I Enjoy the Car, I Really Dislike Tesla the Car Company

[SocalMS]

I'm not, but I took this survey and while I may not remember word for word it went something like this:

1. Definitely Yes
2. Probably Yes
3. Maybe
4. Probably Not
5. Definitely Not

I have taken these every year from CR for 30 years. I'm a life CR member ;-)

If we were talking C&D or some other for profit organization, I would be suspicious. But CR is as straight as they come and they have no axe to grind.

.


The point you're trying to make w/ the Consumer Reports Survey:

* Tesla is great.
* Tesla customers love Tesla

I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH THIS

The point I'm trying to make:
* Based on my ownership experience with Tesla...
* I like the car
* I don't like the company

These realities can both coexist at the same time....

.

 

[Jashev]

.


The point you're trying to make w/ the Consumer Reports Survey:

* Tesla is great.
* Tesla customers love Tesla

I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH THIS

The point I'm trying to make:
* Based on my ownership experience with Tesla...
* I like the car
* I don't like the company

These realities can both coexist at the same time....

.

I am not trying to change your reality and you are not correct about the point I am trying to make. The point I am making, is that CR, a well respected, objective consumer advocacy group, did a survey (which has been done annually since the 1960's and is considered the gold standard for rating car companies) and found Tesla to be the number one car manufacturer amongst respondents in an owner satisfaction survey. There is no other point. I'm not saying anything about whether Tesla is great. It's a simple statement of fact.

You can argue all you want about whether you agree with the findings, but that doesn't change them. And yes, 9% of the respondents apparently agree with you.

 

[Jashev]

Not exactly. Margin of error - Wikipedia

Cute Max. But only true if you are trying to imply that the survey results can be extrapolated across the total population. Within the survey population, it is exact ;-)

 

[Max*]

I am not trying to change your reality and you are not correct about the point I am trying to make. The point I am making, is that CR, a well respected, objective consumer advocacy group, did a survey (which has been done annually since the 1960's and is considered the gold standard for rating car companies) and found Tesla to be the number one car manufacturer amongst respondents in an owner satisfaction survey. There is no other point. I'm not saying anything about whether Tesla is great. It's a simple statement of fact.

You can argue all you want about whether you agree with the findings, but that doesn't change them. And yes, 9% of the respondents apparently agree with you.

<scans whole message, checks it twice, no mention of assumed happiness>

Hey, we're in agreement now!

 

[Jashev]

<scans whole message, checks it twice, no mention of assumed happiness>

Hey, we're in agreement now!

It's been a long road.... ;-)

 

[ohmman]

The point I am making, is that CR, a well respected, objective consumer advocacy group, did a survey (which has been done annually since the 1960's and is considered the gold standard for rating car companies) and found Tesla to be the number one car manufacturer amongst respondents in an owner satisfaction survey.

I don't disagree with the sentence as stated. What I disagree with is glossing over the fact that this particular survey, with regards to Tesla, suffers from selection bias. Tesla continues to exist in a comfortable space where there is at least some degree of self-selection within the consumer base. Your posts seem to ignore this effect, and I think that others have been trying to point it out to you with little success.

There are many of us who are buying Tesla vehicles because they're high performing electric cars. Maybe it's concern about carbon, or desire for the fastest production car, or a love of technology, or just an anti-establishment bent (very popular now). But the multiple niches that Tesla currently fills make for a very specific type of customer. One who, like me, will buy a Model X, hate the falcon wing doors, have the car in service for months, but still can't find another car company that fills my need. So I'll definitely buy another Tesla again. Unless someone else does better, and even then I'll give Tesla the benefit of the doubt because they started this whole thing and ran with it against the odds. But that's because I'm in that self-selecting population.

Here's another way to think about it. When I was in Munich last year for Oktoberfest, I was craving green leafy vegetables. Those aren't very common in the tents. After two days of plates of meat and potatoes, a rare menu item of a very lame salad was about the best thing I'd ever eaten. Would I buy it again in that circumstance? Definitely Yes. If I had a bunch of salads available to me, would I choose it? I'd have to see what the other salads had to offer. I think that's what people are saying here.

 

[EinSV]

Tesla has won the Consumer Reports customer satisfaction survey for four years running, and by a large margin, but the folks arguing against it seem to be arguing "customer satisfaction" does not mean "customer satisfaction" or maybe that satisfaction has to do with the car but not the overall ownership experience. I haven't seen any data to support these statements.

