How common is ghosting?

[AnxietyRanger]

Frankly, I don't put a lot of weight on comments that say they have never seen ghosting. I just don't think those are accurate, even though they are honest comments I'm sure. My personal belief is those cars very likely have ghosting as well. For me it would probably take someone who knows ghosting intimately finding a car that doesn't have it, to alter this opinion, or a clearly new revision of the product.

The thing about the ghosting is, it isn't something you see by looking out the windshield normally, so a lot of people miss it and are fine with it. It isn't like there is some filter on the entire windshield causing ghosting of everything, which would be terrible, but luckily this issue is not as bad. (This is also why for me this conversation is more academic than a major issue, I am not personally bothered by the ghosting - just strive for accuracy in discussing it.)

It affects bright light sources only, such that have enough intensity to fracture into separate beams on or in the windshield. These light sources usually have some glare and ambiguity on any windshield, anyway, due to their brightness, so many won't care at all. It isn't like we normally look at the headlights of approaching cars all the time, right?

But the issue IMO is very real, obviously, and due to the design of the windshield, clearly - not a bad batch or anything like that.

I again return to the computer, tv or tablet screen issue analogy on internet forums. Ambient conditions are a big, big part of all these. Ambient light for example has a big tendency in evening out any unevenness - and pitch black darkness in bringing out the problems. A person looking at a screen usually in great ambient lighting will not see what a viewer in the dark will (add to that differences in visual acuity etc.). This also affects the ghosting discussion. Basically not all see and drive in similar circumstances.

One example of it below (thanks @Jeff McClure Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?) , however as it is basically light reflecting from the layers of the windshield, the severity is affected by various things such as:

- ambient conditions (daylight or rain can offset it)
- angle of the view (e.g. seating height can make it less or worse)
- closeness of the object (ghosting may be more pronounced on far-away objects)
- tint of the windshield or (sun)glasses (can lessen or remove it)
- harshness of the light source is definitely a factor (easier to see on headlights pointed at you than traffic lights or taillights)

 

[rainman50]

It's a deal breaker for me buying the Model X. I'll wait for the Model Y and see if that has the same concern. To me it is totally inexcusable to have in such an expensive vehicle. I love my Model S (P85 2014). My wife would get the SUV model.

 

[Peteybabes]

It's a deal breaker for me buying the Model X. I'll wait for the Model Y and see if that has the same concern. To me it is totally inexcusable to have in such an expensive vehicle. I love my Model S (P85 2014). My wife would get the SUV model.

the majority stated that it's not noticeable at all...see if you can get an extended test drive in one to see if you even experience it.

it seems that based on seating position in the car is where some may or may not see this "ghosting" effect.

 

[Cowby]

It was not a dealbreaker for me even tho I've seen ghosting in EVERY SINGLE X I've driven in. My hope is Tesla will fess up and own this and replace them instead of letting this get to the level of NHTSA recall. In the meantime, I'm getting my windshield tinted right now in hopes of minimizing the defects. I'll post back once it's done and test it out.

 

[hill]

the majority stated that it's not noticeable at all .........snip.......

if you tally up those from the poll who see it a little & those who see it a lot, daytime & nighttime, it's pretty close to 50%. Then if you factor in that some people are just clueless, or that some seldom drive at night, that means the percentage would be more than 50/50 have ghosting. but hey - if Tesla says it's normal then I guess it's normal.

I duno .... it used to seem really bad to us, but after a while i think i'm almost used to it .... maybe that's why others don't mind it either - they don't realize they're just used to it !

.

 

[verygreen]

I think once you see the ghosting you cannot unsee it and it jumps at you all the time.
I drove my old S loaner at dusk finally and ... it also has ghosting. It's much milder than my X but I now see it too. It's also pretty extreme in the S in the rear view mirror for whatever reason.
So... my advice (though if you are reading this it's too late): don't learn about ghosting beforehand and then there's a fair chance you won't notice it unless it's really extreme, and then you can join this or other similar threads, but not before!

 

[nnick01]

My car has it. Day or night. You get used to it. Its annoying and Tesla should of addressed it a long time ago, but its not a deal beaker by any means for me.

 

[RIZE]

Our car (built in summer 2016) has had no problems whatsoever with ghosting. Door latches, window seals and trailer wiring however, that's a different story!

 

[Got-EMF]

I'm thinking this is just a matter of the laws of physics - specifically light refraction due to the low angle of the windshield. Having to have a laminated windshield just adds another layer literally to the problem. Solutions? A thinner or infinitely thin windshield, or one made of materials that don't reflect light, or changing the angle to a more vertical angle. I don't see any easy solutions, but it could be my beer goggles!

 

[Mark Z]

Halos around bright lights are a normal part of aging, especially as cataracts start forming. The ghosting isn't as bad as extremely bright headlights with halos, especially in the fast lane or a two lane road. My suggestion is for buyers to take a test drive at night and determine your tolerance level to the reflective ghosting effect.

Bright oncoming headlights is one area where Autopilot is very helpful when it tracks the lane line reflectors accurately at night. I look forward to all 8 cameras being activated in the future for hopefully a super accurate 3rd generation Autopilot to enable 100% perfection in lane control and steering.

 

[Maximus-MX]

I have my X for almost two months now, and I haven't seen ghosting or anything like it. Didn't hear anything from people traveled with me either. I admit I wasn't looking for it. In the poll, I was looking for "what ghosting?"

