If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[MarcG]

Both I believe. The larger cell has more active material in relation to both the exterior casing and the void left in the center from the forming mandrel.

According to the CleanTechnica article below, the 2170 cells that Tesla uses in the Model 3 has slightly more energy density by weight (247 Wh/kg) than the 18650 found in the S & X (240 Wh/kg).

Tesla Model 3 Battery Pack & Battery Cell Teardown Highlights Performance Improvements | CleanTechnica

In the linked video, the speaker Jack Rickard mentions the energy density by volume is even much better at the pack level: 159.5 Wh/kg for the 3 versus 126.7 Wh/kg for the S/X. Even more impressive given the Model 3 pack includes the junction box, AC charger, and DC/DC converter, whereas these are external to the Model S/X packs.

As far as energy density by volume is concerned, Jack didn’t compute these numbers in his video, but he does provide the inputs to the equation at the cell level:

The 2170 cell is 970 cubic mm for 17.3 Wh, which equates to 0.0178 Wh/mm^3.
The 18650 cell is 660 cubic mm for 10.8 Wh, which equates to 0.0164 Wh/mm^3.

So, it appears the 2170 cell used in the Model 3 is also more energy dense by volume than the 21650 cell uses in S/X.

 

[JRP3]

I'm not sure where they got their numbers, I've seen ratings closer to 260Wh/kg for Model S cells. Jacks measurements of used cells may not be accurate.

Each cell was of the 18650 form factor (i.e., an 18 mm diameter, 65 mm height cylinder), similar to the Panasonic NCR18650B cell that has an energy density of 265 Wh/kg

Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

 

[Spacey73]

Isn’t this the guy who swears by bottom balancing cells by lowest voltage rather than top balancing..... lost respect for him after that suggestion.

 

[JRP3]

It actually works well with LiFePO4 chemistry if you aren't using a BMS. The 9 year old pack in my car can attest to that, though I did have one weak cell go bad because I over discharged the pack too often. That cell was an oddball from the beginning and I only left it in to see what would happen. Replacing that cell was still cheaper by far than buying a BMS, especially the ones available when I built the pack.

 

[Tslacg]

Wow I have a 75 which is throttled and hadn't heard of the 100 being throttled before. How much has your peak charge rate changed? I used to peak in the 96-98 KW range at superchargers now it hits 81 KW for a minute or two a the peak and tapers very quickly. It's quite a difference.

I used to get 144kw peak after the software, 122 before, I now get 96kw, quickly dropping down to mid 70s.

 

[Dublin 'Eer]

I used to get 144kw peak after the software, 122 before, I now get 96kw, quickly dropping down to mid 70s.

That sounds very similar to mine. It peaks at 81kW somewhere around 50% or slightly over and tapers very quickly from there. 144 to 96 is a huge drop.

 

[BestyS]

I have an early 2019 100D S.
I drive about 500 mi a week.
I have no 220v on one end of my travels.
I have lost about 15 mi from expected 335 mi.
I supercharge at leat once a week.
I have stopped charging to 100% awhile ago after reading reports. My salesman never gave me any advice about charging even though a told him my plan use of my car.
I charge using 220v on one end and 110v on other end. I had no access to 110v charging for about 5 months.
I am seeing rates of 30 kw to charge now at Supercharger.
Not sure if temp related, will see as spring comes. I have a new v3 charger coming online in my travels. I have 17k miles after 8 months of ownership.
I wouldn’t mind 5 min charging, but I sometimes sit for an hour to get enough charge to get home. No supercharger for 170+ mile stretch. I will need to try another Supercharger. Was told some go bad. I got a reply on car one day that the station was overloaded; yet, there were 3 of us and no shared stations.

 

[DarkMatter]

30 kW is not likely to be because of throttling. Likely causes: cold battery, starting from high SOC, inlet connector problem, cooling system problem. If you're arriving with a solidly warm battery (1+ hours of driving) and below 50% and still getting 30 kW rates, I would reach out to Service as something is wrong.

