How many potential buyers worry about roadtrips?

[tomas]

Many excellent points above, and yet I would offer a slightly different answer.

Only buy the car if it makes sense for you. Neither you nor the EV movement will benefit from a mismatch.

There are several reasons a Tesla Model S may not suit you. If you routinely drive more than 200 miles in a day, it may be unreasonably time-consuming or impractical. If you are the kind of person whose cell phone is constantly running out of battery because you just can't make yourself remember to plug in at night, an EV will not be a good personality match. Or you might just not like it stylistically -- as much as we all drool over the iPad-like dashboard, maybe that just feels weird to you. (If you don't like the Model S exterior, however, please seek medical attention.)

The Model S is another step along the EV road. The first EVs with 50 mile range were only attractive to committed enthusiasts with modest and predictable driving needs. The Model S, with 200+ mile (actual, realistic) range, is suitable for a much broader spectrum of drivers, but still not all. If you are one of those folks for whom the Model S is not a good lifestyle match, that's fine! There are plenty of us for whom it works really well. Our purchases will fund development of the next generation of EV technology, which will appeal even more broadly. You will know when the time is right.

I cannot disagree with this... there are many who are just not ready. Though I believe that there are also many people out there who LOVE the car and really want to buy it, but are just paranoid about this point. The suggestions from owners on this thread might help them get over the paranoia and get into a car they really want. So, still a worthwhile activity to catalog how we all address range in real life.

 

[dsm363]

There aren't sufficient destination chargers and secondary highway superchargers yet for EVs to work for all trips. I'm convinced though, after 18 months with the S, that had this level of EV capability existed decades earlier no one would want a gas car because EVs are just so much nicer in every way.

As for not wanting to stop for 20 minutes on 3 hour trip with kids. If someone's time is so precious that those 20 minutes are a deal breaker, then they should be chauffeured or own a private helicopter.

And if someone's idea of a family trip is strapping small kids into a car for 3 hours without a break...that's not a family I'd want to be part of. I feel sorry for the children.

And for free fuel. Can you imagine how popular a gas station would be if they said you got free fuel but all you had to do was take a 25 min break and grab something to eat or some coffee?

 

[flashflood]

Yes, was just talking to my neighbor who wants and all electric vehicle, he currently owns 2 Prius's. His comment to me was he drives to Southern California to visit his daughter, the trip is around 450 miles and says they like to drive without stopping. He is retired and I said to him, what is the rush. You would need to stop twice and recharge for around 30 minutes, go to the bathroom and have lunch or a snack. This is the trade off for not having to buy gas!

If I were a real estate tycoon, I would buy all land within walking distance of Superchargers. Steady supply of rich people with time to kill. Great place to set up high-end shops and restaurants. You'd have customers with a demonstrated willingness to spend big for nice things, and you'd have almost no competition.

 

[Gwgan]

I’m a potential buyer with no SC’s anywhere near me for who knows how long and I’m really looking forward to long trips—trips I avoid now because I don’t want to put miles on the ICE and gas in the tank. Sure, charging slowly on some random PlugShare spot would be a new experience, but would it be worse? A cabin in the woods could be an issue but personally I would consider solar on site rather than a second vehicle (and rent in the meantime). +1 mgboyes.

 

[ckessel]

His comment to me was he drives to Southern California to visit his daughter, the trip is around 450 miles and says they like to drive without stopping.

This mindset continually boggles my mind. Someone won't stop for ~45 minutes on a trip like this to charge because time is so precious, but they'll spend 7 hours driving rather than 4 hours on a flight...just mind boggling.

I was talking to one guy who makes a long trip regularly, like 700 miles in a single day and said that the time spent charging would be a deal breaker. I asked why he doesn't fly and his response is that's it's cheaper to drive. So, he'll spend 11-12 hours on the road, taking 6-7 hours longer than a flight each way to save maybe $200 (plane tickets for 2), but spending an extra 90 minutes charging to save $100 of fuel is a deal breaker.

*my head then explodes*

 

[flashflood]

This mindset continually boggles my mind. Someone won't stop for ~45 minutes on a trip like this to charge because time is so precious, but they'll spend 7 hours driving rather than 4 hours on a flight...just mind boggling.