Other studies of car owners' satisfaction have also found Tesla is on top. Based on its owner surveys, Strategic Vision found the Model S to be at the top of their Consumer Love Index -- the most "loved" among all vehicles. Strategic Vision

According to Strategic Vision:

“Love” is the holy grail of the customer experience. Our research shows that true advocacy and brand loyalty begins not when buyers are simply “satisfied,” but when they truly love their experience!
​

The Consumer Love Index measures not just love of the car, but the overall ownership experience, including experience with the "dealer," for example:

Total Quality Impact

The customer’s assessment of the complete ownership experience.

*******

Advocacy

Measurement of customer advocacy for the brand and the dealership where they purchased their vehicle.

Strategic Vision​

OP of course has the right to his opinion based on his own experience, but people who actually have tried to study these things systematically have found that Tesla owners on the whole are the most satisfied and "love" their full ownership experience more than any others in the industry.

 

[AVRnj]

Its hard to separate the car from the company, since the company created the car, and I absolutely love the car. That said, I completely understand what the OP is saying. I have had several bad experiences with Tesla that were completely avoidable. I find the sales people I worked with to be dishonest and misleading at best, and incompetent too.

 

[MS16]

Its hard to separate the car from the company, since the company created the car, and I absolutely love the car. That said, I completely understand what the OP is saying. I have had several bad experiences with Tesla that were completely avoidable. I find the sales people I worked with to be dishonest and misleading at best, and incompetent too.

Incompetent is a word I use a lot to describe my Tesla experiences, from sales to delivery to service. For me, I would lay blame on management more than the inexperienced front line people.

For example, my appointment wait times have been between 2 and 5 weeks. Completely inexcusable and something management could fix if they really wanted to.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't disagree with the sentence as stated. What I disagree with is glossing over the fact that this particular survey, with regards to Tesla, suffers from selection bias. Tesla continues to exist in a comfortable space where there is at least some degree of self-selection within the consumer base. Your posts seem to ignore this effect, and I think that others have been trying to point it out to you with little success.

There are many of us who are buying Tesla vehicles because they're high performing electric cars. Maybe it's concern about carbon, or desire for the fastest production car, or a love of technology, or just an anti-establishment bent (very popular now). But the multiple niches that Tesla currently fills make for a very specific type of customer. One who, like me, will buy a Model X, hate the falcon wing doors, have the car in service for months, but still can't find another car company that fills my need. So I'll definitely buy another Tesla again. Unless someone else does better, and even then I'll give Tesla the benefit of the doubt because they started this whole thing and ran with it against the odds. But that's because I'm in that self-selecting population.

Here's another way to think about it. When I was in Munich last year for Oktoberfest, I was craving green leafy vegetables. Those aren't very common in the tents. After two days of plates of meat and potatoes, a rare menu item of a very lame salad was about the best thing I'd ever eaten. Would I buy it again in that circumstance? Definitely Yes. If I had a bunch of salads available to me, would I choose it? I'd have to see what the other salads had to offer. I think that's what people are saying here.

Interesting point, but then on the other hand there is some self selection also for other brands. Tesla is not the only one with brand fans. Some of the older nameplates have their own loyal fans (buying the same brand for decades) that can possibly skew results.

 

[SocalMS]

Tesla has won the Consumer Reports customer satisfaction survey for four years running, and by a large margin, but the folks arguing against it seem to be arguing "customer satisfaction" does not mean "customer satisfaction" or maybe that satisfaction has to do with the car but not the overall ownership experience. I haven't seen any data to support these statements.

Other studies of car owners' satisfaction have also found Tesla is on top. Based on its owner surveys, Strategic Vision found the Model S to be at the top of their Consumer Love Index -- the most "loved" among all vehicles. Strategic Vision

According to Strategic Vision:

“Love” is the holy grail of the customer experience. Our research shows that true advocacy and brand loyalty begins not when buyers are simply “satisfied,” but when they truly love their experience!
​

The Consumer Love Index measures not just love of the car, but the overall ownership experience, including experience with the "dealer," for example:

Total Quality Impact

The customer’s assessment of the complete ownership experience.

*******

Advocacy

Measurement of customer advocacy for the brand and the dealership where they purchased their vehicle.