BTW, back to the original thread, just saw 125 kW today on my 90 pack, for a nice sustained period. If you're not throttled it should still be possible to get those rates in ideal conditions. Of course my charge today dropped to 60 up when someone rolled in to the nearly empty SC station and proceeded to pick a stall, then move to the shared stall. I talked with them as they were leaving their car, and they said they moved because they were getting a low charge rate. A quick peek at their car's charging port and the flashes told me it was because they were solidly above 50% SOC. I tried to explain but they didn't get it, so I finally gave up and moved my car to get my rate back.

It would be great if Tesla would add a 'why is my rate low' troubleshooting button to the charging screen. It could tell you things like paired station status, high SOC, low pack temperature, and yes, even throttling, based on what the car knows about the session. They never will add a troubleshooter like that, sadly.

 

[MarcG]

It could tell you things like paired station status, high SOC, low pack temperature, and yes, even throttling, based on what the car knows about the session. They never will add a troubleshooter like that, sadly.

Add to that list overheating charger or issues with the supercharger itself. This has been more and more of an issue, based on my recent experience. That alone would be enough cause for Tesla to shy away from a troubleshooter.

 

[DarkMatter]

Add to that list overheating charger or issues with the supercharger itself. This has been more and more of an issue, based on my recent experience. That alone would be enough cause for Tesla to shy away from a troubleshooter.

Culturally they are not fans of admitting fault, so I get why it'll never happen. Still gonna dream.

 

[Kofek]

Anyone tried to send higher bms max charge canbus value to see if it can create higher charge power? It's sends from x232 byte 0 and 1 ( in reverse) . Seems to easy or it might create error messages?

 

[Tslacg]

Add to that list overheating charger or issues with the supercharger itself. This has been more and more of an issue, based on my recent experience. That alone would be enough cause for Tesla to shy away from a troubleshooter.

True, but it sure would be nice if they would create one. The ambiguity around my issue has caused me to lose the same love I had for Tesla. It's still a great car, but I've purchased another vehicle for a daily driver and only drive my model x on occasion.

 

[Naonak]

True, but it sure would be nice if they would create one. The ambiguity around my issue has caused me to lose the same love I had for Tesla. It's still a great car, but I've purchased another vehicle for a daily driver and only drive my model x on occasion.

What'd you go with? I can't bring myself to go back to a gas car, and the Taycan is a joke, so I'm kinda left optionless at this point.

 

[Dublin 'Eer]

What'd you go with? I can't bring myself to go back to a gas car, and the Taycan is a joke, so I'm kinda left optionless at this point.

Hold out for a Rivian and see if they're as good as it appears they may be.

 

[Tslacg]

What'd you go with? I can't bring myself to go back to a gas car, and the Taycan is a joke, so I'm kinda left optionless at this point.

I did a highly optioned xc90 t8. Certainly doesn't have the oomph of the X, but it made me realize how loud and rough around the edges my x is.

Nothing will put a smile on my face like an suv that does 0-60 in under 3 seconds, but for daily drives even around the city I've caught myself driving the xc90. It's just flat out more comfortable and refined in just about every aspect.

 

[mjptech]

I did a highly optioned xc90 t8. Certainly doesn't have the oomph of the X, but it made me realize how loud and rough around the edges my x is.

Nothing will put a smile on my face like an suv that does 0-60 in under 3 seconds, but for daily drives even around the city I've caught myself driving the xc90. It's just flat out more comfortable and refined in just about every aspect.

I would still be in my T8 inscription if it wasn't a lemon. In an X now, but, I sure miss the comfort and feel of the XC90.

 

[Tslacg]

I would still be in my T8 inscription if it wasn't a lemon. In an X now, but, I sure miss the comfort and feel of the XC90.

It's a great car. Certainly not as fun to be in as the X, but after putting 52,000 miles on my X, I'm admittedly a bit sick of the creaks and groans. I feel much older in the xc90 tho

 

[DavidB]

It's a great car. Certainly not as fun to be in as the X, but after putting 52,000 miles on my X, I'm admittedly a bit sick of the creaks and groans. I feel much older in the xc90 tho

I'm kinda sick of my creaks and groans, too. But my Tesla is great!

 

[Tslacg]

I'm kinda sick of my creaks and groans, too. But my Tesla is great!

Hahahaha

 

[MDR SEA]

Dunno, but I'm satisfied with 75-90kWh.