I need to vent - this car is going from bad to worse

[Max*]

Really? Did you buy a Tesla or something else? Because my Tesla, does exactly that. Once I get on the highway, I switch on AP, and it drives all the way till I get to my exit. Check the badge on the rear to see if you have a 'T'. I honestly don't understand what you mean it is not doing "on ramp to off ramp"

As long as the lanes are clearly marked or there's a car in front of you AND there's no forks in the road AND you keep your hands on the wheel AND there's no construction zones with wonky lanes AND the curve on the road isn't too much AND there's no large crests and turns at the same time AND etc. etc. etc.

If you were new to Tesla and listened to the promised hype from Elon, he was selling a car with L2 capabilities like an L3 car. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Look, I agree with you, AP1 is pretty damn awesome. I've logged tens of thousands of miles on it. BUT @Electricfan has a point. Tesla oversold the capabilities of the car.

 

[eye.surgeon]

After using it for 3 years, if I approach it as a fantastic driver's aid, I love it. If I approach it as a self-driving car, it scares me. When you say "the car did this" or "the car did that", you are approaching it as a self driving car. it is not. The car never does anything you don't let it do.

 

[Max*]

AP1 has lots more potential. Recognising red lights is but one. I would say, based on the ex CEO of Mobileye (Amnon Shashua) statements, that we do not have about 25% of the potential of the system. Remember? Elon said it would not just summon out of the garage but come to your door. While that, as usual with Elon, was probably hyperbole, it was based on his inside knowledge of the chips potential.

By the way, autopilot updates when they were being released by Mobileye, were stable, and progressive, exactly what you would expect from a mature company. Now, in house, obviously not so much!!!

Elon also promised that AP1 would take exit ramps that connect to the next highway (forgot the name for it). I'm sure that was a Mobileye thing too. It's not a big deal, but it's another capability that could have been there.

 

[Electroman]

Elon also promised that AP1 would take exit ramps that connect to the next highway

To me that is a party trick that I don't care. I can always take the ramp to the next highway and turn on AP again. If it takes of 90% of highway driving, not having the remaining 10% is not the end of the world as Electricfan tries to portray.

As long as the lanes are clearly marked or there's a car in front of you AND there's no forks in the road AND you keep your hands on the wheel AND there's no construction zones with wonky lanes AND the curve on the road isn't too much AND there's no large crests and turns at the same time AND etc. etc. etc.

All of these situations you listed are edge cases that would constitute less than what 5% or 10% of highway use case? And if you are at (or even slightly above) speed limit, then many of those edge cases it does really well. It is a question of glass 1/8th empty or 7/8ths full.

 

[Sunshine State]

Really? Did you buy a Tesla or something else? Because my Tesla, does exactly that. Once I get on the highway, I switch on AP, and it drives all the way till I get to my exit. Check the badge on the rear to see if you have a 'T'. I honestly don't understand what you mean it is not doing "on ramp to off ramp"

Your must be joking that you don’t understand or haven’t you been following Tesla? That silly interpretation doesn’t have any thing to do with what they promised. They promised integration with the GPS. They even promised opening the door on its own, driving out of your garage, closing the door and then picking you up at the front door. They even went as far to say “as long as it’s on private property”. I don’t need it to pick me up but there was much more that AP1 was capable of, or so they said until venturing into the AP2 folly.

 

[Sunshine State]

To me that is a party trick that I don't care. I can always take the ramp to the next highway and turn on AP again. If it takes of 90% of highway driving, not having the remaining 10% is not the end of the world as Electricfan tries to portray.



All of these situations you listed are edge cases that would constitute less than what 5% or 10% of highway use case? And if you are at (or even slightly above) speed limit, then many of those edge cases it does really well. It is a question of glass 1/8th empty or 7/8ths full.

I don’t understand the criticism of the OP expecting the car to be what Tesla promised. What Tesla promised might be of importance to them while not important to you. You might not care if your car didn’t have a hood as long as it had 90 percent of rest of the body panels but most people expect a certain level of delivery of expected quality in return for the financial compensation given to the manufacturer.

 

[Max*]

All of these situations you listed are edge cases that would constitute less than what 5% or 10% of highway use case? And if you are at (or even slightly above) speed limit, then many of those edge cases it does really well. It is a question of glass 1/8th empty or 7/8ths full.

All of them except the hands on the wheel. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

AP1 is awesome, but that doesn't mean that Tesla didn't oversell and underdeliver. Because they did.

 

[kort677]

After using it for 3 years, if I approach it as a fantastic driver's aid, I love it. If I approach it as a self-driving car, it scares me. When you say "the car did this" or "the car did that", you are approaching it as a self driving car. it is not. The car never does anything you don't let it do.

you get what so many others are grappling to grasp

 

[Electroman]

After using it for 3 years, if I approach it as a fantastic driver's aid, I love it. If I approach it as a self-driving car, it scares me. When you say "the car did this" or "the car did that", you are approaching it as a self driving car. it is not. The car never does anything you don't let it do.

Very well said. Although to me it falls under 'common sense' , it need to be told like you did eloquently.

