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MrBoylan
Member
From what I've read, and heard from Tesla on conference calls, most of the early (2012/2013) problems with drive units were not the drive units at all, but loose cables or other parts. The drive units that did have issues could be repaired with a 50 cent shim. At least that's what Musk said on an earnings call a couple of years ago when asked about the issue. They just replaced the drive unit under warranty as a precautionary measure and to get the cars back to the customers quickly while they investigated the issue. And with the concern about it, that's when they announced the 8-year unlimited mile warranty on the battery and drive unit.
Apparently swapping out a drive unit is a pretty quick and straightforward procedure. How long did they have your car when they did the swap?
Meanwhile, my wife recently hit a curb at low speed in our Highlander: blew out a tire and the power steering module. $1800 part and 21 hours of labor as they have to remove the engine to get to it. That's not going to be a pretty bill. Fortunately it's covered by insurance since it was technically an accident that caused it. I told her the Model X will have proximity sensors so she won't have to do that again.
From what I've read, and heard from Tesla on conference calls, most of the early (2012/2013) problems with drive units were not the drive units at all, but loose cables or other parts. The drive units that did have issues could be repaired with a 50 cent shim. At least that's what Musk said on an earnings call a couple of years ago when asked about the issue. They just replaced the drive unit under warranty as a precautionary measure and to get the cars back to the customers quickly while they investigated the issue. And with the concern about it, that's when they announced the 8-year unlimited mile warranty on the battery and drive unit.
Apparently swapping out a drive unit is a pretty quick and straightforward procedure. How long did they have your car when they did the swap?
Meanwhile, my wife recently hit a curb at low speed in our Highlander: blew out a tire and the power steering module. $1800 part and 21 hours of labor as they have to remove the engine to get to it. That's not going to be a pretty bill. Fortunately it's covered by insurance since it was technically an accident that caused it. I told her the Model X will have proximity sensors so she won't have to do that again.
Definitely wasn't the case for me, unfortunately. I could actually hear a difference when on the accelerator (especially just at crusing speed on the highway) - techs were actually blown away that I picked it up. But you're right, it is basically like plug and play (compared to other cars); they only had mine for a day and I forget how many hours... Maybe 3-4? But the expensive portion of it would be the parts, that's the majority of the car, excluding the battery.
I agree with some others here in that Tesla's engineering focus going forward will have to be Model 3. The Model S updates were unique in that it was really the Model X development that fed into Model S. Model 3 will be largely an exercise in cost cutting. Only things I see on the horizon are the usual small tweaks regular cars get every new few models years (slightly larger battery, maybe better power plugs, colors, etc.). I do think we will see better autopilot hardware on both X and S at some point.
From what I've read, and heard from Tesla on conference calls, most of the early (2012/2013) problems with drive units were not the drive units at all, but loose cables or other parts. The drive units that did have issues could be repaired with a 50 cent shim. At least that's what Musk said on an earnings call a couple of years ago when asked about the issue. They just replaced the drive unit under warranty as a precautionary measure and to get the cars back to the customers quickly while they investigated the issue. And with the concern about it, that's when they announced the 8-year unlimited mile warranty on the battery and drive unit.
Apparently swapping out a drive unit is a pretty quick and straightforward procedure. How long did they have your car when they did the swap?
Meanwhile, my wife recently hit a curb at low speed in our Highlander: blew out a tire and the power steering module. $1800 part and 21 hours of labor as they have to remove the engine to get to it. That's not going to be a pretty bill. Fortunately it's covered by insurance since it was technically an accident that caused it. I told her the Model X will have proximity sensors so she won't have to do that again.
I've read that Tesla was swapping drive units and sending them back to the factory for analysis to determine the failure modes and improve them. Buying a new drive unit from Tesla might be kind of pricey, but there will be a secondary market with parts pulled from cars out of service, mostly wrecks. Additionally Tesla will have to expand their service from just their service centers by the time the Model 3 is out a couple of years. They can maintain a fleet of 50,000 - 100,000 cars with their current service centers. They will build more for the Model 3, but when there are over 1 million on the road, cars out of warranty will need other service options and Tesla will have to offer certifications to independent technicians. If they don't, they will get pushback from their customers.