I was talking to one guy who makes a long trip regularly, like 700 miles in a single day and said that the time spent charging would be a deal breaker. I asked why he doesn't fly and his response is that's it's cheaper to drive. So, he'll spend 11-12 hours on the road, taking 6-7 hours longer than a flight each way to save maybe $200 (plane tickets for 2), but spending an extra 90 minutes charging to save $100 of fuel is a deal breaker.

*my head then explodes*

Reason is rarely persuasive. There's a growing body of research showing that we make key decisions emotionally, and use reason only to justify our choices.

I never evangelize my Model S on cold statistics, I just share with people how much I enjoy it. Happiness always resonates.

 

[omarsultan]

Unfortunately, most of the public has a dated image of EVs with regards to things like range and charging time (probably still one of the first questions I get about my MS). Folks like Toyota and Hyundai will work hard to amplify this FUD as they look to champion FCVs. Early adopters will do the homework to get answers, but most of the general buying public (i.e. the target audience for the Model 3) are going to be swayed by marketing, internet buzz and what their neighbor said.

I think the SC network will go a long way to addressing range and changing time and should be mostly filled in by the time the M3 hits, but destination charging is still a bit of a challenge. On recent business and personal trips, I let PlugShare pick my hotels for me, but not everyone will want to go that route.

I drive my MS everywhere and certainly don't have trip anxiety, but it is a bit of work. However, in return, my fuel costs and carbon footprint are minimized and driving fun is maximized, so its good trade-off in my eyes.

 

[ecarfan]

He actually "likes" to drive 450 miles without stopping? Wow. That sounds stressful and uncomfortable. I've done the SF area to LA area drive dozens of times in the past 15 years. I like to stop at least three times to take breaks and eat something. So it takes me another 45 - 60 minutes overall. No big deal. Now with the S and two or three Supercharger stops, those are my break periods. The trip takes me only a few minutes longer than it used to take in an ICE, but I actually feel better and more rested at the end of the journey. My wife noticed the same thing.

 

[DGates]

I just did a road trip through the Canadian rockies and back with my wife and 5 year old son. No superchargers and we drove 3600 km (2230 miles) in 2 weeks. Charged primarily using Sun Country level 2 chargers (80 and 90 Amps). We just planned our long drive days to start with a full charge, then stop for a lunch break. One day we had a second break in the afternoon and went swimming in a public pool while the car charged. It was a really great trip actually and totally without superchargers. With superchargers it would be a breeze.

 

[SFOTurtle]

I have to say, I've owned my MS for 18 months and have nearly 22k miles on her, and have been posting on TMC all this time, and there are a handful of posts on this thread that are perhaps the best summaries of why owning a MS and roadtripping are easily compatible. These folks perfectly capture what I feel about taking the MS out on long distance trips.

I've now taken dozens of roadtrips in our 60, many more than I thought I would before I bought the car. If I had known I would love driving my car so much and roadtripping, we would have bought an 85 just to give us a little more flexibility. But we've managed fine with our 60. Yes, there are a couple of trips we had to stop more than we would have if we owned a gas car. And you know what? Often those have been the most memorable, most enjoyable, most relaxing driving trips we've ever taken. We have learned to open our eyes and ears and appreciate things just by stopping every 2-3 hours while driving for a 20-30 minute break. On occasion, like this past weekend when I stopped at Harris Ranch to have breakfast before driving up to Fresno (currently the biggest charging wasteland in CA), that break might extend to an hour while we charge at a SC and have an unhurried meal. I have not once regretted my decision to switch to an electric car just because taking additonal charging stops are required for the occasional roadtrip.

 

[green1]

The problem isn't road trips with superchargers, it's road trips without them.

I have no issue stopping at a supercharger for 30 minutes every 3 hours of driving. I DO have a problem with stopping for 6-10 hours every 3 hours of driving at a non-supercharger, or worse yet simply having nowhere to charge. These are real issues depending on where you drive. The other very real problem that will affect me is trips I take now in an ICE vehicle that involve 2 hours of driving to somewhere in the middle of nowhere with no electricity, then camping for a couple days, then driving home. The Model S doesn't have the range for that, but basically every ICE does.

