How many potential buyers worry about roadtrips?

[David_Cary]

OP here. Good thread.

My personal situation is Leaf owner, Accord owner. Option 1 - Buy another Leaf, have 3 cars, keeping Accord for road trips. 3 car garage, very low insurance rates.
Option 2 - buy a Tesla. Either way, range anxiety - not a problem here. Gas stations - not an issue - except on trips. But 5 min anywhere vs 30 in very specific locations....

Obviously option 1 is a lot cheaper. Option 1 gives some greater flexibility and speed on road trips. We do eat on the road. While my 4yo takes bathroom breaks, it takes 2 minutes.

Maybe an East coast/West coast thing. Smell the roses? I've gotta to get back to work! But seriously, there are no roses at the Lumberton SC. In fact it is a pretty horrible place to spend time. Burlington maybe a bit nicer surroundings but roses, no. Where I am going on vacation is hopefully much nicer.

Great to see the passion. I'm absolutely sure that travelling in a S is much nicer than an Accord. Worth retiring 6 months later.....still on the fence.

 

[jerry33]

OP here. Good thread.

My personal situation is Leaf owner, Accord owner. Option 1 - Buy another Leaf, have 3 cars, keeping Accord for road trips. 3 car garage, very low insurance rates.
Option 2 - buy a Tesla. Either way, range anxiety - not a problem here. Gas stations - not an issue - except on trips. But 5 min anywhere vs 30 in very specific locations....

Obviously option 1 is a lot cheaper. Option 1 gives some greater flexibility and speed on road trips. We do eat on the road. While my 4yo takes bathroom breaks, it takes 2 minutes.

Well, this is a decision that only you can make. However, I've taken a number of road trips where there are no Superchargers and I haven't even considered taking the ICE car. The Model S is really that much better. Just take some things to do and a cooler full of munchies to occupy yourself at the RV parks. And bear in mind that the RV parks are temporary until Tesla builds out their network.

The goal is to make every part of the vacation trip enjoyable--not just the non-traveling parts.

 

[NigelM]

Mod Note: some posts went here Prospering-for-your-own-good-warranty-supercharging-proof-of-life-etc-etc

 

[CHGolferJim]

Not sure "worry" is the right word for my situation, but I am concerned about it, and am trying to plan around it and educate myself before pulling the trigger (thanks TMC!). I want to see the SC network planned through 2015 come online before I buy, because I plan to take a good many serious road trips (New Orleans, California, western parks, NJ) now that my last child is entering college.

The key issues I'm wrestling with (analysis paralysis?) are more that I now have a great car that is 80%+ depreciated so very cheap to operate, probably need a garage electrical upgrade first, cash flow as a retiree, is MS or 3 the best size for me, and improved pricing and breadth of optional features especially interior colors.

 

[trigga71]

OP it sounds like you should look at a Volt. I lost interest in it mainly because it didn't seat 5. A Prius (plug in?) could be another option. Both of which allow you to fill up anywhere and if possible plug in.

I loved my LEAF when I had it but the range and slower charge rate does hinder it as a road trip vehicle. I'm not sure I would buy another at least until a redesign came out with larger battery and 80 amp charging.

 

[wk057]

OP it sounds like you should look at a Volt.

Pretty much. I had a Volt and it was good for the lifestyle you describe. You value, and pay a premium, for the 5 minute "anywhere" fueling.

Tesla has done an awesome job with the superchargers. And I personally am on yet another road trip and currently in western NC.

Not sure, but I think what you may be missing is that you never really need superchargers day to day. I only use them for road trips really.

This trip I stopped in Glen Allen and Burlington. Charged to 240 miles in Glen Allen while eating at Chilis. In Burlington I literally needed a 10 minute charge to make my destination. So right around 1 hour of charging related downtime. For the same trip in the Volt I needed one stop somewhere, usually South Hill VA. 2 minutes is an exaggeration for a fuel stop, but, 10-15 is pretty likely for a single stop on a trip like this after fueling, bathroom break, grabbing some snacks, cleaning windshield of bugs, etc.

