Well said Madartist. For me walking on a new car deal was simple. TMC's trade offer on my car was 6k less than wholesale offers I got independently. I've personally convinced 5 folks to buy Tesla's. Ordered my car essentially after a 3 min test drive in August 2012. With me, they lost a Q4 sale on a $130k car by being cheap on the trade in.
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If you do not mind, Please post your trade in offer from Tesla so we can compare note
- Thread starter lolachampcar
- Start date
If you do not mind, Please post your trade in offer from Tesla so we can comp...
For me, the difference between Tesla's offer and a dealer offer was ~$9k. This is significant in anyone's book. It's just sad that this current practice runs contrary to what Elon said in his recent blog. Like you, I was a huge Tesla supporter and continues to be. However, this whole trade-in experience has soured what has been otherwise a stellar ownership experience for me.
For me, the difference between Tesla's offer and a dealer offer was ~$9k. This is significant in anyone's book. It's just sad that this current practice runs contrary to what Elon said in his recent blog. Like you, I was a huge Tesla supporter and continues to be. However, this whole trade-in experience has soured what has been otherwise a stellar ownership experience for me.
I somehow see Musk coming out of a meeting with Solar City, on how 3rd party PPA allows them to keep SREC/REC/ITC and all these other lingo items, that basically take advantage of tax-preference. Then, he steps into a Tesla meeting with the same mind set, and decides to treat his car owners the same way, with sales tax hostages, reclaiming federal credits, state credits, and everything. A mechanical response, that was presumptuous from the start. One that doesn't work on high end car owners who get it, like it does on "no money down" solar owners who don't. Oops.
It really does not feel that way to me. It feels more like "ok, we know what we gotta sell these things for, how much money we have to put into relocating and cleaning them up and we also know how much we gotta make on them so that doing CPO does not hurt our margins. I guess that means we're gunna pay XYZ for them." But then they went on to say "but we do not want them going to dealers so let's make things real hard for the ones that are smart enough to figure this out".
It is likely similar to the Jobs email that is in the news right now were he says ABC music company is getting started - make sure they can not use iPod to play their stuff. Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
It is likely similar to the Jobs email that is in the news right now were he says ABC music company is getting started - make sure they can not use iPod to play their stuff. Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
I heard the same thing from a Tesla employee yesterday as well - the trade ins are being shipped back to California.
dennis
Model S Plaid
I thought it might be worthwhile to summarize what we know about the Model S Certified Pre-Owned program and speculate about what we don't.
1) It will be a centralized program, with all cars shipped to CA for refurb and then delivered across the country like new vehicles are. [My bet would be Lathrop over Fremont - better trucking logistics and cheaper labor]
2) No hardware upgrades like Autopilot will be done. [Service campaigns for troublesome items like early door handles, 12V batteries, etc. might make sense.]
3) There will be a website where buyers can search the aggregate inventory for the cars that most closely match their desired specs.
4) Cars will carry a Tesla warranty. [Most likely of some minimum length, not just what is left on the original warranty. Will they go all the way to 4 years/50K additional miles?]
5) The sales price will go to the revenue line and the cost of the trade-in + refurb will go to the COGS line. [Hard to maintain 25% margins unless you are buying really low and selling really high]
A big question is how much of a premium will buyers of used Teslas pay for the ordering convenience, large inventory, factory warranty, delivery specialist delivery, etc. of Tesla's CPO program. My guess is quite a bit, but I have no idea how much that would be.
Another question is how will the NADA react to this. Adding used car sales to new cars + all service sure looks like a monopoly.
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I agree with nearly everything @dennis wrote. Except: "Adding used car sales to new cars + all service sure looks like a monopoly."
+ CPO programs are (by definition?) owned by the original manufacturer. Or is Mercedes starting to look like a monopoly?
+ Service - definitely an issue, and in Massachusetts I wonder how Tesla can avoid the state law requiring manufacturer's to share repair information with 3rd party mechanics. But that doesn't make Tesla a monopoly.