 

[Peteybabes]

I have my X for almost two months now, and I haven't seen ghosting or anything like it. Didn't hear anything from people traveled with me either. I admit I wasn't looking for it. In the poll, I was looking for "what ghosting?"

lol, love it! i think ghosting is actually probably present in most cars if you look for it.

i don't even notice it unless i try...moving my head to different positions, slouching, etc.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Our car (built in summer 2016) has had no problems whatsoever with ghosting.

I have my X for almost two months now, and I haven't seen ghosting or anything like it.

I wish it weren't so, but I am 99.99% confident both of these cars have ghosting too. But similarly, I am 99.99% confident these posters are genuinely reporting their experience and have not been bothered nor noticed any ghosting. Anecdotal user experiences are a really difficult data source as comparing user reports on some issue is nearly always apples to oranges, even if we ignore any inherent bias thay may come from commenting a personal purchase choice (people tend to like stuff they've chosen more than stuff they've not).

I am just adding up all my experiences on Model Xs as well as screen issue type of discussions on the Internet and coming to this conclusion. I am half expecting someone coming along and saying the windshields may not be perfect, but they are "perfect for them", whatever that means.

 

[Cowby]

I wish it weren't so, but I am 99.99% confident both of these cars have ghosting too. But similarly, I am 99.99% confident these posters are genuinely reporting their experience and have not been bothered nor noticed any ghosting. Anecdotal user experiences are a really difficult data source as comparing user reports on some issue is nearly always apples to oranges, even if we ignore any inherent bias thay may come from commenting a personal purchase choice (people tend to like stuff they've chosen more than stuff they've not).

Very well said. I'd even go so far as to bet $100 to anyone with an X that thinks they don't have ghosting and I'll prove it to them....although I'd say you'd hate me afterwards for showing you tho!

 

[Maximus-MX]

Very well said. I'd even go so far as to bet $100 to anyone with an X that thinks they don't have ghosting and I'll prove it to them....although I'd say you'd hate me afterwards for showing you tho!

Well, I mentioned about ghosting to my wife today. It took me some time explaining about what the heck the thing is. Then, I asked her if she has noticed anything like that in our X. She laughed it off and said I'm joking. She still couldn't believe me this is a real issue, and people are dealing with it .

 

[Cowby]

Well, I mentioned about ghosting to my wife today. It took me some time explaining about what the heck the thing is. Then, I asked her if she has noticed anything like that in our X. She laughed it off and said I'm joking. She still couldn't believe me this is a real issue, and people are dealing with it .

I purposely chose NOT to tell my wife about the ghosting to see if she'd notice it. It took her about 1 week after we got the X. At first she thought her astigmatism was getting worse and she needed to get her Glasses/contacts updated, but finally started seeing the halos/ghosting with the oncoming headlights...then she said I bought a defective car, lol. Only after that did I tell her it was a known issue and they haven't come up with a fix yet.

 

[Maximus-MX]

I purposely chose NOT to tell my wife about the ghosting to see if she'd notice it. It took her about 1 week after we got the X. At first she thought her astigmatism was getting worse and she needed to get her Glasses/contacts updated, but finally started seeing the halos/ghosting with the oncoming headlights...then she said I bought a defective car, lol. Only after that did I tell her it was a known issue and they haven't come up with a fix yet.

Either our X has no or minimal (insignificant) ghosting, or my wife and I need an appointment with our Optometrist, asap (I wear eye glasses and my wife doesn't). I'm tempted to take a night ride, right now, just to find out! However, I don't want to make an effort to find out, because once we see it, it's hard to "unsee". I'm glad we can't "see" it.

The only logical explanation I have for if is that in some X's, it must be worse than others. If that's the case, they should put more effort in finding solutions and fixing them (there is no excuse).

I also saw YouTube videos of people recording ghosting in other cars (such as Toyota Prius and Honda). I know some also say it's a law of physics because of the angle of the glass.

 

[Cowby]

Either our X has no or minimal (insignificant) ghosting, or my wife and I need an appointment with our Optometrist, asap (I wear eye glasses and my wife doesn't). I'm tempted to take a night ride, right now, just to find out! However, I don't want to make an effort to find out, because once we see it, it's hard to "unsee". I'm glad we can't "see" it.

The only logical explanation I have for if is that in some X's, it must be worse than others. If that's the case, they should put more effort in finding solutions and fixing them (there is no excuse).

I also saw YouTube videos of people recording ghosting in other cars (such as Toyota Prius and Honda). I know some also say it's a law of physics because of the angle of the glass.

Others have posted pics of double and triplicates of the ghosting images. If you really want to go down this rabbit hole then search for those pics. My suggestion, do not taking the "red pill"...ignorance is bliss in this case.

 

[Maximus-MX]

Others have posted pics of double and triplicates of the ghosting images. If you really want to go down this rabbit hole then search for those pics. My suggestion, do not taking the "red pill"...ignorance is bliss in this case.

I agree. "Blue pill" please .

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The only logical explanation I have for if is that in some X's, it must be worse than others. If that's the case, they should put more effort in finding solutions and fixing them (there is no excuse).

IMO that is not the only logical explanation. Having participated in so many screen quality discussions on the internet I have concluded people's sensitivity to such issues varies greatly. Usually when someone says they don't have it, means they don't see it. Only when an expert on the issue says they found a problem-free one amongst failed ones, does that likelihood change.

While unit to unit differences are possible, I find it likely they play less of a role than the former with idividual experiences in this case. We really have no apples to apples data to support some windshields being materially better than others at this time.

Finally, we know seat and head height/angle as well as glasses usage and windshield tinting does affect ghosting, so there is that.