Frankly, a refund seems like the more likely relief. I can't see an arbitrator ordering Tesla to give you a buggy update that so far has basically just been distributed to Tesla employees (and a small handful of others) for what amounts to internal testing. (Though Musk deserves to be "benchslapped" by a court for acting like that essentially internal release was actually a more widespread release of a basically working product).
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How many believe that the FTC will find Tesla did use deceptive marketing practices?
- Thread starter 2101Guy
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Ultimately I think they'll take care of the majority through getting the FSD beta working well enough to do a general release, and then FSD will at least have something.
This is independent of any FTC action. I think the FTC will simply fine Tesla, and that will be the end of it.
Long term Tesla will need to implement a customer retention plan where existing owners are granted FSD in a trade in. Either in transferring FSD or getting X months free of FSD on the new vehicle. If they don't do that a lot of annoyed FSD owners will bail to other options.
At some point after the FSD beta release I expect Tesla to stop offering FSD for sale, and instead the only way to get it is through a subscription or buying someones used Tesla.
I do predict that FSD will be valuable even in an L2 form. Now sure it won't be to people who really wanted autonomy, but it will be to those where partial autonomy can alleviate anxiety inducing moments. Like moments while at a weird traffic light where you're not sure what you're supposed to do. Or moments at a 4 way multi-lane stop where you can't recall when all the vehicles got there because there are so many of them.
Most of the refunds, and settlements will occur outside the US where regulatory bodies won't allow anything like FSD beta.
MasterchiefTS
Member
So, I'm agree with @diplomat33- The marketing of Elon, It was terrible. Yet with AP1, he said that the car was ready for FSD.
The biggest problem with FSD is people don't really know what they're getting, and when they're promised to get it.
We can't even discuss what FSD even is without getting into arguments.
The CEO did say Level 5 by the end of the year, but he also made it clear that it would then depend on regulators.
I bought FSD back in 2018 because it was only $3K (it was separate from EAP). Like a lot of people I didn't buy it because I seriously though L5 was ever possible with HW3, but because I figured it would be an interesting journey.
My main beef with Tesla isn't the lack of autonomous driving, but that I didn't get to participate in the FSD beta. The entire point to me was the ride itself, and I didn't get to ride.
We all have different expectations for FSD, but I think only a small minority of people were actually gullible enough to believe L5 was seriously possible. I voted that the marketing was deceptive, but that's nothing new with Tesla/Elon. Like when Elon promised in 2017 that Superchargers would become solar powered, and they'd disconnect from the grid. Again it's another over the moon claim that's just ridiculous.
As far as I’m concerned, I’ve bought my last Tesla. Selling FSD to people in 2017 was fraud. There’s no way you can blame the consumer in this case, we didn’t have the same information Tesla and Elon had at the time of marketing. Let’s also not forget about the abysmal service and ghosting of customer emails. When I spend $100,000 on a car, I’d like to think that the company appreciates me. In my case, I just feel like an idiot taken advantage of
I do wonder how much of the terrible customer engagement is the fact that they don't have any answers.
What are they supposed to say? sorry about that whole Robo taxi claim, but no you can't get your money back and FSD will be done when its done. If you don't live that long its not our fault.
They don't respond to FSD Beta emails because how does anyone explain the ridiculousness of it? How do you engage with a customer that had to go through a safety score obstacle course for the opportunity to use the beta only to be let down by how terrible it is.
The inability for it to stop where a driver would normally stop
The inability to use the turn signal properly.
The weird sudden jerks
The sheer amount of map/navigation updates would keep the agents busy for months
The inability to do smooth turns that aren't broken up into multiple corrections
I don't have monetary grievances with Tesla, but I do have a lot of "this is broken because it should do this" type of feedback along with a lot of maps fixes.
My plan is to hold onto the Tesla as long as is mentally healthy to do so until I can get a Rivian.
The way for me to do that is not to use an of the auto features because they're all broken.
Auto lights -> Turning lights on and off every minute is fun.
Auto bright -> There is a lot of ambient light and a lot of cars around so lets turn on
Auto wipers -> Is it raining? Is it not raining? I dunno. We'll just pretend we know
Auto lane change -> Oh, no there is a semi in the far lane and I'm scared.
TACC -> Is that a shadow? Is a car coming in the other lane? If so lets brake. When it doubt brake!!
AP -> Oh, lets re-center at a merge point or a lane split like an idiot
NoA -> Lets be as dumb as possible with our lane selection. The driver won't mind us getting in and out the passing lane 5 times in 5 minutes while passing a total of zero cars.
Trip planner -> Lets suddenly way over report estimation consumption so they have to charge here for much longer. Maximum revenue
Pre-Conditioning -> looks like the supercharger is 2 hours away so lets start pre-conditioning. The driver will love the whine sound and the extra energy drainage while we heat the battery well before needed.
Throwing all that garbage out and driving the car pure manually transforms it from rage inducing machine into a relaxing, but exhilarating experience.
In other words Elon can take his "all user input is error" and shove it down his vomit inducing twitter mouth.
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golfpilot
Member
I've also bought my last Tesla. Don't get me wrong. I love the car, and I have no intention of selling it. But in 3.5 years, the service has gone from actually pretty good to abysmal. I was a cheapskate and bought enhanced Autopilot, and I am happy with what I got for the price I got it. But there are still promised features that haven't been realized, such as a functioning Summon mode, that I don't think I will ever see. People who got FSD really got scammed. Until the FSD stuff is out of Beta, People who decide to trade their FSD car for a new one should get FSD included. Telling them they have FSD and all they have is EAP is BS.
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