Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Improving Supercharger Availability $0.40 idle fee

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Surely an hour and 15 minutes is plenty of time to walk 10 minutes, dine, and walk 10 minutes back to my car. Now let's say the charging speed increases because I'm no longer sharing power with the only other Tesla who was parked next to me and my car is done in 50 minutes. Now I've already planned to be back in the original timeframe and no, I don't feel I should have get up and walk 20 minutes round trip to move my car to avoid being charged

Wouldn't it only be a 10 minute walk to retrieve the car? I assume you would drive it back to the restaurant (or I would at least.).

You would have to decide if it's worth the $10 to just finish your meal if your car was done 25 minutes early. Besides, you only get charged if there is congestion, so not being back at your car when it's done could be causing someone else to wait.


I am frankly surprised by the number of people who don't get back to their car when it's done charging at a supercharger. I wonder what Tesla's data on this looks like - the percentages of cars that idle after charging is done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zythryn
The app already tells you when Supercharging is nearly complete. I get a push notification at least 15 minutes before it's complete. What am I missing?

You can't plan for it beforehand and even that 15 min is not reliable if stall sharing event or something other unpredictable happens. Better stay nearby then, not at a restaurant 15 min away...
 
I used a supercharger yesterday fo the first time since the idle fee announcement. I have an Android phone, and notifications have been down on those phones for a few days, just recently being re-activated. This Supercharger was at an outlet mall with 5 charging stalls, and it was pretty busy in general. There was only one car charging when I arrived and I visited with the owner for a few minutes, and a 3rd car pulled in to charge while we were talking. I wanted to get something to eat, so I wandered off, since I only had 25 minutes left in the charge.

I arrived at the restaurant and visited the restroom, got my food and sat down. I was curious/nervous about the SC being half full, and whether I could eat and get back to the car in time to beat the 5 minute grace period, so I got out my phone to monitor the situation.

I was surprised that I had a notification that my charge was almost complete! Crap, no way I can eat my food and make it back to the car in time. Then I looked more closely, and the Tesla app said I still had 20 minutes on the charge. No problem. Ate and returned to the car, and there were ZERO other cars at the supercharger.

I guess what I took away from the experience is 1) Tesla better be sure they are devoting resources to make their notification system work before they start charging people money for times when it doesn't work correctly (a charging almost complete notice 20 minutes before completion is pretty worthless), and 2) Supercharging is a LOT more stressful now.
 
Last edited:
You can't plan for it beforehand and even that 15 min is not reliable if stall sharing event or something other unpredictable happens. Better stay nearby then, not at a restaurant 15 min away...
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this "planning" excuse. I've been at enough Superchargers to know that charging is relatively predictable, and very, very rarely does it charge more quickly than I'd like or expect. Also, how far are people going to restaurants? If you're going to a restaurant more than 15 minutes' walk away and you plan to eat a seated meal, clearly you're range charging due to weather or distance. Even in the best of circumstances, you know how much time you have.

I believe the Tesla charge estimate on your car ("Charge 20 minutes to reach destination" or whatever) is conservative already. Plan on that, and you're unlikely to accrue a penny in charges.
 
With his followup tweet Elon has complicated things unnecessarily in my opinion. The original Idle Fee announcement was clear and unambiguous. But now how is someone using an uncrowded Supercharger to know if they are going to get charged an Idle Fee or not? If they leave their car and several Teslas show up soon after and start charging, the site is no longer "basically deserted", but if they cannot observe the site directly they won't know that. Elon needs to clarify this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elon MuskVerified account‏@elonmusk
@TeslaMotors We are going to modify this so that people only pay a fee if most bays are occupied. If the site is basically deserted, no problem to park.
 
I keep a note in my car that that provides my (non-smart) phone number, and states that I will be happy to move my car at time, 24hrs a day, no problem, ASAP.

I actually do that at destination chargers where I'm likely to be plugged in all night because charging will finish at 2 or 3 in the morning. My notes have my cell number and instruct them to call me to move my car if they need to charge even if it means getting up in the middle of the ni
Nothing stopping you from using the phone app to inquire on state of charge at any time.
It is really very easy to figure out how long till the charge is complete.

The only time supercharging is stressful is showing up at the location to find all of the stalls full.

I'm going to quote myself from an earlier reply:

Read the first 4 pages but not going to have a chance to catch up on the rest.

This policy is long overdue and I'm thrilled with it provided they fix a few things first.

1) We need to have reliable SMS messaging to our phones that work even if the app has quite or isn't running which is the case on my Android frequently. I almost never getting the charging updates and even when I do, there is no audible notification.

2) We need SMS messages when charging is about to finish and not just when it does because 5 minutes may not be long enough to walk back from this or that restaurant.

