HW2.5 capabilities

[verygreen]

Thanks. So the assumption is that AP2 cars will get a free upgrade?

I have as much visibility into that as you do - i.e. zero
I do see references in the code that HW2.5 does not equal model 3, i.e. the checks are separate (Even though they did appear at the same time).

The biggest risk is there'd going to be S/X refresh including interior refresh and new cid platform leadign to stopped (or greatly slowed down) development for current cars for actual user-visible UI (I am glad AP code is mostly shared - that ensures autopilot will get updates)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I have as much visibility into that as you do - i.e. zero
I do see references in the code that HW2.5 does not equal model 3, i.e. the checks are separate (Even though they did appear at the same time).

The biggest risk is there'd going to be S/X refresh including interior refresh and new cid platform leadign to stopped (or greatly slowed down) development for current cars for actual user-visible UI (I am glad AP code is mostly shared - that ensures autopilot will get updates)

Frankly I think @verygreen 's pessimism is more warranted IMO. Tesla may swap the CPU/GPU for FSD purchasers, but I find it less likely they would add sensors/cameras.

Let's face it: Model 3 is Tesla's next-gen. Current Model S/X are now old hat.

 

[alcibiades]

Frankly I think @verygreen 's pessimism is more warranted IMO. Tesla may swap the CPU/GPU for FSD purchasers, but I find it less likely they would add sensors/cameras.

Let's face it: Model 3 is Tesla's next-gen. Current Model S/X are now old hat.

Nah. Tesla is in the hole for the entire HW2 fleet. Layman reading of their site is that all HW2 cars have the necessary hardware for FSD -- as depicted in the video -- and as claimed capable all over the Tesla site. Class action lawsuit would be a firm's dream. All that sweet, sweet Model 3 money will pay for our hardware upgrades.

 

[verygreen]

Nah. Tesla is in the hole for the entire HW2 fleet. Layman reading of their site is that all HW2 cars have the necessary hardware for FSD -- as depicted in the video -- and as claimed capable all over the Tesla site. Class action lawsuit would be a firm's dream. All that sweet, sweet Model 3 money will pay for our hardware upgrades.

I am not a native speaker so it might be not important, but I do not see a very important all word in that all cars have the hardware for FSD now.
So certainly there's some hardware, would it be fully sufficient to match later cars? That we will see.

 

[alcibiades]

I am not a native speaker so it might be not important, but I do not see a very important all word in that all cars have the hardware for FSD now.
So certainly there's some hardware, would it be fully sufficient to match later cars? That we will see.

 

[lunitiks]

Sooo.... The question is what "full" means, then?

 

[calisnow]

Has anyone determined anything about the sensor quality of the AP2 camera imaging chips? Resolution, light sensitivity etc?

 

[verygreen]

Has anyone determined anything about the sensor quality of the AP2 camera imaging chips? Resolution, light sensitivity etc?

it's all the ap2 thread: AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations? start on page 2

 

[bjornb]

@verygreen you mentioned here that HW 2.5 are two nodes networked. We have discussed in the AP2 camera thread from here onwards about the content of the HW2 installation etc.
Do you have any insight into the content of the new second node and what runs there?

 

[verygreen]

@verygreen you mentioned here that HW 2.5 are two nodes networked. We have discussed in the AP2 camera thread from here onwards about the content of the HW2 installation etc.
Do you have any insight into the content of the new second node and what runs there?

it also runs Linux, that's about all I know at this point.
Need that model 3 firmware dump to know more.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Nah. Tesla is in the hole for the entire HW2 fleet. Layman reading of their site is that all HW2 cars have the necessary hardware for FSD -- as depicted in the video -- and as claimed capable all over the Tesla site. Class action lawsuit would be a firm's dream. All that sweet, sweet Model 3 money will pay for our hardware upgrades.

Sure they can upgrade the FSD CPU/GPU if need be, but would they add new sendors to the suite? I doubt it, though I agree retrofitting an interior camera would not be impossible if it connects to the AP2 unit. Any more sensors I can not see them adding at all...

For example, if the interior camera is required for Tesla Network, AP2 cars may never get Tesla Network even if they get some (good weather) FSD...

We shall see, but IMO it is smart to consider current AP2 as legacy and treat it with according scepticism. Makes for less disappointments.

