounus driving software be discussed to soon be released, Tesla making AP so crappy folks want to upgrade?? ( apple phone battery software)

I don’t know? All I know is something I loved and worked great now works like crap and I hate it.

Hook a bungee cord to the steering wheel?

 

[BigCity]

Yeah I rest both hands on the bottom of the steering wheel and it doesn't seem to recognize that I have them both on the wheel, get nagged regularly as others mentioned above....frustrating that the "pressure" applied has to be so heavy, might as well drive yourself. I get what they are doing considering the misuse by some idiots, but give me an opt out option to reduce the nag to every 5 minutes or something I would gladly sign off on it, since I know how to properly use the system.

 

[deonb]

The problem is when you have one hand on the steering wheel, but the car doesn't capture it and nags you anyways.

Yes, that is annoying. The amount of torque I need to put against the steering wheel to keep AutoPilot happy, is way more than the amount of torque I need to put against the steering wheel to steer the car without AutoPilot.

Kind'a defeats the purpose.

 

[alcibiades]

To be fair, it's a lot easier to nag us to the point of not using AP than it is to get AP to identify Firetrucks, police cars, and concrete barriers.

 

[Krazaak]

I took my first trip today since the update to 2018.21.9 that was long enough to make good use of autopilot. It's pretty clear that the way I used to position my hands on the wheel isn't practical with the AP nag changes. Two hands on the wheel and anticipating APs behavior results in constant nags. If I shifted some torque to one side or the other it avoided the nags, but it was uncomfortable to maintain.

One hand on the wheel, letting the weight of my arm impart a little torque on the wheel worked fine for about 100 miles of nag free driving.

My only real issue with the change, is that I consider my old method of holding the wheel to be safer. Both hands on the wheel, anticipating APs behavior means that any erroneous action by AP is cancelled immediately, before it could move me far enough to cross the lane divider.

Holding the wheel with only one hand and torquing the wheel slightly in one direction, makes me feel that an AP error could move the vehicle further off course, requiring a more abrupt response to correct. It's hard to know just how much my reaction time would be diminished, but it just feels less safe.

 

[SUN-day Driver]

I want the old software back. I use autopilot everyday. And it pretty much sucks now!!!!!

I can’t figure out if this is due to the recent owners who obviously were not paying any attention while using autopilot
Or
With the news of the new autonounus driving software be discussed to soon be released, Tesla making AP so crappy folks want to upgrade?? ( apple phone battery software)

I don’t know? All I know is something I loved and worked great now works like crap and I hate it.

From experience I have learned, if you like how your car is working do not update it! High possibility you'll be sorry you did. If you do want to update, wait and read what people are saying about it. Like davidc18 I stayed on 7.1 for that reason.

 

[sandpiper]

This is not happiness. With that said, I agree that Tesla likely had little choice. Enough people were (I speculate) looking at their phones and smashing into things that they could no longer look the other way.

It's not Tesla's fault. It's our fault. The law of large numbers is such that a certain number of us are simply too stupid to use the system the way that it was intended, and they ruined it for the rest of us.

 

[tescroft]

I'm not complaining. Atleast we're not going back to the stone ages.

Yes we do. With this increased nagging intervall, paired with a flawful hands on detection mechanism, Autosteer is becoming a useless feature. Still worth 6000 USD? I highly doubt it.

 

[tescroft]

I'm not blaming Tesla. I'd be willing to bet they've made the changes because of all the stupid things some people have been doing with autopilot and then posting videos of it online.

You mean Elon Musk himself advertising his cars driving hands-free?

 

[tescroft]

I stayed on FW 7.1 on my 70D until it was sold last week specifically to avoid any programmed nagging.

How did you overcome the software update nagging? ;-)

 

[d21mike]

I got 2018.21.9 last night and just took about a 45 minute drive on surface streets and on the freeway. I did not get 1 nag using my 1 hand on the steering wheel method I have been using for a long time. Very similar to how I drive when driving myself on trips.

Very happy with the progress of AP.

 

[Snowstorm]

This is possibly born of necessity right now while AP is imperfect. It may be possible that Tesla would relax it later when AP matures. However, past record with “safety” related restrictions is that there is a ratchet effect. Once imposed, it is nearly impossibly to reverse safety related changes as the risk reward calculations are not rational. Think of how some states still have 55mph speed limits, and most are no higher than 70, despite cars getting much better.

 

[jelloslug]

I got the new update today and I'm not seeing this new behavior.

 

[MrAustraliaTax]

How did you overcome the software update nagging? ;-)

On my AP1 P85DL still on 7.1, I just close the update nag box every time I get into the car. After about a month, it gives up until the next update is pushed when the same process is repeated. Since AP1 updates are rare, most of the time my car does not nag about an update.

 

[Hey_Hey]

I haven’t been using AP nearly as much as I was before this last update. Honestly, if my hands have to be on the wheel, why even have Autopilot activated? A lack of hands on the wheel isn’t what was causing the problems; a lack of eyes on the road was what was causing problems.

 

[MarkS22]

This is not happiness. With that said, I agree that Tesla likely had little choice. Enough people were (I speculate) looking at their phones and smashing into things that they could no longer look the other way.

It's not Tesla's fault. It's our fault. The law of large numbers is such that a certain number of us are simply too stupid to use the system the way that it was intended, and they ruined it for the rest of us.

This is Tesla’s fault in terms of their implementation. Torque sensing is horribly ineffective and unintuitive. Look at all the posts here. They should have prepared capacitive sensors or implemented the selfie camera (or something like Cadillac) for attention monitoring.

Yes, people make mistakes and don’t listen to directions. That’s also why we care about seat belts, airbags, and five star crash ratings. Tesla is still responsible for a satisfying user experience, knowing there will be people who take advantage of the system. It’s inexcusable to have a tug on the wheel be the sole determination of alertness. Especially at less than 30 second intervals.

Those nags are literally distracting me while driving. I have my hands on the wheel and I keep looking down, away from the road, to see why it’s flashing. How in the world is that safe?