Strategic Vision​

OP of course has the right to his opinion based on his own experience, but people who actually have tried to study these things systematically have found that Tesla owners on the whole are the most satisfied and "love" their full ownership experience more than any others in the industry.

.

" but the folks arguing against it seem to be arguing "customer satisfaction" does not mean "customer satisfaction" or maybe that satisfaction has to do with the car but not the overall ownership experience. I haven't seen any data to support these statements. "

* I'm not arguing Against or For any Consumer Reports Survey/report... It frankly doesn't apply to me. I'm just sharing my ownership experience.
* If you're in charge of Tesla... a customer contacts you and expresses dissatisfaction with their ownership experience... are you going to reply back with, " I haven't seen any data to support your statements..." ? ... and completely invalidate their concerns?


.

 

[SocalMS]

Its hard to separate the car from the company, since the company created the car, and I absolutely love the car. That said, I completely understand what the OP is saying. I have had several bad experiences with Tesla that were completely avoidable. I find the sales people I worked with to be dishonest and misleading at best, and incompetent too.

Its hard to separate the car from the company
* This is VERY EASY TO DO.
* Read my opening post.

I'm sure members can provide many examples of "liked products" vs "disliked companies".... THERE ARE SO MANY...

 

[SocalMS]

Interesting point, but then on the other hand there is some self selection also for other brands. Tesla is not the only one with brand fans. Some of the older nameplates have their own loyal fans (buying the same brand for decades) that can possibly skew results.

.


You'll get the same "positively" skewed reports from Porsche owners...


.

 

[bonnie]

.

" but the folks arguing against it seem to be arguing "customer satisfaction" does not mean "customer satisfaction" or maybe that satisfaction has to do with the car but not the overall ownership experience. I haven't seen any data to support these statements. "

* I'm not arguing Against or For any Consumer Reports Survey/report... It frankly doesn't apply to me. I'm just sharing my ownership experience.
* If you're in charge of Tesla... a customer contacts you and expresses dissatisfaction with their ownership experience... are you going to reply back with, " I haven't seen any data to support your statements..." ? ... and completely invalidate their concerns?


.

I don't see that as completely invalidating your concerns - but rather saying that the issue under discussion is not widespread. You may have extrapolated (as you've done a few times in this thread ) a personal ownership experience into 'if you're buying a Tesla this is what you should expect' or 'it's happening everywhere and people are up in arms' or 'completely invalidating' or whatever. I'd reply to one of those statements with 'I haven't seen data to support that', but still want to deal with your personal experience.

In no way do I believe that just because something isn't widespread, it isn't important and shouldn't be addressed. Is that what was said to you? Or just implied that the issues might not be as widespread as you might have stated?

 

[EinSV]

.

" but the folks arguing against it seem to be arguing "customer satisfaction" does not mean "customer satisfaction" or maybe that satisfaction has to do with the car but not the overall ownership experience. I haven't seen any data to support these statements. "

* I'm not arguing Against or For any Consumer Reports Survey/report... It frankly doesn't apply to me. I'm just sharing my ownership experience.
* If you're in charge of Tesla... a customer contacts you and expresses dissatisfaction with their ownership experience... are you going to reply back with, " I haven't seen any data to support your statements..." ? ... and completely invalidate their concerns?


.

As I said, you are welcome to your opinion and I think Tesla should strive to make every customer happy.

Where I disagree is that you are not just reporting 'your' issues, but that from your n=1 experience you draw a series of conclusions about the company as a whole and the experience of other customers.

Other posters have pointed out that they have had a different experience than you. I believe it is also fair to conclude that your "dislike" of the company is not shared by the vast majority of Tesla consumers, given its consistent rank as the brand highest in consumer satisfaction according to Consumer Reports, and Model S's ranking as "most loved."

But it would be great if Tesla were able to achieve 99-100% on the Consumer Reports' consumer satisfaction survey, so I hope they keep improving customer service.

Edit: what @bonnie said.

<snip>

But in comparison....I DON'T like Tesla the car company.

Their service, behind the smiles and politeness, is poorly executed.

1. You'll be lucky to get a perfectly delivered car...
2. If you have issues on your car.. you'll likely not have your car for weeks..
3. You may or may not even get a Tesla loaner vehicle
4. You may or may not even get a clean loaner vehicle.
5. You may get a Tesla that's all beat up and several years old.
6. Once you get your car back, likely, there will be other problems w/ the car, that wasn't there when you first left it.
7. Good luck getting a service appointment, it's weeks away, if they even bother to call you back, or schedule you!
8. More or less likely, you have to push and DEMAND a service appointment.