 

[CSFTN]

A relatively non-technical person with a technical question: as far as retrofitting the hardware and the difficulties of adding to the wiring harness, isn't it possible they could splice an additional camera onto one of the exiting data and power lines, and use time-dependent interlacing to run 2 signals over one cable? i.e. each camera capturing 30 frames per sec, transmitting over 1 cable at 60 Hz with its paired camera doing the same, but alternating windows?

 

[verygreen]

A relatively non-technical person with a technical question: as far as retrofitting the hardware and the difficulties of adding to the wiring harness, isn't it possible they could splice an additional camera onto one of the exiting data and power lines, and use time-dependent interlacing to run 2 signals over one cable? i.e. each camera capturing 30 frames per sec, transmitting over 1 cable at 60 Hz with its paired camera doing the same, but alternating windows?

yes, they already use deserializers internally so it's probably feasible, but you still need to replace like whole tri-camera block then (likely need to do anyway to add the driver-facing camera?)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

yes, they already use deserializers internally so it's probably feasible, but you still need to replace like whole tri-camera block then (likely need to do anyway to add the driver-facing camera?)

Out of all possible sensor retrofits, interior camera wiring to glovebox APE seems at least feasible. As does replacing the enclosure around the mirror. These are relatively common retrofits in cars as phone microphones and phonekits are often routed and installed between these two exact locations...

So, possible. Still, seems unlikely to me that AP2 cars would be upgraded beyond potential CPU/GPU upgrades (if even that).

IMO most likely scenario is: AP2 is now obsolete (in the sense not the latest).

Model 3 is Tesla AP version 3.

 

[lunitiks]

Out of all possible sensor retrofits, interior camera wiring to glovebox APE seems at least feasible. As does replacing the enclosure around the mirror. These are relatively common retrofits in cars as phone microphones and phonekits are often routed and installed between these two exact locations...

I can't see this happening...

First off: You can't simply swap the Model S/X tri-cam block with the Model 3 unit without replacing the entire windshield. All three cars have different windshields, and the mounting brackets for the enclosures are actually stuck (glued) to the windshield itself. The black area around / in front of the enclosures are different too. Retrofitting the Model 3 tri-cam block onto ap2 S/X would be a SC nightmare. The only solution would have to be Tesla designing and manufacturing new tri-cam blocks for the S and the X specifically, that would fit with existing windshields. (Is this even realistic, given Teslas track record on retrofitting new tech on older cars?)

Secondly: Outfitting ap2-cars with a new tri-cam block with a driver cam would probably also require changing the AP2ECU inside the dash. I haven't seen any free connectors in the AP2ECU for such a camera to date.

Third: The wiring wouldn't be an "easy peasy" one hour job. I seriously doubt that Tesla would do a "dash cam"-type install, i.e. just tucking the HSD-wire behind fastened panels using fish tape and plastic tools. Headlining and panels would probably have to come off. The wire should be secured to prevent rattling/damage/sticking out. The procedure would also be different on the X vs the S.

Fourth (pure speculation): What if the Model 3 driver facing cam is wired to the CID? Either directly or through the AP2.5ECU somehow? I'm thinking internet connection or some unknown features. Would the S and the X also need a touchscreen replacement? If that's the case, I'm completely ruling out the possibility of a tri-cam block "retrofit"...

Thoughts?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@lunitiks Reasonable thinking.

 

[J1mbo]

Fair assuption to make. Would be interesting to see a schematic - they could have put a multiplexer inside the quad-cam unit, to cut down on wiring, in which case a retrofit could be a lot easier (single feed instead of four feeds).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

One thing where I think @lunitiks is wrong, though, is the windshield part. I do not think the camera cover is glued to the windshield - its base may be, but not the cover itself... so possibly it could be replaced more easily with a cover that houses an interior camera.

 

[lunitiks]

I do not think the camera cover is glued to the windshield

I probably didn't phrase it correctly. What I meant was that a plastic frame with some clips and screw holes (that you mount the glare shield, HVAC-sensor and mirror-cover assembly to), is stuck to the windshield. The same goes for that black area around the block

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I probably didn't phrase it correctly. What I meant was that a plastic frame with some clips and screw holes (that you mount the glare shield, HVAC-sensor and mirror-cover assembly to), is stuck to the windshield. The same goes for that black area around the block

Yes, but I am not sure if that glued part would need to be changed if the internal cover and wiring (which are not glued) were to be replaced with a cabin camera version...