3) They need to not charge use parking lot fees if they can't notify us. For instance, my MS, which only has 3g, spends less than half the time on the AT&T. If I don't hotspot to my android, my MS isn't connected more than half they time. Tesla has suggested that they can fix this issue for $500 but I'm not paying them $500 to fix something I already paid for and should already work.

4) They need to notify is when the charging rate has dramatically increased. Just yesterday I was at Red Robin in Manteca. We spent an hour there eating lunch but only needed about 10 minutes of charging. However, the supercharger would only charge 30KW. I was in 3b. Nobody was in 3a. It said would take 40 minutes to charge. I checked it again 20 minutes later and it said 20 minutes left. So far so good except for the slowness but I wasn't in a rush this time otherwise I would have swapped until I got a good charge rate. Then I checked int 10 minutes later and it said it was done. WTF????? When I checked VT at home, I'd discovered that about 21 minutes into charging, the charge rate jumped up to 84KW and quickly reached the 60% setpoint ( I was only 60 miles from home). Did I just get charged a fee for staying in that spot for 10 minutes after finshing? I checked like 3 times throughout and never got an app notification even though the car was connected this time. I didn't receive any notifications of overages but then again my app is 3 months old since last updated and there is no new update.
 
My biggest issue with this whole announcement is that once again it seems like a rash, reactive, hastily put together, and poorly thought through policy by Tesla....
Here's a few thoughts on how they could frame a balanced policy:...
You can't simultaneously state that their process is rash and hastily put together, then proposed a list of highly complex bullet points that would be nearly impossible to implement, or at least without major resources to accomplish this. Trying to change behavior by suggesting proper etiquette squarely fits into that box. They needed an easy fix, and found it. There could be alternative methods, and they probably debated these at a conference table over many hours, over many weeks or months, and came up with this solution. It makes sense, and as I said before, it hits the low-hanging fruit.

From the Tesla website: "Stations are strategically placed to minimize stops during long distance travel and are conveniently located near restaurants, shopping centers, and WiFi hot spots."... I don't feel I should have get up and walk 20 minutes round trip to move my car to avoid being charged, thus ruining dinner.
Like someone else said, you can drive your car back, so it would be 10 minutes, not 20. Besides, as you said, most SCs are located NEAR restaurants, closer than 10 minutes. If you choose to go farther away at a very busy SC, you take the risk. It is not fair to inconvenience others who need to reach their destination, and make them wait so that you can be less inconvenienced for your meal.
Should I be charged $.40 a minute for the 25 minute difference between what the estimate was vs. the actual charging time? I don't feel I should.
Yes, you should.

Certainly this is one example of a relatively rare instance, but most people on here complaining are also complaining about relatively rare instances of superchargers being full and having to wait. I say relatively rare because of the 769 supercharger locations, there is most likely a problem in 50-75 of them in California and a few other major metropolitan areas.
Well, there you go then. If it is rare, than it is not a huge concern, is it? Seems like a worst case scenario for you and other similar drivers would be a few bucks on a very rare occasion. I am not sure if that warrants any true concern requiring a change in this policy. Let's give a chance for the new policy to work. Tesla already listened to its customers and immediately updated their policy. If a Supercharger is not busy, the penalty is not enforced. If a Supercharger is busy, drivers must immediately move their car. Not 5 minutes later, not 10 minutes later, but immediately and let someone else get in so they can reach their destination. We as drivers have no right to dictate that other people have to wait because we want to have a relaxed meal. That just seems selfish.

Someone else upthread mentioned that handicapped drivers may need more time to get back to their cars. There are likely other reasonable circumstances. My guess is if they called Tesla once back on the road and explained, the fee would be waived. Tesla just rolls that way.
 
Have some common sense and move your car when its done charging.

The 5 minute grace period is fine. No need to change anything there.

Why would anyone need 3 hours at a supercharger spot? That is crazy.

There are a few locations where the common restaurant that everyone goes to when charging is more than a 5 minute walk. That combined with rapidly changing estimates can make end time charging unpredictable(I posted a common solid example of this above). We really need notifications in advance when charging is about to finish but hasn't yet. If they can do that, then they should keep the 5 minute grace period and not increase it.

An automated call, not just an SMS, would be a nice option for those that can't hear the more subtle audible notifications from SMS.
 
The app already tells you when Supercharging is nearly complete. I get a push notification at least 15 minutes before it's complete. What am I missing?

I feel what is missing is also notifying you if the supercharger is becoming congested. If my car is the only car there and I choose to stay and have desert as well, knowing my car is charged but NOBODY is waiting or being inconvienced, then tell me exactly what am I hurting? Do I deserve a penalty because I chose to stay and have desert? Or perhaps I met a fellow Tesla owner and he and I are enjoying conversation, we both check our phones, we both realize our cars are done charging but NOBODY else is waiting so we decide to stay and chat a little longer, again I ask, what is it hurting? Do we both deserve a penalty? Naturally we aren't going to stay for idle for hours, but an extra 20 - 30 minutes should be no problem whatsoever.