Door to door times for my main regular road trip (NJ->Western NC) might as well be the same with Tesla+Supercharger vs. Volt+Gas vs ICE+Gas.

My trip from NJ->FL was maybe 2.5 hours longer than with the ICE.

But hey, with the ICE you're currently paying a premium for fueling convenience and speed. Doesn't really sell me on it, personally. I find the supercharger trips much more relaxing.

Edit: Side note, I've saved at least $1000 in fuel costs on road trips so far Tesla vs the Volt. I personally would much rather give that money to Tesla than to some random gas stations...

 

[tomas]

Mod Note: some posts went here Prospering-for-your-own-good-warranty-supercharging-proof-of-life-etc-etc

Thank you for attempting to ringfence the insanity.

 

[tga]

Mod Note: some posts went here Prospering-for-your-own-good-warranty-supercharging-proof-of-life-etc-etc

Thanks! Out of curiosity, why move vs outright delete? Does the software not allow it, or is it a mod policy decision (avoiding claims of censorship, etc)?

At some point, you have to agree, some babble isn't worth wasting space in the database. :smile:

 

[NigelM]

Thanks! Out of curiosity, why move vs outright delete? Does the software not allow it, or is it a mod policy decision (avoiding claims of censorship, etc)?

Deleting is generally reserved for offensive language, advertising, soliciting, obvious provocation etc. We do try to allow folks room to discuss topics in their own style and, as far as possible, give the benefit of the doubt to new members.

[/off topic]

 

[Vger]

I would echo all the positive comments on road-tripping, both with and without superchargers. Our numbers are very similar to Stevezzz's across the board.

And then I would ask the OP and their friends: You are unwilling to "compromise" with a little bit of your time, but you are fine with compromising the health, longevity, standard of living, prosperity, and happiness of your children by persisting in promoting climate change?

 

[David_Cary]

The problem with the Volt is that it is way too small for a roadtrip. I eliminated the Volt so quickly because the only significant thing it did better than the Leaf was roadtrip and it is too small for a roadtrip.

Trust me I understand that SC is just for roadtrips.

We have a beach house 135 miles away. It is a rental and we occasionally go and not stay - ie drop something off. No SC on the way. May need to drive slow in that case - 70 mph limit and 80 mph customary speed. For weekend trips (10 times a year), the Tesla will work great.

Inlaws are 160+ away and it takes about 20 extra minutes to stop by the SC (because of route not counting charge times). We at times drop the son off and head to the mountains (another 130 miles) with zero SC on the way. Stay at a cabin = no destination charging. Sure we can make it but have to hunt out a charger somewhere. In the mountains, that may not be possible. Western NC has a lot going for it that isn't Asheville.

These are our 2 common road trips.

I realize all the rationalization that you have to stop in an ICE vehicle but realistically 400 mile range even at 80 mph is pretty typical for an ICE. And then you just stop by and get gas sometime at the destination. On a long trip along I-95 or I-5 - sure SCs work great. But it doesn't work with 3-4 hour trips when you wouldn't usually stop along rural roads.

The fact that they are free is great. But you are talking about needing to supercharge several hundred times to make up the premium cost involved. I've done the math and I save about $300 a year in gas with a Tesla vs a second Leaf. The property tax on the Tesla eats that up even totally ignoring depreciation.

 

[huntjo]

As numerous other threads have arrived at: if you try to base your purchase solely on the economics of Model S vs. ICE of comparable size and amenities, you are not usually going to come down on the side of Model S unless you drive a lot of miles.

Really I think most people's point here is that you are underestimating the amount of time your current ICE stops take and are overestimating the inconvenience of charging stops- supercharger or otherwise. If you disagree, it is likely you are more suited to th ubiquitous gas refueling stations and may need to wait on your jump to Tesla until high speed charging is more prevalent for your occasional needs that seem to be the deal breakers.

