ai4px
Wes
the issue is they only had two EVSE's. I think Tesla wants 6. but the $0.01/kwh to admin the site is good to know.
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How much should the HOA charge? (I'm the HOA president)
- Thread starter hoa_ca
- Start date
I read in another thread they accept 4 now.
Depending on how much each post had, perhaps they can be split : load shared.
ai4px
Wes
thanks... once again good info.... but alas her apartment has two on one post already. One of the other residents with a Tesla actually runs a 120v cord out of their ground floor apartment. She's considering breaking her lease but has no legal ground because although the charger was listed as an amenity, it is not a legal requirement like running water. gads....
OP said the electric panel is in the garage. It would be straightforward, and code-compliant, to install a 240 Volt breaker dedicated to EVSE (EV Supply Equipment).
If it is a shared garage and the HOA wants off-peak charging only, it would be future-resilient to install the highest-Amp circuit possible, up to 100 Amps. This would allow a substantial number of EV-owning residents to get a full recharge overnight.
BIG BENEFIT: Property values will notch up when the parking area supports charging. EV owners will strongly prefer a residence where charging is not an issue.
I installed a consumer model ChargePoint at our vacation property. Now that it is listed as an amenity, the rental agent is getting calls from EV owners. I use the ChargePoint’s iPhone app to disable charging when family isn’t there or a renter who hasn’t requested access.
Pricedm
Member
Good to know this [Chargepoint EVSE] is another option for access-limited charging. For some applications, this can be desirable.
I would allow each EVSE to deliver its maximum capacity. The Tesla Wall Connectors allocate power very fairly. When two cars are charging on my home Gen 2 units, each gets 40 Amps - half of the 100 Amp circuit’s charging capacity. As one vehicle tapers, then completes, the other is permitted to draw more. My 2017 Model S can pull up to its max 72 Amps if my wife’s 3 only needs 8 Amps or less.
This maximizes power delivery while treating all connected vehicles fairly.
Imagine a Bolt, Ioniq, Y, R1T and Cybertruck are charging. At first, each receives 16 Amps. When the Bolt completes, the other four go up to 20 Amps. Once the Ioniq and Y are charged, both of the pickups get 40 Amps. This is near their max and raises the odds of completing the charge before driving away.
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It's only to handle payments. Everything else is the host's responsibility.
This makes sense for larger locations where the owners already have relationships with the contractors they need.
A few things. An EVSE connected to a 110v NEMA 5-15 outlet will typically only allow 12a @110v so max KW/hr = 1.3. The car does a good job of reporting number of hours charging so this can be used to estimate max kwh consumption.
I personally would encourage you and the HOA to expand access to 110v outlets rather than installing an expensive 208/240v system. 110V at 10-12amps will provide enough kwh/night to meet the needs of most commuters and even for those with very long commutes, it will extend the time between when they will need to top off at a public DCFC station. The idea that an HOA has to provide the ability for every EV owner to charge from 0->100% nightly is completely absurd and if attempted it will cause EV adoption to grind to a halt due to the extreme costs and needed increase in grid capacity. The only way mass EV adoption can happen is if EVs charge overnight at 110-120v at 8-12amps, and those who need more can visit a public DCFC as needed.
Here's my condo charging station:
My Condo EV charging station...
In 2019 I purchased a 2020 Prius Prime after Strata Council OKed me to use a 110V outlet beside my (secure) underground parking spot, as a charging station. Here's how I did it: I agreed to keep the charge rate to 8amps to avoid overheating/overloading the circuit. I purchased a simple...
teslamotorsclub.com
The above cost me ~$12. There are two other EV owners who paid $2-3 thousand each to add a 40amp 208v outlet at their charging stall. Both cars are immobile for most of each week. I've pointed out the absurdity of strata of owners paying the equivalent of ~50,000 miles of public DCFCing to install a dedicated 208v charging circuit. The building has a limited capacity to install 208v circuits due number of spare slots in the breaker panel and total panel capacity.
Eric33432
Member
There are many ways to do this depending on circumstances. If you have to install a new circuit, the cost for a 240 volt 15 or 20 amp circuit is very little more than a 120 volt circuit. I would try for 240 volt charging if the infrastructure could support it. A 15 or 20 amp circuit (at 240 volts), will take care of the vast majority of situations.A few things. An EVSE connected to a 110v NEMA 5-15 outlet will typically only allow 12a @110v so max KW/hr = 1.3. The car does a good job of reporting number of hours charging so this can be used to estimate max kwh consumption.
I personally would encourage you and the HOA to expand access to 110v outlets rather than installing an expensive 208/240v system. 110V at 10-12amps will provide enough kwh/night to meet the needs of most commuters and even for those with very long commutes, it will extend the time between when they will need to top off at a public DCFC station. The idea that an HOA has to provide the ability for every EV owner to charge from 0->100% nightly is completely absurd and if attempted it will cause EV adoption to grind to a halt due to the extreme costs and needed increase in grid capacity. The only way mass EV adoption can happen is if EVs charge overnight at 110-120v at 8-12amps, and those who need more can visit a public DCFC as needed.
