Idle fee at empty Supercharger?

[8lincoln30]

Just got back from a road trip in which I became desperate for some shuteye and wound up sleeping at the Supercharger in Midland, TX, from about 3 a.m. to 8 a.m. (Yeah, I know it violates SC decorum but mine was the only vehicle at that SC the entire time.)

Anyway, I received an email from Tesla saying I had 277 minutes of idle time - impossible because at least 90 minutes of my stay were active charging time - and fortunately they waived the fee since it was the first time.

My concern, though, is that the SC wasn’t over 50% full at any point. (Counting my car, it was 16.6% full.) Is Tesla not honoring its word on that rule?

And please don’t @ me and tell me what a scoundrel I am for idling! I did it because there were no cars there or at any of the other SCs I stopped at from PHX to DFW, and it was the wee hours of the morning, and I was tired as all hell.

(Edit. It is theoretically possible that a convoy of 2-5 Teslas showed up there a minute after I fell asleep and left a minute before I woke up, but Occam’s razor would suggest otherwise.)

 

[morrisdl]

I got that email too that they were waiving my first idling fee (even though I was the only car in 8 stalls). Not sure if it was a bug in the email notification program. >50% occupancy is very rare here in the east, so was wasnt too worried about it.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

(Edit. It is theoretically possible that a convoy of 2-5 Teslas showed up there a minute after I fell asleep and left a minute before I woke up, but Occam’s razor would suggest otherwise.)

I was going to point that out but it looks like you've already considered that possibility. Better check the dash cam!

 

[TQCLove]

I just had this happen as well. Got the “almost complete” message on my wife’s S as we ate dinner. I purposely got up and looked out there to see we were the only car there (8 stalls). We were almost done so we finished up, grabbed some bread (this SC is at a grocery store) and left.
When we got out to the car there was a Model 3 that had just parked but other than that there was no other cars.
Got home and found that they had charged me for an idle fee. Not happy.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Looks like everyone gets a Mulligan the first time they are charged a fee. Guess sometimes they charge the idle fee, even though the stalls are not congested.

Best defense is to always move your car when charging is completed.

 

[Rocky_H]

Got home and found that they had charged me for an idle fee. Not happy.

That is absolutely against Tesla's official published idle fee policy that is currently stated on their website:
Supercharging

"Idle fees apply to any car occupying a Supercharger if the station is at least 50% full and once the charge session is complete. If the car is moved within 5 minutes of the charge session completion, the fee is waived. To be clear, this is purely about increasing customer happiness and we hope to never make any money from it. Learn more about idle fees."

Tesla is fraudulently charging idle fees when they should not be happening, probably due to their inability to detect the number of stalls in use correctly. They NEED to be challenged on this to refund those false idle fees and to fix their incompetence on this issue.

 

[animorph]

Could be some stalls were nonfunctional and counted as in use? Did you check the nav display for the Supercharger?

 

[TMeister]

Used to be that one got a notice in the phone app that idle fees may apply. That's happened to me before and correlates to times when the Supercharger station was 50% or better full. I haven't seen that since the last iteration of idle fees.

Did any of you get that notice?

 

[whttiger25]

This happened to me as well at the Stateline, NV supercharger last weekend. I plugged in the car and got breakfast before going home. 3 cars out of 14 stalls. So I had a leisurely breakfast and returned to car, still only 3 cars, and was charged a 20 minute fee.

 

[8lincoln30]

Used to be that one got a notice in the phone app that idle fees may apply. That's happened to me before and correlates to times when the Supercharger station was 50% or better full. I haven't seen that since the last iteration of idle fees.

Did any of you get that notice?

I didn’t get the notice this time (but have in the past, and dutifully moved my car as quickly as I could). Clearly there is something wrong here - no notices as in the past and a blatant contradiction of stated policy. Has anyone complained or spoken to Tesla about this?

 

[Rockster]

I don't think any reasonable person can argue against Tesla's right to establish policies for Supercharging fees but this is an entirely different matter altogether. It appears that Tesla is saying one thing and doing another. Not cool at all.