The whole world is currently built around the range of an ICE vehicle (500-700km roughly) if you have fewer fueling options on the road (and we do have far fewer in an EV) then you MUST at minimum have the same range to be useful for all people. Otherwise you handicap a great cruising car by limiting it to a commuter car or very specific routes where superchargers are available (in my whole country there is currently one supercharger total, in the second largest country on the planet. Even at the end of the planned map there will be only 3 major cities at one end of the country and another 3 at the other end connected by superchargers, with thousands of km in between unserviced.)

The Model S has way more range than is needed as a commuter car, but not enough to do a roadtrip without superchargers.

That said, I'll still buy the Tesla, but only because my wife will still have an ICE we can use when going places the Model S can't (which will be about a dozen times a year)

 

[romac]

Longer road trips with the opportunity to use Superchargers was a factor in purchasing the Model S. Within a few weeks after delivery, we plan a trip of 1600 miles plus. Plan to go from Scottsdale to San Diego, up through Los Angeles and Central California to San Jose and Fremont (factory tour) and return. Looking forward to the new adventure of planning the days driving, finding the Superchargers, meeting new Tesla friends along the way and enjoying the scenery. Come on September!

 

[SFOTurtle]

The problem isn't road trips with superchargers, it's road trips without them.

I have no issue stopping at a supercharger for 30 minutes every 3 hours of driving. I DO have a problem with stopping for 6-10 hours every 3 hours of driving at a non-supercharger, or worse yet simply having nowhere to charge. These are real issues depending on where you drive. The other very real problem that will affect me is trips I take now in an ICE vehicle that involve 2 hours of driving to somewhere in the middle of nowhere with no electricity, then camping for a couple days, then driving home. The Model S doesn't have the range for that, but basically every ICE does.

The whole world is currently built around the range of an ICE vehicle (500-700km roughly) if you have fewer fueling options on the road (and we do have far fewer in an EV) then you MUST at minimum have the same range to be useful for all people. Otherwise you handicap a great cruising car by limiting it to a commuter car or very specific routes where superchargers are available (in my whole country there is currently one supercharger total, in the second largest country on the planet. Even at the end of the planned map there will be only 3 major cities at one end of the country and another 3 at the other end connected by superchargers, with thousands of km in between unserviced.)

The Model S has way more range than is needed as a commuter car, but not enough to do a roadtrip without superchargers.

That said, I'll still buy the Tesla, but only because my wife will still have an ICE we can use when going places the Model S can't (which will be about a dozen times a year)

A number of our roadtrips have not involved Superchargers, or perhaps just one (Gilroy) if we were heading south along 101 before the SCs were put in on that route. You mentioned camping in your post. If you're stopping near a campsite, if they're like KOAs here, don't most of those have NEMA 14-50s you can use?

 

[green1]

A number of our roadtrips have not involved Superchargers, or perhaps just one (Gilroy) if we were heading south along 101 before the SCs were put in on that route. You mentioned camping in your post. If you're stopping near a campsite, if they're like KOAs here, don't most of those have NEMA 14-50s you can use?

I think you misunderstand what I mean by camping. it doesn't involve anywhere that a motor-vehicle of any form can get to. I backcountry camp, the car sits in an unserviced parking lot for the weekend while I hike in 10-20km, camp, and hike out again. Gets away from everything.

I'm not saying roadtrips without superchargers are impossible, just that they're impractical. not all of us can take an extra day or two to reach our destination, some of us have to be back at work at a certain time.

 

[Botbldr45]

FIRST ROADTRIP

My wife's second cousin passed away last week and she just needed to go to the memorial to deal with it. It was in northern NJ over 200 miles away. She bought her chocolate MS85 ten days ago and the the Honda hybrid was still in the driveway! What to do???
We looked at the google maps and found HamiltonMarket SC and got ready to hit the" SC HWY". Being a roadster owner I was feeling relatively self-righteous and arrogant about the whole thing. However, after leaving the Balto. Harbor Tunnel I began thinking........ Does this car really supercharge? What if all the stalls are ICED? If I drive highway speeds will 265 become 150? My Teslamania become a severe case of "Range Anxiety". I was so freaked that I stopped at Delaware SC to "see if it really worked". Guess what? DAH!!!

