First of all, that's 0.25% not 0.0025%.
Secondly, that's assuming that everyone not on the forum is happy, which is false.
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Secondly, that's assuming that everyone not on the forum is happy, which is false.
Jashev
Member
Sorry, the % sign was a typo. According to CR, 91% of Tesla owners are happy and will "definitely" buy another Tesla. If you are one of the 9%, that's unfortunate. Hopefully the next vehicle you purchase will make you happier.
I like my Tesla, I don't like erroneous information posted as facts.
Sir Guacamolaf
The good kind of fat
Dude who care about surveys. You produce a survey that says it's scorching hot on Mt. Everest, while I'm sitting there freezing my ass, really who cares about that survey. I'd rather believe my personal experience at least as far as it concerns me and my situation.
Also, just like Max - I like my car. I just feel that the company is having some growing pains that I'd like to see them pull out of.
- Repair situation .. looks like they are getting on top of this finally, so that is good.
- Service center situation - still not on top of this.
- Superchargers - need more, but the progress is encouraging.
- Fraudulent and misleading claims on AP and timelines + Elon stretchable time - this they really need to stop doing.
Also, just like Max - I like my car. I just feel that the company is having some growing pains that I'd like to see them pull out of.
- Repair situation .. looks like they are getting on top of this finally, so that is good.
- Service center situation - still not on top of this.
- Superchargers - need more, but the progress is encouraging.
- Fraudulent and misleading claims on AP and timelines + Elon stretchable time - this they really need to stop doing.
Sorry to beat a dead horse ever further, but CR never stated that they're happy. They just said if they'd buy the car again, and 91% said definitely. Those are two different questions.
Hypothetical: someone is OK with their Tesla, but knows there's no competition at the moment. Would he buy it again? Yes. Is he happy? No.
Also, if you really want to split hairs, it was a car satisfaction rating. And semantically satisfaction and happiness are not the same thing.
Math and statistics can be a funny thing. There's only 1 right answer, but you can often carefully chose your wording and then manipulate the results to look like something else
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Jashev
Member
Sorry to beat a dead horse ever further, but CR never stated that they're happy. They just said if they'd buy the car again, and 91% said definitely. Those are two different questions.
Hypothetical: someone is OK with their Tesla, but knows there's no competition at the moment. Would he buy it again? Yes. Is he happy? No.
Also, if you really want to split hairs, it was a car satisfaction rating. And semantically satisfaction and happiness are not the same thing.
Math and statistics can be a funny thing. There's only 1 right answer, but you can often carefully chose your wording and then manipulate the results to look like something else
I disagree with your hypothetical. The ranking for all Tesla models was 91% would definitely buy again. Model S owners were at 94%. People will not buy the same car again if they are not happy with either their vehicle or their experiences. I disagree with your assumption that there is no competition. I came out of a Mercedes and if I wasn't happy with the Tesla, my next car would be a Benz. It's not logical to assume that people are owning Tesla's because they have no choice and are unhappy.
CR's methodology is: "Our brand rankings represent owner sentiment across each brand’s product line. (Model satisfaction is determined by the percentage of owners who responded “definitely yes” to the question of whether they would buy the same vehicle if they had it to do all over again.) To determine brand love—or disdain—we took a straight average of the satisfaction score for each brand’s models."
If you took the survey (which I did) you would also realize that there were other choices (like yes, probably, undecided, probably not, etc.). Choosing definitely yes was not the choice that unhappy people would make. You would expect more probably or undecided from those folks.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't lots of room for improvement, but having participated in this and similar forums for other brands for many years, many of the people on here are not your typical "I drive to get where I'm going" people. They tend to be enthusiasts who will be more demanding. The cars are not being sold to just early adopters anymore and the folks who view their car as "just transportation" are the vast majority who are responding to the CR survey.
And finally, the same criteria was being used across all automakers and for Tesla to perform that well in that arena is impressive.
False. Say you visit a remote town with only one general store. You need to stop there before camping to pick up supplies. The store is selling close-to-expiration food items and overcharges. There are no other nearby options.
Are you happy with the store? NO.
Would you shop there again. YES.
Would you shop at store #2 instead when it opens in a year? Yes.
Are you happy with the store? NO.
Would you shop there again. YES.
Would you shop at store #2 instead when it opens in a year? Yes.
That's an assumption you're making.
It's not a stretch in most instances. But it's not a guarantee either. Everything else you say after here is based on this assumption. But I'll play along.
Give me one other car brand in 2017 that can do 240+ miles on a single charge and has lond distance travel capabilities (with short charge times) and under 5.3 second speed 0-60 acceleration? Just one.
Not everyone who drives a Tesla came from a luxury car. Some people came from hybrids. Some people came from short range EVs.
That's an assumption. You don't know how the other people would vote under similar circumstances. My above hypothetical addresses this assumption.
If I took the test Today, I'd say definitely yes I'd buy another Tesla. I'm in line for a Model 3. Based on what Ive seen so far there wont be any real competition next year. So 100% I'd buy another Tesla, or even the same one (though we don't need 2 Model S's).