And Tesla never sold AP1 or even EAP as a self-driving.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

AP1 was supposed to get navigation-following automatic exit taking in 8.1 in December, 2016.

EAP was supposed to be here in December, 2016. Four cameras, auto lane changes and all.

AP2 FSD was supposed to get differentiating features in April-July, 2017.

Hasn't happened yet.

That's just the clear, big ones. And of course @Sunshine State is right, there is tons of inventive, forward-looking narrative Tesla offered and mostly just forgot about. Including following traffic lights in AP1...

 

[BestRadar]

Very well said. Although to me it falls under 'common sense' , it need to be told like you did eloquently.

And Tesla never sold AP1 or even EAP as a self-driving.

No, But they did sell FSD as Full Self Driving only waiting for approval which we all now know is BS because even if they received regulatory approval no way this car could self drive itself. Its waiting on a lot more than approval and that is not what they sold to many of us.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

No, But they did sell FSD as Full Self Driving only waiting for approval which we all now know is BS because even if they received regulatory approval no way this car could self drive itself. Its waiting on a lot more than approval and that is not what they sold many of us.

...they also sold EAP as pending regulatory approval, which totally would get it, were it done.

 

[Ken7]

All of them except the hands on the wheel. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

AP1 is awesome, but that doesn't mean that Tesla didn't oversell and underdeliver. Because they did.

Most manufacturers over promise and under deliver. At some point common sense has to prevail, especially when the company has a history of doing that. An educated consumer needs to take some responsibility.

I think the previous comment of distinguishing between a ‘driver’s aid’ and ‘self-driving’ was spot on.

 

[Max*]

Most manufacturers over promise and under deliver. At some point common sense has to prevail, especially when the company has a history of doing that. An educated consumer needs to take some responsibility.

I think the previous comment of distinguishing between a ‘driver’s aid’ and ‘self-driving’ was spot on.

So if most people jump off a bridge, the consensus is that it's OK?

 

[Sunshine State]

Most manufacturers over promise and under deliver. At some point common sense has to prevail, especially when the company has a history of doing that. An educated consumer needs to take some responsibility.

I think the previous comment of distinguishing between a ‘driver’s aid’ and ‘self-driving’ was spot on.

It is common knowledge that Tesla shouldn’t be believed in the exaggerated claims they make. There are no large companies that I can think off the top of my head that rise to the levels of Tesla’s exaggerated claims. It is just amazing that they continue to get away with them. It reminds me of how VP “Crazy Uncle Joe" wacky comments and claims were always ignored, well maybe not quite that bad.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Because Civics are cars, and drivers expect to be able to park over curbs if they want to. To make the "don't park over curbs" restriction more stark - imagine if Tesla had a bug where the AC switched to heat when temp went over 105F (actually not hard to imagine, is it?) - is the proper reaction "don't drive when it gets hot"?

There is a minimum feature set I expect from any car. Not lowering itself onto curbs is something I didn't think I needed to explicitly state

Do what you want, but you're inviting trouble by parking over curbs. You are focusing on the car lowering itself, but you could have just as easily scraped going in because you have no way of knowing if you will clear the curb in the first place. Almost everyone I know doesn't park over curbs for this reason, regardless of what car they drive.

... An educated consumer needs to take some responsibility...

I just found the oxymoron in your argument. You're welcome.

 

[Darren Donovan]

Most manufacturers over promise and under deliver. At some point common sense has to prevail, especially when the company has a history of doing that. An educated consumer needs to take some responsibility.

I think the previous comment of distinguishing between a ‘driver’s aid’ and ‘self-driving’ was spot on.

WTH? So a manufacturer can claim whatever they want in order to sell the car, and it's on the buyer to beware? How can a regular Joe buyer understand the intricacies of the various technologies employed in this high tech machine? He was told the car would be able to do certain things, bought the car, only to find out that it doesn't. Now it's on him??

 

[Ken7]

So if most people jump off a bridge, the consensus is that it's OK?

There is absolutely no analogy in your statement to mine. Zero.

 

[Ken7]

It is common knowledge that Tesla shouldn’t be believed in the exaggerated claims they make. There are no large companies that I can think off the top of my head that rise to the levels of Tesla’s exaggerated claims. It is just amazing that they continue to get away with them. It reminds me of how VP “Crazy Uncle Joe" wacky comments and claims were always ignored, well maybe not quite that bad.

Precisely why I said that at some point common sense must prevail. Taking promises at face value is done so at your own risk.

 

[Ken7]

WTH? So a manufacturer can claim whatever they want in order to sell the car, and it's on the buyer to beware? How can a regular Joe buyer understand the intricacies of the various technologies employed in this high tech machine? He was told the car would be able to do certain things, bought the car, only to find out that it doesn't. Now it's on him??

There’s been enough written about the foibles of EAP, that a prospective buyer should be able to compare the promises with the reality. The reality is what you read here today and has been written about for some time. No, that doesn’t make over-promising right, but it also doesn’t take common sense and a bit of self-education out of the equation.

Do you really need to be an automotive engineer, specializing in autonomous driving, to read of owner’s experiences over a prolonged period of time?