HV Battery Replacement Guide For Early MS 85kWh Pack Including Part Numbers And Prices (April/May 2023)

gt2690b · Jun 9, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Well, you did that calculation assuming that 200,000 miles' worth of electricity cost $0. It isn't. It's cheaper than gas, but does cost something. I see EV fans do this frequently.

I also ignored oil changes, tune ups, spark plugs, transmission fluid changes, differential fluid changes, and any other ice maintenance that's typically more than electricity costs.. not to mention the cars talked about in this thread have free supercharging

Gremlin · Jun 21, 2023

zwede said:
Only 39k miles. Seems this fault is triggered more by time than mileage.

I have 104K miles on my 2016 90D. Range is new was 296, now it more like 261 with 21 inches rims on the car. So far so good. It's garaged though

houstonian · Jul 6, 2023

gt2690b said:
10 years at 20k per year 200k miles / 20 mpg = 10,000 gallons * $4 = $40,000 vs 20k seems like a significant savings to me

Rocky_H said:
Well, you did that calculation assuming that 200,000 miles' worth of electricity cost $0. It isn't. It's cheaper than gas, but does cost something. I see EV fans do this frequently.

The variability of fuel keeps it interesting and the potential of """free""" electricity keeps it enticing.

Did the posts below a while back and tried to sus out the cost nuances.

Which goes further for $43 - a Tesla or a Gas Car?

In 2015, when I bought my Tesla Model S, critics with gas cars told me that no matter the 5 to 6 times higher efficiency of EV's, that the charging stations would just charge more for electricity, and we wouldn't benefit from the higher efficiency of EV's. They would take advantage, and we...

teslamotorsclub.com

Which goes further for $43 - a Tesla or a Gas Car?

And Tesla charges 28 cents per kW at a Supercharger Unless you're driving a Model S or X, where the charge is zero. (yes, I know we paid for supercharging in the price of the car.)

teslamotorsclub.com

Dhnelson26 · Oct 16, 2023

Tony73 said:
Curious what your mileage was ?

zwede said:
My 2013 P85+ got the infamous bms_u029 "Charge level reduced" last week and after reading up on the forum and going back and forth with Tesla Service I decided to write up what I learned. Much of this info is available on this forum but buried in various threads. My hope is to make this post complete enough so people who find themselves in this situation will have to spend less time searching for info.

First things first: bms_u029 is the end of the pack. It is not repairable. It is not a false alarm.

There are 3rd party options for replacement packs. This post is not about them, it is about options from Tesla Service.

The following is for the US market. If you're in a different part of the world things may be different.

Tesla offers two options:

Option 1: Remanufactured 85kWh pack

Service will order you a reman pack. There's a gamble aspect to this: If Tesla doesn't have any reman packs in stock they will provide a software locked brand new 90kWh pack for the same price. But they won't tell you what you're getting until you pick up the car and it's too late to back out. The 90kWh pack will be locked to 85kWh and can be unlocked for the full 90kWh for $700-$1,000 (heard both numbers, unsure which is correct).

If you're lucky and get the new pack the final invoice will list an updated part number for the pack. The new pack requires installation of "Shear plates". The additional cost of the shear plates is goodwilled in case you ordered a reman pack.

1088815-01-B Remanufactured 85kWh pack. This pack is likely to have previous battery degradation.
1918190-85-A This is a new 1014116-00-C 90kWh battery that has been software locked to 85kWh

Prices:

1088815-01-B Reman Battery $13,500
Various nuts/bolts/coolant ~$100-$200
Labor $400

Total cost (Can vary between Service Centers)
~$14,000 + tax

Option 2: Guaranteed new 90kWh pack

If you're like me and don't gamble Tesla offers a guaranteed new 90kWh battery at additional cost. The new pack requires installation of "Shear plates" that adds to the parts cost.

1014116-00-C

New 90kWh battery.

Prices:

1014116-00-C New 90kWh Battery $17,000
Various nuts/bolts/coolant/shear plates $342
Labor $400

Total cost (Can vary between Service Centers)
$17,742 + tax

Both options come with a 4 year/50k mile warranty.