 

[8lincoln30]

I urge you all who are on Twitter to tweet @tesla and @elonmusk about this issue. I did. All of us who can afford a Model S can likely afford an idle fee, but this is just a fundamental question of whether Tesla intends to be honest and trustworthy toward customers. I hope it’s some kind of temporary glitch and not an intentional cash grab.

 

[JoeMartin]

I also got charged while being the only at a supercharger last week. They waived the fees for me, but that's not the point.
Their e-mail support team responded with the "Fees are charged after charge is complete" bs, so I responded back with the Supercharging website where it states it will only be charged if 50% full, and asked if policies have changed.
It's been 3 days, they have not replied back.

 

[TQCLove]

I didn’t get the notice this time (but have in the past, and dutifully moved my car as quickly as I could). Clearly there is something wrong here - no notices as in the past and a blatant contradiction of stated policy. Has anyone complained or spoken to Tesla about this?

I sent an email to customer support Wednesday night. No reply yet but will post here when I do have one.

 

[cpa]

Tesla is fraudulently charging idle fees when they should not be happening, probably due to their inability to detect the number of stalls in use correctly. They NEED to be challenged on this to refund those false idle fees and to fix their incompetence on this issue.

I think RockyH is correct. We have seen scores of instances where the touchscreen indicates that 8 of 10 stalls in use when the truth is that one is in use when someone arrives five minutes later, and the screen continues to reflect that 8/10 are in use throughout the 30-minute charging session.

I agree that we plebs need to challenge Tesla to correct this misinformation and eliminate these spurious idle fees.

But RockyH, take it from this old accountant, this incompetence does not rise to the level of fraudulent behavior. I know; I've seen it.

 

[TMeister]

I found this funny quote from the idle time page: "A customer would never leave a car parked by the pump at a gas station and the same thinking applies with Superchargers". At least out here the norm IS to park at the pump, then go inside, do your mini mart shopping and on the way out buy your stuff and pay for the gas you're going to pump.

Humor aside... Seems like i can infer from posts that this is a mix of free and paid (6 months or 400 kWh) supercharging vehicles. So I'll assume it's not related to that feature of the car.

I have seen in the past that all Superchargers that were in range showed at least half full when they likely were not. I was the only car at the one I went to. Anyone remember if they looked at the stall count and if that correlates with getting charged idle fees? My recollection is that the > 50% full on the map occurred when the last change occurred to Supercharging. Folks here were reporting getting messages about welcome to free Supercharging and the like. It was around the time that the switch was made to 6 months free and v9 came out.

I wonder if the most recent change to allow viewing stall usage at Superchargers in app 3.7 and car 2018.48 (or maybe it was sooner) has caused a similar stall issue and so the automated tools don't really know what stalls are in actual use to get the 50% full trigger.

 

[Rocky_H]

But RockyH, take it from this old accountant, this incompetence does not rise to the level of fraudulent behavior. I know; I've seen it.

That's why I carefully used the wording I did, though. I never said they were committing a crime of fraud. I said the fee is fraudulent, and it is. People are getting charged money for something Tesla has no right to charge them for. But the reason for it is obviously because of an error, mistake, glitch, accident, oversight, etc. It's caused by something that is not malicious, so it would not qualify as the actual crime of "fraud".

Well, dang. I guess I did say "fraudulently charging", but yeah, I meant that the fee isn't valid.

 

[tga]

At least out here the norm IS to park at the pump, then go inside, do your mini mart shopping and on the way out buy your stuff and pay for the gas you're going to pump.

ass·hole
/ˈasˌhōl/
noun
noun: arsehole; plural noun: arseholes; noun: asshole; plural noun: assholes
1 - A person who parks at a fuel pump when not actively pumping fuel.
2 - A person who parks in an EV charging station while not actively charging.

Note how neither definition gives a grace period for number of pumps or charging stations available. Don't be an asshole. Move your car when you aren't charging. It's not that hard, people.