+ At the end of the day, Tesla is not a monopoly. Just like Samsung and Apple aren't monopolies. You can buy cars from other vendors. You can even buy electric cars from other vendors. You can also resell your car to someone other than Tesla and you can buy a used Tesla from auto dealers that have them and from private parties. (But I do agree with the points made by others, particularly @lolachampcar, that Tesla is lowballing its offers.)
So... It's not a monopoly.
Alan
+ CPO programs are (by definition?) owned by the original manufacturer. Or is Mercedes starting to look like a monopoly?
+ Service - definitely an issue, and in Massachusetts I wonder how Tesla can avoid the state law requiring manufacturer's to share repair information with 3rd party mechanics. But that doesn't make Tesla a monopoly.
+ At the end of the day, Tesla is not a monopoly. Just like Samsung and Apple aren't monopolies. You can buy cars from other vendors. You can even buy electric cars from other vendors. You can also resell your car to someone other than Tesla and you can buy a used Tesla from auto dealers that have them and from private parties. (But I do agree with the points made by others, particularly @lolachampcar, that Tesla is lowballing its offers.)
So... It's not a monopoly.
Alan
Apple is not a monopoly either and yet they are in hot water for using their position to control music sales via the iPod.....
I have witnessed, and we have documented, Tesla using its position to manipulate the secondary MS market. I feel this manipulation is not in the interest of their most loyal customers and thus not consistent with the company's core values.
And yes, NADA will jump all over this be it right or wrong.
I have witnessed, and we have documented, Tesla using its position to manipulate the secondary MS market. I feel this manipulation is not in the interest of their most loyal customers and thus not consistent with the company's core values.
And yes, NADA will jump all over this be it right or wrong.
Re Apple iTunes / iPod -- the case is in progress, guess we'll see a ruling soon enough.
Don't forget the Apple eBooks / publishers collusion case initiated by the DoJ, which is now on appeal. As Amazon approaches full monopsony status in this market (with respect to the publishers), and arguably has already achieved monopoly status on sales, it'll be interesting to see whether the appeals court still thinks that the district court's decision was sensible.
So... I'd argue that the jury is in but the appeals ruling is pending on Apple/eBooks, and the jury is not yet considering the iTunes/iPod case, so I'm going to stick with Apple not yet being a monopolist.
As for Tesla: naaah. They haven't tied their product to anyone else's.
All that said, I agree with you that Tesla's practice in the secondary market is unattractive. When they do something like try to *squelch* a deal an individual already has in place with another dealer, THEN I'd argue that that's a legally indefensible business practice -- and should they continue doing so, could and should land them in very hot water. But offering lowball valuations qualifies as ugly, poor customer treatment, stupid, a stain on their reputation, and so on... not as a monopolistic practice. IMHO.
Alan
Don't forget the Apple eBooks / publishers collusion case initiated by the DoJ, which is now on appeal. As Amazon approaches full monopsony status in this market (with respect to the publishers), and arguably has already achieved monopoly status on sales, it'll be interesting to see whether the appeals court still thinks that the district court's decision was sensible.
So... I'd argue that the jury is in but the appeals ruling is pending on Apple/eBooks, and the jury is not yet considering the iTunes/iPod case, so I'm going to stick with Apple not yet being a monopolist.
As for Tesla: naaah.
They haven't tied their product to anyone else's.All that said, I agree with you that Tesla's practice in the secondary market is unattractive. When they do something like try to *squelch* a deal an individual already has in place with another dealer, THEN I'd argue that that's a legally indefensible business practice -- and should they continue doing so, could and should land them in very hot water. But offering lowball valuations qualifies as ugly, poor customer treatment, stupid, a stain on their reputation, and so on... not as a monopolistic practice. IMHO.
Alan
They'll offer a fat warranty. The cost is too low, the value perception too high, and the threat of being frozen out of (ok, I'm going to say it) monopoly service is too real to live without one.