Ten minutes and maxed out ...... Felt like a moron! Easily made Hamiltom Market ....... Which was not necessary but still a little paranoid. Met an old guy, older than me which is amazing, leaning against a P85 texting his granddaughter! Talked for awhile about EVs and his passion for the success of Tesla and I began to calm down..............and after driving on the NJ Tpk that's amazing.

Tanked up and went to the Service for Cousin Bob. Headed back south on Sunday night and saw the map of the NJ Tpk outlined in red! Bad sign! Decided to detour out to Trenton NJ, go south on a parallel road which took us past the Hamilton Market SC again. Oh well ..... Stopped for Chipolte and the next 45 min made my weekend ...... Maybe my year so far! First.... I am a Class A personality type that can't bear to waste one minute in non-productive pursuits but pulling into the SC I saw a guy with a cowboy hat and a green wreath style hat band running around a white MS85 with spray cleaner doing his windows and hubcaps while he charged. We plugged in had to say,"Hi". He was retired military and was from AZ. He had driven all over the west and had completed a trip to Maine! He was on his way to VA for a graduation of sorts and was a total wealth of knowledge about SC travel........ Obviously! What a hoot!
My wife wondered off to talk to a guy from Mass that drives to PA on a regular basis and had a Roadster also. All four of us got together and talked all manor of Tesla ****. It was a blast. A quick Chipolte break became a 45 min relaxing break....... Never got to Chipolte! We all maxed out and went on our separate ways.

RANGE ANXIETY? ......... Heading up to Hagerstown this weekend to the SC and Outlet Stores up there ...... Then up to Somerset to visit family....... If I didn't have to work Monday I would probably keep going!!! It's a paradigm..... Break it! Freedom is not gas station, noise, pollution, molitoff cocktails. .......... It's meeting a guy in a cowboy hat and talking ****!:biggrin:

 

[adiggs]

FIRST ROADTRIP

My wife's second cousin passed away last week and she just needed to go to the memorial to deal with it. It was in northern NJ over 200 miles away. She bought her chocolate MS85 ten days ago and the the Honda hybrid was still in the driveway! What to do???
We looked at the google maps and found HamiltonMarket SC and got ready to hit the" SC HWY". Being a roadster owner I was feeling relatively self-righteous and arrogant about the whole thing. However, after leaving the Balto. Harbor Tunnel I began thinking........ Does this car really supercharge? What if all the stalls are ICED? If I drive highway speeds will 265 become 150? My Teslamania become a severe case of "Range Anxiety". I was so freaked that I stopped at Delaware SC to "see if it really worked". Guess what? DAH!!!

Ten minutes and maxed out ...... Felt like a moron! Easily made Hamiltom Market ....... Which was not necessary but still a little paranoid. Met an old guy, older than me which is amazing, leaning against a P85 texting his granddaughter! Talked for awhile about EVs and his passion for the success of Tesla and I began to calm down..............and after driving on the NJ Tpk that's amazing.

Tanked up and went to the Service for Cousin Bob. Headed back south on Sunday night and saw the map of the NJ Tpk outlined in red! Bad sign! Decided to detour out to Trenton NJ, go south on a parallel road which took us past the Hamilton Market SC again. Oh well ..... Stopped for Chipolte and the next 45 min made my weekend ...... Maybe my year so far! First.... I am a Class A personality type that can't bear to waste one minute in non-productive pursuits but pulling into the SC I saw a guy with a cowboy hat and a green wreath style hat band running around a white MS85 with spray cleaner doing his windows and hubcaps while he charged. We plugged in had to say,"Hi". He was retired military and was from AZ. He had driven all over the west and had completed a trip to Maine! He was on his way to VA for a graduation of sorts and was a total wealth of knowledge about SC travel........ Obviously! What a hoot!
My wife wondered off to talk to a guy from Mass that drives to PA on a regular basis and had a Roadster also. All four of us got together and talked all manor of Tesla ****. It was a blast. A quick Chipolte break became a 45 min relaxing break....... Never got to Chipolte! We all maxed out and went on our separate ways.