Differences between reman 1088815-01-B pack and 1014116-00-C/1918190-85-A new pack:

The 1088815-01-B reman pack is a 16 module 400V pack, the same as originally installed. To the best of my knowledge it will not have new cells. These are packs that failed due to bad BMS boards, wiring etc but the cells themselves were ok. The pack will have degradation and still be part of "charge gate", or slowed down supercharging speeds. Range can be up to 265 miles but will likely be lower due to degradation.

The 1014116-00-C/1918190-85-A new pack is a 14 module 350V pack. It's basically a modern 100kWh pack with 2 modules removed. Once installed the car should no longer be part of "charge gate" and get much faster super charging speeds. Range for the locked 1918190-85-A is 272 miles. The 1014116-00-C (or unlocked 1918190-85-A) is 297 miles.

Hope this helps! Additions/corrections always welcome!

View attachment 934639
"Tesla Model S electric car at Berkeley, San Francisco

Dhnelson26 · Oct 16, 2023

Thank you! Excellent info
I have a 2013 P85+ with 183K miles and the battery is getting weak. It charges 90% to 184 miles only and 199 miles at 100%. Still good for daily errands but a pain for long trips. So know I know I need to have $18K prepared

Lasttoy · Oct 29, 2023

Funny thing happened last month. My remanufactured pack died. Installed Dec 2020. I called SC. Can I buy a NEW 90kw for my car?
Got same answer I got last time. NO, won't work in your car. Now I wish I had gone 100 miles to different SC and tried it. I will investigate buying a 90kw. There has to be some good used 90s on the market.

aerodyne · Oct 29, 2023

Lasttoy said:
Funny thing happened last month. My remanufactured pack died. Installed Dec 2020. I called SC. Can I buy a NEW 90kw for my car?
Got same answer I got last time. NO, won't work in your car. Now I wish I had gone 100 miles to different SC and tried it. I will investigate buying a 90kw. There has to be some good used 90s on the market.

Sorry to hear that. I'm thinking any older used pack approaching 8 years could fail suddenly.

Would you consider a new 350v pack based on a 100KwH pack, with two modules removed?

ChiefRollo · Oct 29, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Well, you did that calculation assuming that 200,000 miles' worth of electricity cost $0. It isn't. It's cheaper than gas, but does cost something. I see EV fans do this frequently.

Should we not account for ICE replacement cost?

Rocky_H · Nov 1, 2023

ChiefRollo said:
Should we not account for ICE replacement cost?

I was responding to your specific isolated statement comparing ONLY the difference in fuel cost savings. Why would car replacement or engine replacement be a part of that?

But when looking at a total cost of ownership comparison, sure, all costs should be included in both cases. I never claimed they shouldn't.

ChiefRollo · Nov 1, 2023

Rocky_H said:
I was responding to your specific isolated statement comparing ONLY the difference in fuel cost savings. Why would car replacement or engine replacement be a part of that?

But when looking at a total cost of ownership comparison, sure, all costs should be included in both cases. I never claimed they shouldn't.

I see. I became an EV fan (as you refer to all of us) back when free and unlimited supercharging was part of Tesla vehicles. I still have it and will have it transferred to the new X. Beyond FUSC, I as I believe to be the case with some of us also have solar panels that have produced more than home needs (credit accrual with local utility company) that can support "free" home charging.

gt2690b · Nov 1, 2023

ChiefRollo said:
I see. I became an EV fan (as you refer to all of us) back when supercharging is free and unlimited. I still have it and will have it transferred to the new X. Beyond FUSC, I as I believe to be the case with some of us also have solar panels that have produced more than home needs (credit with local utility company) that can support "free" home charging.

solar not free though.. after incentives its about $.04/kwh lifetime so add $.01 per mile on to your electricity cost for solar panels... which.. compared to gas.. is basically free

Rocky_H · Nov 1, 2023

ChiefRollo said:
I as I believe to be the case with some of us also have solar panels that have produced more than home needs (credit with local utility company) that can support "free" home charging.