I'm still on #8.. unable to get a service appointment!

The car is fine.. but the company is really something (@#$#@) ...

1. The sales guys have no power
2. The service personnel have no power
3. Good luck working w/ the service manager.. if you can even reach him, or if he chooses to return your emails and/or phone calls
4. Good luck contacting Tesla corporate, all they do is route your messages to a local center, and now you're back at #2
5. Good luck calling Tesla corporate, all they do is contact the local service center, and you're back at #2 again...


I seriously think I should've bought a different "car company"...



.
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[SocalMS]

I don't see that as completely invalidating your concerns - but rather saying that the issue under discussion is not widespread. You may have extrapolated (as you've done a few times in this thread ) a personal ownership experience into 'if you're buying a Tesla this is what you should expect' or 'it's happening everywhere and people are up in arms' or 'completely invalidating' or whatever. I'd reply to one of those statements with 'I haven't seen data to support that', but still want to deal with your personal experience.

In no way do I believe that just because something isn't widespread, it isn't important and shouldn't be addressed. Is that what was said to you? Or just implied that the issues might not be as widespread as you might have stated?

.


Based on my many conversations with the service manager and service personnel, I can say that "my experience" appears to be quite common (at least in So Cal).

They seem to be just as frustrated and perplexed...

But they're used it, because they deal with this everyday. Unemotional, detatched (almost uncaring) to the current reality of Tesla.

So what would that lead me to believe..?

THAT THIS IS SYSTEMIC

.

 

[AVRnj]

Its hard to separate the car from the company
* This is VERY EASY TO DO.
* Read my opening post.

I'm sure members can provide many examples of "liked products" vs "disliked companies".... THERE ARE SO MANY...

I know what you are saying, and I understand your point. I break out the company into more than the customer facing portion however. My point is I love the product, but strongly dislike the consumer facing part of the company.

 

[thefortunes]

I don't see that as completely invalidating your concerns - but rather saying that the issue under discussion is not widespread. You may have extrapolated (as you've done a few times in this thread ) a personal ownership experience into 'if you're buying a Tesla this is what you should expect' or 'it's happening everywhere and people are up in arms' or 'completely invalidating' or whatever. I'd reply to one of those statements with 'I haven't seen data to support that', but still want to deal with your personal experience.

In no way do I believe that just because something isn't widespread, it isn't important and shouldn't be addressed. Is that what was said to you? Or just implied that the issues might not be as widespread as you might have stated?

.


Based on my many conversations with the service manager and service personnel, I can say that "my experience" appears to be quite common (at least in So Cal).

They seem to be just as frustrated and perplexed...

But they're used it, because they deal with this everyday. Unemotional, detatched (almost uncaring) to the current reality of Tesla.

So what would that lead me to believe..?

THAT THIS IS SYSTEMIC

.

Give it up Bonnie.

SocalMS's vast experience with Tesla (he might actually have 1000 miles on his car by now) certainly qualifies him to make generalizations such as "THIS IS SYSTEMIC."

 

[SocalMS]

I know what you are saying, and I understand your point. I break out the company into more than the customer facing portion however. My point is I love the product, but strongly dislike the consumer facing part of the company.

I would agree with you..

The consumer facing part of Tesla is all I know...
(besides the product)

I can't comment on their "other" aspects...

 

[tphillips444]

I have had my model s since July of 2016 and I have to agree with the OP, I think the best way I can describe my ownership is 'the best car I have ever owned, and also the worst'. Best being the performance and tech as well as not having to deal with gas and the usual car purchase/dealership process. Worst being limited range, service centers. I have had an air condition problem that no one at the service centers has been able to diagnose and fix even though they say they do but problem continues and the more I talk to them the less I feel that they are able to communicate that they are able to fix these cars. The head service person at the last call I made involved him plugging in a laptop for 20 minutes to the car and updating the firmware and then walking me out of the service room 'for my own safety' even thought they aren't working on cars in the service room just plugging in laptops. The only real info I have found on the issue that I have had has come through boards such as teslamotorsclub which several people at the service center said not to get info from!

I do feel that they are the 'spear' for the EV revolution which is here to stay for sure but hopefully either they can sort out some of their issues or another company will come along to make an alternative....just saying.