Buying mass quantities of your own product, and tucking it away. Didn't the Fed/Treasury do this?
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Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
I hope I am not too much out of line for posting in this thread (I won't be offended if Mods fee otherwise and delete this post), but given what you all are seeing for your trade-ins, I just wanted to say I will be willing to pay 10% or more above Tesla's offer for a private party sale. I missed out on some good sales on the forums based on bad timing (I was traveling for work when the good ones came up), but I figured this could be a win-win. I won't mucky the thread up any more - just wanted to share if others come to share their trade in offers and angst at the pricing.
Edit:
I am looking for a non-performance S85, as performance variants are out of my price range and 60s won't meet my road trip requirements.
Edit:
I am looking for a non-performance S85, as performance variants are out of my price range and 60s won't meet my road trip requirements.
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not out of line at all.....
and that is almost exactly what my P+ went for. The dealership I traded it in at still has it. Given it has been six months, you may get it for what they gave me ($79K with under 20K miles).
and that is almost exactly what my P+ went for. The dealership I traded it in at still has it. Given it has been six months, you may get it for what they gave me ($79K with under 20K miles).
MassModel3
Member
I believe it's been posted in these forums, however, that the warranty only transfers if the car is purchased from and by individuals. I can't find in the warranty anywhere that specifically said "individual owners only" or "no dealerships", but others have said that once the dealership buys the car, Tesla is no longer responsible for any warranty service on the vehicle.
Ownership Transfer
This New Vehicle Limited Warranty is transferable at no cost to any person(s) who subsequently andlawfully assume(s) ownership of the vehicle after the first retail purchaser within the describedlimitations of this New Vehicle Limited Warranty (“subsequent purchaser”).
I know that I would never want to deal with a standard car dealership to buy a Tesla. For two reasons, actually. First is the issue of how to receive warranted repairs, and the second is that most car dealers are slimy vultures who are willing to gouge the buyers just to add some more cash to their own pockets.
Ownership Transfer
This New Vehicle Limited Warranty is transferable at no cost to any person(s) who subsequently andlawfully assume(s) ownership of the vehicle after the first retail purchaser within the describedlimitations of this New Vehicle Limited Warranty (“subsequent purchaser”).
I know that I would never want to deal with a standard car dealership to buy a Tesla. For two reasons, actually. First is the issue of how to receive warranted repairs, and the second is that most car dealers are slimy vultures who are willing to gouge the buyers just to add some more cash to their own pockets.
That is impossible. ANY new car from any manufacturer in the US has the new car warranty transferred no matter who owns it. The service plan and extended warranty may not transfer.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
How fortuitous as I will be in Fort Lauderdale in another week. Heading up to WPB is nothing at that point!
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
By the language you posted there, it would only not apply while it is in the hands of a dealership (or other business). Once it transfers to a subsequent buyer who is a person, the warranty would be in effect again.
MassModel3
Member
Yeah, that makes sense and I bet you're right.
Which means, for instance, a Ford dealership that took it in trade can't have the vehicle serviced under warranty if the active suspension crapped out. That could be a big suck for a dealership trying to offload these very expensive vehicles if they have otherwise warranted repairs that they can't get fixed for free. "Just buy it and take it to Tesla. They'll hook you up -- trust me...!!!"
That again is not true. I have a dealers license for 10 years. Any car I buy at the auction is active under its manufacturer warranty even when under my dealer license and even when I take it for factory dealer repairs.
MassModel3
Member
Oh, good -- hearing it straight from a dealer. :smile:
So are you saying that if someone buys a Tesla from a [non-Tesla] dealership, that the buyer loses nothing in the deal (not counting sales cost) versus had they bought it directly from the previous owner? I'm not being argumentative, but I've read contradictory FUD here in the forums. The written warranty seems vague in that respect so it's confusing. Just looking for the real scoop, thanks.
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