 

[tomas]

@david... For your specific situation I'd advise 1) install 14-50 at in-laws (probably $300 or so). Don't get fancy, install near panel and use ext cord. That will give you approx 28 mi per hour of charging. You could also consider letting your in-laws drive tesla while you drive their car to cabin. Brownie points. 2) check reserveamerica.com for 50 amp RV sites near your cabin in western nc and reserveamerica, chargepoint, and plugshare for level 2 or 14-50 charging near beach rental. If a couple hours of layover at in laws, campground, etc on these trips is gonna kill you, another option is rent an ice for the times logistics demand. If that sounds daunting, hold off on tesla until your circumstances change or more charging emerges in your destination areas. If you work at it, this can usually be done. As many have said, we find the upside worth any changes in driving habits. Those changes melt away in time, the pleasure remains.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Sorry if covered, but from 1[SUP]st[/SUP] post, what stands out to me is why you can’t do at least 240v / 20 amps at your cabin. An 11mi/hr rate, if you’re overnight, should be plenty.

The second argument I’d make is you have to balance trip inconvenience, with daily gas station inconvenience. And, as the primary bread-winner, that for me would include throwing down with the SO over having to sit at a SC for 30 minutes, and/or taking a longer route.

As I am still in the ‘potential’ category, I have to say what bothers me most is I wouldn't even have the chance to triangulate use of SC’s, when I take trips north of Boston. That is because there aren’t any. We’re jumping with Teslas, here. It makes some of the upcoming PHEVs look more compelling, though I admit ~10kwh doesn't hold much appeal.

 

[swegman]

I love my P85 (own it for almost 1-1/2 yrs), but still worry about road trips. It all depends where I want to go. Driving up and down I95 is no problem on the east coast. Driving to Va. Beach is OK, but can't charge enough for the return trip the next day. If staying for several days, then could charge on 120/15A outlet, but that is not sufficient for a one day trip.

Still waiting for SC before can drive from Washington, DC area to AZ along I40, or from FL to AZ along I10. Been delaying such trips because I do not enjoy spending hours at an RV park to charge the car. The SC will get there one day, and then I will not worry anymore, but the time period for them seem to be falling further behind. For example, the 2014 map of SC's shows that at the end of 2014 you should be able to drive on I10 from FL to TX, and then I40 from TX to AZ, but I don't believe it. I do not see that there will be 200+ SC by the end of 2014.

 

[DennisLevitt]

Dear Original Poster:
Have you ever driven a Tesla? Have you spent enough time in one to begin to appreciate all the little things you can't possibly know about during a test drive? If you have, then you know how superior the Tesla is compared to an S-class Mercedes or a 7-series BMW or Audi A8 or Lexus. Why would you drive an inferior car 345 days a year because you don't want a few small compromises on road trips? You mentioned your wife. I'm guessing you have two cars. If you are still squeamish about an EV, maybe you take the ICE on road trips?

 

[invisik]

I did a road trip to a business meeting from Minneapolis, MN to Nashville, TN and back (about 1000 miles each way). It was the most enjoyable drive I've had in a long time. And I usually fly as I couldn't bear to think putting that many miles on the S500 and spending so much for gas. I was able to skip some of the superchargers as the 85 has great range. I stayed overnight in Indianapolis and charged at the Tesla Store there overnight. Had to do a plugshare HPWC in Kentucky but was only 2.5 hour stop (got some work done on my laptop) and made it the rest of the way (even stopped at the Corvette assembly plant--had no idea it was there if I hadn't driven!). The Nashville Service Center charged and washed my car for me while I was there.

On the way back I was really tired (I'm always wiped out from these meetings) so I decided to force myself to stop at every supercharger to stretch, etc. It's almost faster to charge just enough to get to the next supercharger then it is to skip one and charge longer. One supercharger stop I only needed like 8 minutes of charge time--was standing line for coffee and the car was already done! If you want to stop, even a quick one, you can do it. If you want to skip some, then skip some and drive longer.