RANGE ANXIETY? ......... Heading up to Hagerstown this weekend to the SC and Outlet Stores up there ...... Then up to Somerset to visit family....... If I didn't have to work Monday I would probably keep going!!! It's a paradigm..... Break it! Freedom is not gas station, noise, pollution, molitoff cocktails. .......... It's meeting a guy in a cowboy hat and talking ****!:biggrin:

My personal story is different of course, but the takeaway leads to this advice - if you haven't yet been out on a roadtrip in your EV (whatever it is), invent an excuse if you have to and go for a roadtrip. For this purpose, I define a roadtrip as "drive far enough away from home/garage, that you have to charge at least 1 time to get home". Farther is better, but the point is to get out and mentally expand the circle within which your EV can operate.

I did that once in the Roadster, and the whole west coast is now in my mental range. The trip also shifted my personal definition of range anxiety - my personal definition is to drive a vehicle that isn't full every morning when you leave home; aka ICE car.

 

[wk057]

I've skipped all but the OP here, so, responding to the OP.

I've personally driven my Model S all over NC without any issues. There are multiple superchargers, and even J1772 chargers everywhere also. There is pretty much no where you can't get to in NC. When the Asheville and Charlotte superchargers are done (both on the short list last I checked) there will really be no excuse here because 100% of the state will be covered for round trips to and from anywhere else in the state using superchargers.

I also have an 80A Tesla HPWC listed on plugshare in western NC (family) that anyone is welcome to use, too.

I've driven 15k miles in my Model S since March. Road trips are definitely not an issue. The supercharger network makes every trip I've done since purchase possible and easy with near zero planning. Can literally just leave and go on a whim anywhere in the network, and with some minor planning outside of it.

And I don't really even pay attention to driving habits on trips anymore either. I can easily make it from southern NJ to western NC with two supercharger stops... same number of gas station stops I'd need in an ICE and not much more time taken.

The fact that the Model S *can* easily road trip is a huge decision factor. Zero emissions? Check. Fast charging? Check. Complete awesomeness? Double check!

- - - Updated - - -

On a side note... I've never had range anxiety in the Model S. Ever. However I've recent had it in an ICE... had 1/4 tank and was heading down the NJTP, passed the service station, and then the gas light came on with the next service station quite a ways down... all because I left with only 1/4 tank. With the Model S I leave home every morning with a full "tank."

 

[Btrflyl8e]

About a week or two before taking delivery, I had a fleeting moment of panic. Can I really drive electric? It was silly, I reasoned, because I only drive to work and back and errands. How could I have understood how this car changes the whole driving experience? I never even test drove one. Long story short, I am always trying to think of places we can go in the car. We drove it to Miami shortly after getting it, which was a 536 mile round trip. We just planned to arrive at the SC around a meal time. Figuring out the destination charging situation can be like a little adventure, and I will be glad when it isn't so challenging but it's not really a hassle. It just takes a little research sometimes.

Then again, I'm a leaper so... you have to know your own tolerance for doing things differently!

 

[NigelM]

On a side note... I've never had range anxiety in the Model S. Ever. However I've recent had it in an ICE... had 1/4 tank and was heading down the NJTP, passed the service station, and then the gas light came on with the next service station quite a ways down... all because I left with only 1/4 tank.

Couple days back I was returning an ICE rental to Seattle airport, low gas light pinged with about 30 miles to go....hey the range indicator showed 39 miles so I should be able to make it....well I'm not going to put more gas in now after all I'd paid for the tank full in advance....the display seemed stuck at 30 something miles for a while....then with about 3 miles to go the display changed to "range low"....aaaand a short while later I rolled into the return rental garage, Kramer style, and turned off the engine. Phew! :smile:

 

[CHGolferJim]

I rolled into the return rental garage, Kramer style, and turned off the engine. Phew! :smile:

View attachment 55082

Too funny that you thought "hey I need to take a snap for TMC"!