Part of Tesla ownership I'm told is enjoying the community of fellow owners. I'm personally looking forward to meeting other owners and enjoying a bite to eat with them while talking about our cars, I'd like that time to be spent not worrying about whether or not I'm about to pay a fee. And from the tone of some in this thread, it doesn't sound like it will be California owners I'll be sharing my table with, and that's fine with me. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dauger and sorka
I was surprised that I had a notification that my charge was almost complete! Crap, no way I can eat my food and make it back to the car in time. Then I looked more closely, and the Tesla app said I still had 20 minutes on the charge. No problem. Ate and returned to the car, and there were ZERO other cars at the supercharger.

I guess what I took away from the experience is 1) Tesla better be sure they are devoting resources to make their notification system work before they start charging people money for times when it doesn't work correctly (a charging almost complete notice 20 minutes before completion is pretty worthless), and 2) Supercharging is a LOT more stressful now.

My response to this will be to bump my charge up to 100% and then manually monitor it every 10 minutes or so. Set at 100%, it will be almost impossible for me to finish charging. The unfortunate thing will be if I forget to set it back down to 80% for home and I end up charging to 100% and even sometimes leaving it like that for a few days(if not driving) before I realize.
 
My response to this will be to bump my charge up to 100% and then manually monitor it every 10 minutes or so. Set at 100%, it will be almost impossible for me to finish charging. The unfortunate thing will be if I forget to set it back down to 80% for home and I end up charging to 100% and even sometimes leaving it like that for a few days(if not driving) before I realize.

I have a 60D. My charge limit is always 100% when traveling. You're right, I sometimes forget to reset it lower when I get home, but I do it frequently so I guess I remember a little better. And if I don't, it's no big deal. :cool:
 
My response to this will be to bump my charge up to 100% and then manually monitor it every 10 minutes or so. Set at 100%, it will be almost impossible for me to finish charging. The unfortunate thing will be if I forget to set it back down to 80% for home and I end up charging to 100% and even sometimes leaving it like that for a few days(if not driving) before I realize.

That's an interesting point, I wonder if Tesla can implement software that "defaults" back to 80 or 90% charge unless you have purposely put the car in "trip mode"?
 
Have some common sense and move your car when its done charging.

The 5 minute grace period is fine. No need to change anything there.

Why would anyone need 3 hours at a supercharger spot? That is crazy.
Covered this in my previous post. To rehash, if a maximum of 5 minutes grace is required then Tesla has a supply problem, the owner is not the problem. The three-hour parking cap would be primarily to stop overnight or multi-day parking. Perhaps this could be a shorter window, such as two hours, but there are times when dinner plus walk time exceeds two hours. Again, outside of CA and some urban areas, most superchargers are barren (I've been to about 75 of them). What's the harm in those cases? My point was mostly that Tesla has lots of data on all of the charging historical metrics, but released a rash, rushed, and not very thoughtful policy (thoughtful in the sense of "showing careful consideration or attention"). Are we TMC members overthinking these policies? Perhaps. However, mostly because Tesla underthought (if that's a word) the policies.
 
I feel what is missing is also notifying you if the supercharger is becoming congested. If my car is the only car there and I choose to stay and have desert as well, knowing my car is charged but NOBODY is waiting or being inconvienced, then tell me exactly what am I hurting? Do I deserve a penalty because I chose to stay and have desert?
If congestion is part of the billing algorithm, then I agree it should be added to the notifications. My feeling is that it will. However, you're moving the goalposts. I was responding to your claim here:
Now let's say the charging speed increases because I'm no longer sharing power with the only other Tesla who was parked next to me and my car is done in 50 minutes. Now I've already planned to be back in the original timeframe and no, I don't feel I should have get up and walk 20 minutes round trip to move my car to avoid being charged, thus ruining dinner. Does that make me inconsiderate? I planned around what my car originally told me, then things changed beyond my control, so no, I don't feel that makes me inconsiderate. Should I be charged $.40 a minute for the 25 minute difference between what the estimate was vs. the actual charging time? I don't feel I should.
We can come up with hypotheticals all day. Your argument is that you shouldn't be inconvenienced without reason. I agree with that. If indeed the Supercharger is half empty or more, you should be able to stay there until you wrap up your dessert. As soon as it becomes half full or more, billing should immediately commence and you should receive a notification saying so.

Worst case, you're 15 minutes late and your convenience cost you $6. That seems reasonable enough. Or, if you're cost sensitive, you run like the wind to the Supercharger, burn off that sugary dessert, and save Medicare a few bucks during your retirement. :)