Ah. I'm going to drop several tens of thousand dollars of money so I can have the thing be "free". *eyeroll*
I have solar too, but I don't buy the delusion that it means the resulting energy is free. It's just amortized over a long time.

ChiefRollo · Nov 1, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Ah. I'm going to drop several tens of thousand dollars of money so I can have the thing be "free". *eyeroll*
I have solar too, but I don't buy the delusion that it means the resulting energy is free. It's just amortized over a long time.

Not sure about your situation but my "amortized" amount was less than my prior 12-month average electric bill. Not doing solar simply meant I would continue to pay what you refer to as amortized in perpetuity.

In short, buying the S and getting solar panel when I did were and have proven to be non-brainers.

maximizese · Nov 1, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Ah. I'm going to drop several tens of thousand dollars of money so I can have the thing be "free". *eyeroll*
I have solar too, but I don't buy the delusion that it means the resulting energy is free. It's just amortized over a long time.

I guess when doing the math for me, the net cost for my 4.8kW solar array was $10K back in Spring 2016 and included the installation of a sub-panel and 80ft run for a 50A EVSE line with NEMA 14-50R. Net-metering 1.0 agreement and TOU arbitrage of effectively getting $.44 per kWh generated between 2pm-8pm, then being charged $.11 during 10pm-8am got the system to pay for itself quite quickly. The utility company has changed their NEM policy for new customers and the rates and time windows have changed to be more balanced, but I'd say our payback period took about little less than 6 years.

And to further lower our cost for electricity, my wife is know a K-1 partner and works out of our home office so we can write-off about 20% of our electricity (gas and water is really quite negligible) since her dedicated office is about a fifth of our house.

kpanda17 · Nov 2, 2023

maximizese said:
I guess when doing the math for me, the net cost for my 4.8kW solar array was $10K back in Spring 2016 and included the installation of a sub-panel and 80ft run for a 50A EVSE line with NEMA 14-50R. Net-metering 1.0 agreement and TOU arbitrage of effectively getting $.44 per kWh generated between 2pm-8pm, then being charged $.11 during 10pm-8am got the system to pay for itself quite quickly. The utility company has changed their NEM policy for new customers and the rates and time windows have changed to be more balanced, but I'd say our payback period took about little less than 6 years.

And to further lower our cost for electricity, my wife is know a K-1 partner and works out of our home office so we can write-off about 20% of our electricity (gas and water is really quite negligible) since her dedicated office is about a fifth of our house.

This is my goal
I’m not in Texas but learning from you
As for the PWs, we don’t have VPP here yet
Seems without VPP or the ability to sell back/net meter from the batteries, there is no ROI on the PWs, do I have this correct?

Rocky_H · Nov 2, 2023

Good grief. Someone makes the absurd claim that having solar means their total energy cost is $0.00, and I simply pointed out that this cannot mathematically be true. It has a lower long term cost that does continue to reduce the longer it lasts, but can't ever get as low as $0.00.

And then people jump on me thinking I am opposed to solar. I'm not. It's certainly a good idea, which is why I have it. I just hate to see these kinds of false exaggerations even if it is in support of something good. (ESPECIALLY when it is in support of something good, because you/we should be better than that.) If your point has merit, you shouldn't have to lie to support it.

gt2690b · Nov 2, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Good grief. Someone makes the absurd claim that having solar means their total energy cost is $0.00, and I simply pointed out that this cannot mathematically be true. It has a lower long term cost that does continue to reduce the longer it lasts, but can't ever get as low as $0.00.

And then people jump on me thinking I am opposed to solar. I'm not. It's certainly a good idea, which is why I have it. I just hate to see these kinds of false exaggerations even if it is in support of something good. (ESPECIALLY when it is in support of something good, because you/we should be better than that.) If your point has merit, you shouldn't have to lie to support it.

yeah even if somehow your math is coming out to you making money youre making less money because you still have to charge your car and you are losing money you could have made (opportunity cost)...