 

[LMichel]

Yes, several of us are being charged even though the SC is under 50% capacity. Support denied my request to waive the fee. My dashcam has proof that no other cars were in the SC while I charged. I'm think about posting it on YT. I think a better idea might be to repeat the charge and have camera rolling from outside the car.

 

[whttiger25]

Interesting online chat transcript with tesla. Just for context, I have already received one "one time complimentary" refund for a past idle charge transgression that truly was my mistake. This time, however, the location was clearly under 50% occupied, so I thought I was ok. There are some obvious moments in this chat where it appears this agent is confused about how various things work.

• Hi, how can I help you today?
• hi, I was charged a supercharger idle fee at the stateline nv supercharger for 20 minutes. However, the station had 4 stalls I believe out of 14, including mine, occupied
• which is below 50%
• I will be glad to assist you with this.
• Now Idle fees are charged when a customer stays connected to the charger when their charging session is completed.
• that is not what is currently on your website
• nor have I received any communication via email or snail mail about this change
• You should've got a notification at 5 mins and then again at 10 mins through your app.
• Idle fees are not supercharging fees they are different.
• currently on your web page: "Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at least 50% full, and double when the station is 100% full. "
• I did get a notification that charging was almost complete, and complete, but I knew the station had less than 50% occupancy
• i never got any notifications about being charged any idle fee
• I understand, the app notification is to remind you that you are almost at full charge and completed charge.
• How much were you charged and how long were you idle for?
• $10 for 20 minutes
• My main point here is that the policy on your website is that the station must be 50% full for an idle fee to be charged, and it wasn't
• There is no evidence anywhere of Tesla's changed policy that you can now be charged an idle fee at a supercharger that is less than 50% full
• I understand, just a moment while I look into this.
• So how would we know?
• thank you
• Your welcome, Jonathan
• Were you at a destination charging station?
• No, I was at the Stateline, NV supercharger
• Thank you.
• I didn't realize you could get an idle fee from a destination charger?
• They are not Tesla charging stations and can charge their own idle fees.
• ok
• Is this your first idle fee?
• I am talking about an idle fee charged by tesla
• this is my second
• the first was legitimate, but was waived as a courtesy
• I understand, just a moment.
• I am checking the supercharging station for what is considered 50% full.
• thanks
• So according to the site at the time you would have been charged they were at 50% full. Unfortunately, because you have already had a fee waived I cannot waive this fee.
• But the location was not 50% full
• and there are other reports online where other customers are experiencing idle fees at empty superchargers
• and earlier you even said there was some new policy that 50% doesn't matter, that you will always be charged the fee when charging is complete regardless of occupancy of the charger, despite the language on the website
• No, what i said was that charging fees and idle fees are different.
• So the problem here is, I as a customer am telling you the site was not 50% full. I've purchased two Model S vehicles, do I have a reason to lie?
• Well the site was not 50% full
• it had 4 stalls of 14 occupied
• you said "Now Idle fees are charged when a customer stays connected to the charger when their charging session is completed."
• And I'm saying, the site was under 50% full and per Tesla's policy online, I was not supposed to be charged
• so my past refund is irrelevant
• Exactly, you the idle fee was charged because you were connected for 20 minutes past the time that you needed for charging.
• correct, but the site was not 50% full, meaning I should not have been charged
• Per the policy on Tesla's website
• Just am moment.
• What city were you in?
• Stateline, NV
• I have it up, thank you.
• Here is what I can do for you, I can submit a request for refund of the idle fee. I cannot guarantee that it will be approved. It can take up to 30 days for refund if approved.
• Does Tesla not maintain evidence of what the supercharging occupancy was when charging idle fees?
• Yes, we do.
• and do you have that up?
• I do yes.
• and it says the station was 50% full?
• What I am seeing is that the site is reporting 50% full, this being said I would like to send to have it review for accuracy and possible refund.
  ok. That's very confusing because it wasn't
• I appreciate it
• You welcome, Jonathan.
• Now it could be an error on the site and this can be corrected.
• Is there anything else that I can assist you with?
• well I be informed of the decision one way or another?
• Yes, you will, just keep in mind it can take 30 days.
• ok thank you, that's good for now