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Hydrogen vs. Battery
- Thread starter siry
- Start date
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Every time I see "Hydrogen vs. Battery" in the new posts list I cringe a little bit and think to myself:
surely no one is still debating this...
surely no one is still debating this...
Unfortunately they still are. The hydrogen dog and pony show just moves on to the next country with gullible politicians and the whole thing starts again. There's also a fairly strong correlation with right wing governments supporting it, so I guess you guys are in for another round, especially as big oil just took over the government. When an oil man says we need to encourage means to reduce our carbon emissions, guess what's coming?
The brainwashing of the public is quite effective. People think hydrogen is zero emissions and gives fast fill ups and accept this without question. I've had electricians tell me they will never buy an EV and are waiting for hydrogen. Another Roadster owner tells me a guy ran over to tell him his car was obsolete when he parked up next to a hydrogen pump. Also see the letter published here https://speakev.com/threads/car-magazine-letter-the-inconvenient-truth-of-electric-cars.26153/
The brainwashing of the public is quite effective. People think hydrogen is zero emissions and gives fast fill ups and accept this without question. I've had electricians tell me they will never buy an EV and are waiting for hydrogen. Another Roadster owner tells me a guy ran over to tell him his car was obsolete when he parked up next to a hydrogen pump. Also see the letter published here https://speakev.com/threads/car-magazine-letter-the-inconvenient-truth-of-electric-cars.26153/
For the German speakers here: http://www.mobilitaetstalk.de/htm/de/pdf/loescheter_horst_elektromobilitaet.pdf
This looks like a hit job on EVs from Volkswagen but they inadvertently confirm that hydrogen is a bad idea with the numbers on slide 42.
The title slide says it was given by the head of VW's research activities, but the metadata says it was written in 2012 by Dr Eva Schiesswohl, a young engineer there who did her PhD thesis on fuel cell cold start systems.
This looks like a hit job on EVs from Volkswagen but they inadvertently confirm that hydrogen is a bad idea with the numbers on slide 42.
The title slide says it was given by the head of VW's research activities, but the metadata says it was written in 2012 by Dr Eva Schiesswohl, a young engineer there who did her PhD thesis on fuel cell cold start systems.
green1
Active Member
If only battery manufacturers had the same lobbying power as oil companies... Can you imagine how much EV infrastructure we could have already?
they still are on SA. say the words Hydrogen is awful and Davewmart may report you and drop bricks on you
Well maybe that explains Elon's tweets from last night. People on his back about it but the guy knows which side his bread is buttered.
brucet999
Active Member
Obvious dishonest claims in slide 9. Claim 1 minute gasoline fillip for 620 miles. Who can pump 15 gallons in one minute? Or does a Golf TDI get 60 mpg?
Gas pumps peak at 10 gallons a minute in the US. Diesel pumps can touch 60 gallons a minute. Taking on 30 gallons in 30 seconds is beautiful.
green1
Active Member
You show me a CAR (not a big-rig) that can accept 60 gallons a minute. As a former diesel driver I can tell you that those diesel pumps that can do 60 GPM are almost impossible to use on a light passenger vehicle, the nozzle barely fits in the vehicle and if you pull more than a quarter of the way on the trigger it just cuts off from the back-pressure.
In fact, because of the way diesel foams as you fill, diesel cars take significantly longer to fill than gasoline ones.
My work pickups are diesel as was our motorhome. I've used them many times all across the USA.
green1
Active Member
I can GUARANTEE you've never put 30 gallons in in 30 seconds. If you filled at that rate until it cut off, you took on far far less than your tank capacity, and if you filled at a rate your vehicle could accept, you didn't take it on at that rate. (perhaps in the motorhome if it's a true motorcoach based on a bus or big-rig platform)
green1
Active Member
I'm not a hardcore evironmentalist, and if people want to make stupid decisions with their own money, that's not really my business.
My main concerns are:
- Government, I can't stand how much of our tax money goes to making such a stupid decision. That money could do so much real good if used for EV infrastructure instead
- Safety, I don't want any of those vehicles anywhere within a block of me, and I don't want a refuelling station in any populated area. High pressure hydrogen tanks are bombs. they WILL explode, the only question is how often.
Toyota might be right "hydrogen is the future." Not because it is better that batteries, but because it is a better battery.
While i agree that the hydrogen fuel cell is just a delay tactic. Hydrogen and batteries are not mutually exclusive. A hydrogen fuel cell car needs some kind of a battery for peak power requirements.
But the big new is a hydrogen METAL room temperature superconducting battery. For the first time scientists have made metallic hydrogen in their lab.
'Holy grail' hailed as gas turned to metal
If metallic hydrogen is a room temperature superconductor (and can be mass produced cheaply), the perfect battery might be a tiny simple metallic hydrogen, room temperature superconductor, toroidal ring. In ten years the perfect battery might look more like Magnetic-core memory From the 1970's.
Magnetic-core memory - Wikipedia
While i agree that the hydrogen fuel cell is just a delay tactic. Hydrogen and batteries are not mutually exclusive. A hydrogen fuel cell car needs some kind of a battery for peak power requirements.
But the big new is a hydrogen METAL room temperature superconducting battery. For the first time scientists have made metallic hydrogen in their lab.
'Holy grail' hailed as gas turned to metal
If metallic hydrogen is a room temperature superconductor (and can be mass produced cheaply), the perfect battery might be a tiny simple metallic hydrogen, room temperature superconductor, toroidal ring. In ten years the perfect battery might look more like Magnetic-core memory From the 1970's.
Magnetic-core memory - Wikipedia
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
green1
Active Member
Except that as is continually pointed out, Hydrogen is a WORSE battery in every measurable way. It's hard to extract, it's extremely dangerous to store, it's extremely energy intensive. It's just not a good plan.
3Victoria
Active Member
Boy, that is some huge corner .... first, they haven't verified if they actually got solid H, and second they are just speculating on whether (a) solid H will survive room temperature and (b) whether it is a super conductor.
Still, a room temperature superconductor would make life much better.
green1
Active Member
You know what all H2 announcements, and all room temperature superconductor announcements have in common? They're always "just about there", but never quite at the point of being practical.
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