I super geek out on the charging stops and the rated miles, etc, etc, so I had it all planned out beforehand in a spreadsheet. The weather was great and terrain pretty flat--my rated miles matched exactly to the driven miles most of the time. Had regular A/C on and made no driving habit changes either, usually 75 mph cruise control. I've already decided I'm going to do the run again next year, there will be a few more superchargers--I'm not mapping nothing, I'm just going.....

Each supercharger is kind of a mini-destination in itself. You can sit in the car and charge if you want (like in a gasser you have to stay with the car while it's fueling), or you can leave the car and poke around. Plugshare comments often have notes about great places nearby to visit. The superchargers I've visited are clean, safe, have some kind of security usually and well-lit areas. I've never thought, OMG I'm going to get killed here...... I fear roadside truck stops way more.

It's just different then what you're used to. It is better then you think. And give it a year for more superchargers to be installed, beautiful.....

-m

 

[David_Cary]

Dear Original Poster:
Have you ever driven a Tesla? Have you spent enough time in one to begin to appreciate all the little things you can't possibly know about during a test drive? If you have, then you know how superior the Tesla is compared to an S-class Mercedes or a 7-series BMW or Audi A8 or Lexus. Why would you drive an inferior car 345 days a year because you don't want a few small compromises on road trips? You mentioned your wife. I'm guessing you have two cars. If you are still squeamish about an EV, maybe you take the ICE on road trips?

Yes I have. Not spent enough time in to one to appreciate all the little things.
I suspect if the Tesla had seats as good as my 2005 545 (upgraded ones - 20 way adjustable), I might have one by now. I do not think the the Model S is in every way superior to an Audi A8 or 7 series. No way no how. Comparable - sure. But not in seat comfort which for me is one of the biggest things. So many people seem to roadtrip more but I just don't see it because my wife can't stand being in the car that long and I really don't think the seats in a Tesla are going to change that. My old 545 seats would get her to roadtrip more.

As stated before, I have a Leaf and an ICE now. The question is going ICE free.

To respond to another, we don't have a mountain cabin - we rent them. And there are significant day trips making 120V a tough work around. We could look at rentals and try to figure out if a dryer extension cord would work. I do like the idea of leaving the Tesla at the in laws and borrowing one of their cars. They would never drive the Tesla. They haven't even driven the Leaf and the Tesla's value would scare them too much. I've already checked their electric situation - laundry room is off the garage but I might need to punch a hole in the wall then cover it with a door. We have a beach house and installing 240 would be simple - and probably have value in the rental market..Any Tesla owner want to rent an oceanfront house with a charging station?....

 

[paulkva]

Coincidentally I just recently commented on another thread where someone else was talking about adding a 240V outlet to a Myrtle Beach area rental. EV-friendly rentals on the east coast are still pretty rare, so it would distinguish you in the market. Depending on the specific rental, location, etc., I might be interested at some point...

 

[Tedkidd]

Yes I have. Not spent enough time in to one to appreciate all the little things.
I suspect if the Tesla had seats as good as my 2005 545 (upgraded ones - 20 way adjustable), I might have one by now. I do not think the the Model S is in every way superior to an Audi A8 or 7 series. No way no how. Comparable - sure. But not in seat comfort which for me is one of the biggest things. So many people seem to roadtrip more but I just don't see it because my wife can't stand being in the car that long and I really don't think the seats in a Tesla are going to change that. My old 545 seats would get her to roadtrip more.

As stated before, I have a Leaf and an ICE now. The question is going ICE free.

To respond to another, we don't have a mountain cabin - we rent them. And there are significant day trips making 120V a tough work around. We could look at rentals and try to figure out if a dryer extension cord would work. I do like the idea of leaving the Tesla at the in laws and borrowing one of their cars. They would never drive the Tesla. They haven't even driven the Leaf and the Tesla's value would scare them too much. I've already checked their electric situation - laundry room is off the garage but I might need to punch a hole in the wall then cover it with a door. We have a beach house and installing 240 would be simple - and probably have value in the rental market..Any Tesla owner want to rent an oceanfront house with a charging station?....

Definitely NOT as nice as BMW or Mercedes seats. Possibly biggest weakness.