They are keeping it all in house right now because just about all the cars are still in warranty (about the only ones that aren't are 2500 or so Roadsters) and they are still looking for patterns of failure. If all cars pass through a service center, they can collect data on every problem customers experience and make fixes to prevent them. Elon Musk has talked about this being a multi-stage process, first build an electric car that was fun to drive, though small and expensive, then build an electric sedan that was better than almost every other sedan out there in most categories, then do the same with an SUV, and finally introduce an affordable family car. The Model S and X were sort of phase 2a and 2b, but each phase increases volume by 1-2 orders of magnitude: build Roadsters in the thousands, Model S/X in the 100,000s, and the Model 3 in the millions.
Tesla's long term goal is primarily to build electric cars for the masses that people want. Not just the green crowd, or the techies, but the mass public. Elon is also a perfectionist who wants to build cars to aircraft tolerance with new technologies, but when push comes to shove he wants to make affordable cars for the masses first.
Do you know of ANY car model that had a sticker price of $115k in 2013 and currently has a resale value higher than $70k?
I've seen 8 month old $120k+ BMW M6's sell in the $70k's. A 2013 Porsche 911 with a $115k sticker would have a hard time getting $70k today. I think it's just natural depreciation.
One way around it is to always buy 2 year old cars to avoid the initial hit. I'm sure some preowned P85D+ will hit Tesla preowned soon and Tesla provides a great warranty on their pre-owned vehicles. As for the X, we know for certain there is a + version coming out in the next few months.
That's true, but the M6 is even more niche than Tesla! Also, I'm not too concerned about the + versions - what do they come equipped with that's different again? Ties and suspension? The real upgrades that make you kick yourself are the HUGE ones like Autopilot and Dual Motors.
The P90D with Ludicrous mode is already putting P85Ds on the used market. The P version of the Model S seems to have more turn over than the standard S. I have been looking at the used market and there are always a couple of P85Ds for sale somewhere, but I've only seen about 3 85Ds for sale used. The older P85s and P85+s are a softer market because there are a lot of them for sale and for just a little more than the price they are going for, you can get a new 85D which has better range and generally better performance, plus the tax incentive. There are a fair number of original rear wheel drive 85s out there on the used market too, but they are priced pretty close to the P85s. In general used Model Ss do tend to sell well if they are priced right. The turnover for CPOs is fairly high and private sales don't get reposted too often.
You'll note my complaint over on the Model S Firmware forum is about precisely this. I do want to make sure I still have the product I originally bought, and there's some threat of Tesla removing functionality in software updates.
Apart from that, though, yes, you do have the product you originally bought....
I hear what you're saying, but the difference between the P85 vs the dual motor variant actually pretty significant. The regular D does 0-60 in the 5 second range. My P85 does it in 3.9, that's a huge difference (a bigger one than the P85D vs the P90D with ludicrous). Furthermore, tax incentive don't outweigh having to pay sales tax, sorry. They're pretty close to even, so a $140,000 model s is actually closer to $154,000 (with tax) here in Cali before incentive. After the 10k tax bonus, which still isn't as good as cash, that brings to to $145,000. Again, incentives are a moot point when you can buy basically the same car (let's assume the P85D) for $40,000+ less.
Tesla advertises the 0-60 time of the 85D at 4.2s and I've read people have seen 4.3-4.4s in the real world. The rear wheel drive S 85 has a 0-60 of 5.4s according to the website that tracks these times.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2yy6ka/model_s_85d_060_much_better_than_advertised
http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/tesla-0-60-mph-times/
I don't think I'd notice much of a difference from 3.9 to 4.4s, though some people might.
I'd have to pay sales tax regardless of whether I buy a new one or a used one and the tax incentive is only the federal one here in Washington State (no state income tax). Up until this June there was no sales tax on all EVs, but they put a cap for the value of the car at $35K. Anything costing more than that has regular sales tax.
engle
Member
Here's a video I shot that ends up telephoto to the MobilEye sensors on the X front windshield at 27 seconds:
2016 Tesla Model X: Front Headlight thru "Big Sky" Windshield to AutoPilot MobilEye
Can someone who has a newer Model S compare this to their front windshield sensors?
Thanks!
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Rule of thumb: If you can buy it, it's already obsolete. Just purchase and don't worry about the next new thing. If not having the absolute latest bothers you, just don't ever read any forum posts, reviews, or go to the Tesla web site until the car no longer does what you want it to do
vitaliy
Member
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