Here's my condo charging station:
My Condo EV charging station...
In 2019 I purchased a 2020 Prius Prime after Strata Council OKed me to use a 110V outlet beside my (secure) underground parking spot, as a charging station. Here's how I did it: I agreed to keep the charge rate to 8amps to avoid overheating/overloading the circuit. I purchased a simple...
The above cost me ~$12. There are two other EV owners who paid $2-3 thousand each to add a 40amp 208v outlet at their charging stall. Both cars are immobile for most of each week. I've pointed out the absurdity of strata of owners paying the equivalent of ~50,000 miles of public DCFCing to install a dedicated 208v charging circuit. The building has a limited capacity to install 208v circuits due number of spare slots in the breaker panel and total panel capacity.
I'm afraid I have to disagree that 110v (technically 120v) is adequate except if that, truly, is the only option.
The real minimum goal for anyplace should to have a 240v outlet 20 - 40 amp (16 - 32 amp usable) connected to a homeowner's main electrical power meter and service. Anything less, including an EV charging service provider, especially shared resources or the lower voltage, is going to be more expensive and/or sub-optimal, making the EV a pain.
Regarding 120v -vs- 240v: a dedicated 20 amp circuit for each charging circuit is the only safe option in either case. Sharing a 120v circuit with normal household loads is not safe. The same wire can carry either 120 or 240v, the main issue is what extra capacity is available in the service panel. 240v really isn't much more expensive but will provide much more satisfying charging rate.
I lived with a 120v outlet-only for while on my short range Nissan Leaf, before DCFC were readily available. Having a long commute, but, luckily, with charging available at the office, It did work but: I still had to think carefully about how I was going to have enough charge if I got home late or had errands to run.
Large Condo complexes generally have 110v/208v AC power. My 10 story plus 2 x 3 story building condo has ~250 parking stalls. Can you imagine how much additional capacity we'd need to supply 208v/40a (8kw) to every car in the complex? What you're suggest isn't even physically possible in our building without installing new panels and building a new electrical room. However, 8kw is enough to supply 8 cars with 1 kw/hr of power.
Again, if you have a long commute it's unreasonable to expect 0-100% charging/night in a condo complex. It might work now, when few people drive EVs but it won't work in the future when we have mass adoption, What will work is large scale low wattage charging with those who need more stopping weekly or so at a public DCFC.
Yep, this is exactly what I refer to by:
and
is exactly what I referred to by:
or
Either way, it's going to be suboptimal until someone pays to put in the infrastructure, whether it is someone else paying for a public location or you and your fellow complex residents paying to upgrade yours.
I have family with exactly this same problem in a condo and have tried to help solve the problem so I fully understand it. It's a fundamental limitation/flaw of condos. Condos, almost by definition, are built by real estate developers, many of whom, as exemplified, IMHO, by a particular candidate for US President, personify the worst kind of capitalists. By purchasing a condo, you are ceding much or your decision making authority to these folks. While some are't as bad as the aforementioned presidential candidate (who famously built Atlantic city by hiring 3rd party shadow companies to hire most of his subcontractors and then dissolved the shadow companies so he didn't have to pay either the subcontractors of the shadow companies), they will pocket every penny of yours that they can which often means cheaping out by installing minimum power capacity with no room for expansion.
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Take your 8 kW circuit and use Tesla Universal Wall Connectors on a shared setup. The system will split the available power across all cars. If one car is charging, it gets 8 kW. If four cars are charging, they each get 2 kW. The beauty of Tesla's system is integrated billing, so each vehicle owner gets billed for what they use, and the association can add a mark-up to cover costs and/or fund maintenance.
Not only that but 208V is so much more efficient than 110/120V you'd be able to charge probably 30% more cars just on the efficiency increase with the same power consumption
That just doesn't really make any sense to intentionally target doing 120V lines, because of:
Exactly. The cost difference of putting in either a 120V 15A outlet or a 240V 15A outlet is $0. There is no point putting in something that only provides half the power, when the installation and equipment cost are literally the same.
@DuncanM Since you're talking about "expand access to 110V outlets", that means running new wire to locations. So that's the cost outlay anyway. Using 120V on that instead of 240V just doesn't make sense, since it's the same wire.
My condo is run by an elected strata council and the building is entire occupant owned. It was built in the early 1980s, at a time when mass adoption of EVs was strictly sci-fi.
OK, then let me put this another way. Why put in 10 lines of 120V instead of 5 lines of 240V? That would be the same power load on the panel, but the 120V lines would cost twice as much for the installation, be hardly useful at all, and intensely frustrating for the residents. Minimum reasonable usefulness needs to be a consideration in things like this, even if there needs to be some sharing or reserving or whatever among residents.
