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how bad for the battery is supercharging?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by syswei, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. syswei

    syswei Member

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    I have an SC just 5 miles from my house. Suppose we own the car (a refreshed 70D) until 70k miles, and use the SCs for half, or maybe two-thirds, of those miles...could anyone please give me a sense of how that would impact the battery?
     
  2. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Not too much at all. But you would be a douchebag for clogging up the Supercharger and, assuming you could set up home charging, someonw who puts a surprisingly low value on your personal time.
     
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  3. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    I think you'd get tired of hanging out at the supercharger. For day to day / commute driving, charging at a Supercharger is kind of a pain in the butt and certainly a waste of time, especially compared to the luxury of always starting the day with a full battery from home charging.

    That said, I've put 55k miles on my car, a significant amount (>35%) are supercharged road trips, and I have less than 3% degradation (or basically the same as any other Tesla with that mileage).
     
  4. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    Lets talk batteries some more....
    1) known degradation if one overcharges and does not discharge soon. Does degradation happen if one discharges rapidly, repeatedly ?
    [as in hot rodding in ludicrous mode] i.e. - should one be cautious about buying a used ludicrous car?
    2) The MS60 seems to be a 75 kWh pack. Seems like it is software limited to recharging to 80% of 75, or 60 kWh. But does this mean it cannot discharge 75 kWh? Is there any performance difference gained by buying the 75 kWh upgrade?
     
  5. syswei

    syswei Member

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    Thanks for the replies. My situation isn't that common, perhaps. The Tesla is my wife's, but I work from home...and sometimes have, believe it or not, fast food for lunch...so the concept is that instead of driving my MB a few miles into town for fast food, I'd use the Tesla and once a week drive a few miles to the SC and have lunch while the car is charging up. So, not really an incremental time waster compared to my alternative. At mid-day on weekdays I think I wouldn't be depriving anyone of the SC (or depriving an ICE of the parking space).
     
  6. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Do you have a home charger? Do the math.. if you can charge up every night at home, it's *still* only saving a few bucks a week, IF THAT to go to the SC instead once a week. Based on your location, you're talking either Merritt Parkway or Darien rest stop on I-95. I've charged at both, and frankly, I couldn't see stopping at either location once a week just to save a few bucks and eat rest-stop level junk food and hang out with rest-stop people.

    If it were say, in town, and you could park-and-charge and then walk to a nice restaurant for lunch for an hour, then I'd say sure, that sounds reasonable. But rest-stop food courts? Blech. ;)
     
  7. syswei

    syswei Member

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    #7 syswei, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
    HankLloydRight, you are correct that it isn't alot of money. If we DON'T charge every night at home and I go to the SC when I can refill by 40kW while having lunch, it saves about 7 bucks a trip...I think my electric is $.18/kWh. Small change compared to the price of the car, but eating a bagel sandwich from Dunkin, or a sub from Subway, isn't incrementally worse than a once a week Wendy's or McDonald's meal. Now I DO deserve some scorn for eating at ANY of those places, I know...that's why earlier I said I "sometimes have, believe it or not, fast food for lunch"

    Anyway, I wasn't intending to debate my disgusting eating habits, so much as find out whether I'd be hurting the battery significantly. Which I guess I've now found out.
     
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  8. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    From a strictly technical point of view, Supercharging is definitely not harmful to the battery. The way Tesla adjusts the charge power and keeps the battery cooled is definitely on the safe side. I have used Superchargers for probably 30-40% of my 76k miles in the last two years and comparing my battery degradation to others it's not bad at all. It is actually above average. So don't worry, use Superchargers as much as you want.

    Of course there is the issues that other brought up about using Superchargers for your daily needs. Just for convenience I really prefer to charge at home whenever I can. Supercharging takes up your time. Charging at home takes up none of your time.
     
  9. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    What you eat isn't relevant to this discussion. Please charge your car at home. You have not stated that you cannot do that, so I assume you can (and any Tesla owner surely can afford to charge at home). So please do that, and leave the Superchargers for those who have no way to charge where they live (there are such people) and for those on long distance trips away from home. Thank you!
     
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  10. syswei

    syswei Member

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    ecarfan,

    AGAIN, "At mid-day on weekdays I think I wouldn't be depriving anyone of the SC (or depriving an ICE of the parking space)."

    If I find otherwise, or that even 3 of the 4 spots are ever in use at that time of day, I would stop doing it! Generally, those SCs/parking spots are going to see the most use around rush hours and certain times on weekends/holidays.
     
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  11. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    OK, you have my permission to use this SC in the way you describe. You seem to have the right ethics. [ and i just know you were expecting my permission - so vital for how you conduct your life]
     
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  12. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Buy $100k car. Make yourself $5-$10 an hour sitting at a supercharger.... Makes, perfect, sense.
     
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  13. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    It's not bad the battery to use the SC, but it is bad for the battery to charge and discharge over a large range of it's capacity repeatedly. i.e. it will last a lot longer if say keep it at 70% and if you're only using 10% day, great, charge at home at night back up to 70 and you're battery will last forever going between 60 and 70%. It will degrade faster going from 90 to 20% over a week and then charging that 70% back up at the supercharger.
     
  14. William13

    William13 Member

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    Syswei, remember that it costs 50 cents- $1.00/mile to drive the car from a depreciation standpoint. If you are thinking about how to save pennies, this must be accounted.
     
  15. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    I did no know this. I THOUGHT 10%-90% was a good range, [full exercise] and that the last 10% on either end was damaging. Now you say 60% to 70% is the optimum for "infinite " battery life? Should I EVER charge to 100% for balancing? Should I EVER drain down to near-zero to override memory?
     
  16. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Optimum would be keeping it at 60% all the time and never having it go up or down but if you drive it all you can't really do that.

    The narrower your charge range, the better. The more you keep it from the top or bottom, the better. Going from 10% to 90% is WAY WAY bettter than going from 0 to 100 but it's still not as good as going from 40 to 60% over and over.
     
  17. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    Thats good to know. What is your thought on a 100% charge for balancing? How often?
     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Basically just charge it daily and don't worry about it. Keep it plugged in when you're not driving it. Tesla's battery management system (BMS) is very good and maximizes battery life automatically.

    Use 100% when you need the extra range. Charging to 100% isn't particularly bad if you don't leave it sit, so when you need the extra range, set the timer so that it finishes about the time you start driving. Otherwise, just charge anywhere in the daily range (most forum members charge between 80% and 90% (90% is full daily charge). A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla.

    Note that if you charge only to a low amount, you'll see the range shown decrease. This has to do with both balancing and the algorithm used. The balancing circuits are triggered when the state of charge (SOC) reaches 93%. Balancing then continues for several days regardless of SOC.
     
  19. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    Is it a good thing to trigger the 93% once a month? Just refill nightly to 80% seems way to simple. There MUST be a hook somewhere!!!
     
  20. syswei

    syswei Member

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    If I haven't been clear, the choice is basically:

    (a) drive 4 miles and have lunch at a place WITHOUT a SC

    -OR-

    (b) drive 4 miles and have lunch at a place WITH a SC; no incremental time used; no incremental mileage put on the car

    Since I'm saying I won't do (b) if I deprive anyone of a SC or parking spot, and since other posters here have established that there need be no significant harm to the battery from SC use, I think the choice is pretty clear.
     

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