But ask me that question in 2020, and my answer will be different. I will cross shop brands when there is real competition for a long distance, quick accelerating, EV with a charging network. Today? There's no competition, so if I want to prioritize what's important to me, Tesla is the only brand that will meet my goals.
I'm not arguing that Tesla outperformed the "competition" (though they're comparing a performance EV to luxury ICEs) on the survey, I'm arguing based on your flawed comments that 91% are happy with their cars. That's my point. You can't get to that conclusion off of the data you have. I have no issue in the way CR did the survey, I'm sure they crossed their I's and dotted their T's, my issue is you using the survey, reading between the lines, and coming back and making factual statements based on assumptions which are wrong.
Out of all Tesla owners, we don't know how many people are happy with their cars. Is it a lot? I'm sure it is. Is it exactly 91% I'd bet my car it's not.
Jashev
Member
You are not in a remote town. You have hundreds of car models to choose from and numerous manufacturers. Your analogy makes no sense.
Jashev
Member
And therein lies the rub. If those are the things that make you happy, then you buy the Tesla. If you are unhappy with your experience, then you change your criteria. If not, then I assume you go into these transactions with your eyes open and make your choices. Right now, that choice is be happy with the car and put up with the other stuff, or move on.
I also owned two Chevy Volts and would have no problem going back to those cars or even a Bolt if I was unhappy.
That's not an assumption. Read CR's statement again. You missed the important part. "If you had to do it all over again". People are being asked to look back on their decision and given everything they know today would they have made the same decision. When folks are saying definitely yes, they are reaffirming their original decision. Sorry, but normal people who are unhappy with their cars or their experiences don't make that statement.
As I pointed out above, you are not being asked if you would buy another Tesla. You are being asked if you would make the same decision again.
In my analogy, you are in the remote town, not me. You're stuck with just one store to pick from. You may not be happy about the store but it's the only option.
If you want to drive an EV in 2017, and have performance and range similar to a typical ICE car plus a charging network, you have no choice other than Tesla. That will change in about 2 years. Tesla is an island and their sales reflect that. Boats are closing in on that island though. I know you love my analogies so I threw an extra one in there for ya.
Jashev
Member
The real analogy would be you are in a town with 15 different stores. Each one carries different brands of the supplies you need to go camping. One store has your favorite brands and that's what you buy.
The survey asks whether you would make that decision again knowing what you know today? Yes is the answer. Would you say yes if you weren't buying your favorite brand that makes you happy? Don't think so.
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Why is it so difficult to believe that people make buying choices all the time without being happy with the company or maybe even the product
Happens all the time !
eg. Airlines, Hotels, Car Rentals, Cable TV, Cellular Phone Service...
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Jashev
Member
Because the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Agreed that people make those buying choices BUT when they are asked about those choices people don't hesitate to complain about them. I don't fly an airline again if I have an unhappy experience and when I answer a survey about it, you can be sure I will blast them. The same goes for all your examples. So when a survey is done asking Tesla owners if they could do it all over again knowing what they know today and 91% (94% of S owners) say definitely yes, that makes a pretty strong statement.
Why are you assuming that Tesla's competition is only EV ? Tesla being an EV was the least important factor in my criteria for buying Tesla. There is a thread here where people discussed what cross shopping looked like when they purchased Tesla. And most people cross shopped Tesla with cars in that price range. Most Tesla owners will bolt to a different luxury brand if they were unhappy.
We're disagreeing because we're approaching this CR survey w/ different assumptions.
The bottom line is... I like the car, I don't like the company.
But, I might buy the car again, if forced to choose.
But that doesn't mean I still don't dislike the company...
Perhaps that's incomprehensible to you...
Ah, I see, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Because you clearly get the point. I'm going to move on that way ---->
Cable TV (well Cable Internet, I don't have Cable TV) is the perfect analogy.
They have a monopoly (in a way). Sure I can not have internet, or have slow internet, but that's not really an option.
Am I happy with my provider? Hell no. Would I pay them next months payment (i.e. do it all over again)? Hell yeah. I don't want to be stranded to tethering off my mobile phone or some other slow form of internet.
You took my comment out of context, Tesla does have competition from lots of other car maker out there.
But there is no other car manufacturer that can offer what Tesla can, today.
So in that sense, if the things that Tesla offers are important (range, acceleration, EV, etc.) -- there is no competition. It's changing though, 2-3 years there will be lots of competition, and I bet the survey will have less than 91% "definitely yes" answers in 2020, unless Tesla steps up the game.
That was my point, but you're right, I could have phrased it better.
Jashev
Member
It's understandable. However, you are not being asked about a future purchase. You are being asked whether you would make the same decision that you made to buy the car, knowing what you know today. When you answer that question you factor in all those issues which you have with the company as everyone would. If amongst all the possible answers you choose "definitely yes" (not maybe, or possibly) that would be a pretty strong indicator that people are happy with their decision.
It doesn't invalidate the fact that there are issues that Tesla needs to work on, but in comparing Tesla's performance to other car manufacturer's, that's a pretty outstanding result.
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