ChiefRollo · Nov 2, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Good grief. Someone makes the absurd claim that having solar means their total energy cost is $0.00, and I simply pointed out that this cannot mathematically be true. It has a lower long term cost that does continue to reduce the longer it lasts, but can't ever get as low as $0.00.

And then people jump on me thinking I am opposed to solar. I'm not. It's certainly a good idea, which is why I have it. I just hate to see these kinds of false exaggerations even if it is in support of something good. (ESPECIALLY when it is in support of something good, because you/we should be better than that.) If your point has merit, you shouldn't have to lie to support it.

This is part of discourse and I don't see a need to be agitated. If my thought process is wrong, I would appreciate your effort to enlighten me. Regarding "free" energy in the solar panel context, I agree that there is a cost associated with the hardware and installation; how can we not? When viewing such cost through monthly financing over a period of years (5 for me) lens and realizing that it's within what one has been paying for electricity all along, in that specific context whatever energy the solar panels bring, it's free. If you have unique experience in say how poorly these panels function and that they last less than the financing period, that would be greatly appreciated as good insight. Then, we can talk about how well or not so well the warranty period covers it. As it stands, not knowing what I don't know, my 5-year financing period has come to an end recently. With a 25-year warranty, I fully expect the panels to function as expected for another 20 years; that 20 years of zero amortization or electric bill.

By the way, you have proven to flex the context of the discussion as you see fit to "argue" your point. This all started within the context of those with FUSC and its value; in that context I colored my calculation as back of the napkin (to indicate to those such as yourselves it's not worth contorting over) and pointed out what I would have paid for gas per mile if I went with an ICE alternative (which I was considering before seeing the Model S back in 2018).

maximizese · Nov 2, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Good grief. Someone makes the absurd claim that having solar means their total energy cost is $0.00, and I simply pointed out that this cannot mathematically be true. It has a lower long term cost that does continue to reduce the longer it lasts, but can't ever get as low as $0.00.

And then people jump on me thinking I am opposed to solar. I'm not. It's certainly a good idea, which is why I have it. I just hate to see these kinds of false exaggerations even if it is in support of something good. (ESPECIALLY when it is in support of something good, because you/we should be better than that.) If your point has merit, you shouldn't have to lie to support it.

I'm not sure who you're directing your comments towards. Not sure why you think people think you're opposed to solar. Is there something I'm missing (other than my typos from my previous post#54)?

Videomatic3 · Nov 2, 2023

Rocky_H said:
Good grief. Someone makes the absurd claim that having solar means their total energy cost is $0.00, and I simply pointed out that this cannot mathematically be true. It has a lower long term cost that does continue to reduce the longer it lasts, but can't ever get as low as $0.00.

And then people jump on me thinking I am opposed to solar. I'm not. It's certainly a good idea, which is why I have it. I just hate to see these kinds of false exaggerations even if it is in support of something good. (ESPECIALLY when it is in support of something good, because you/we should be better than that.) If your point has merit, you shouldn't have to lie to support it.

i just think of it as prepaying for electricity.
the payback period of my solar was about 8 years, so i prepaid for 8 years worth of electricity, and theres no end to it. so as long as i live longer than 8 years i should be ahead in the end.

1088815-01-B	Remanufactured 85kWh pack. This pack is likely to have previous battery degradation.
1918190-85-A	This is a new 1014116-00-C 90kWh battery that has been software locked to 85kWh

1088815-01-B Reman Battery	$13,500
Various nuts/bolts/coolant	~$100-$200
Labor	$400
Total cost (Can vary between Service Centers)	~$14,000 + tax

1014116-00-C New 90kWh Battery	$17,000
Various nuts/bolts/coolant/shear plates	$342
Labor	$400
Total cost (Can vary between Service Centers)	$17,742 + tax

HV Battery Replacement Guide For Early MS 85kWh Pack Including Part Numbers And Prices (April/May 2023)

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