Info on Autopilot + v7
- Thread starter Footbag
- Start date
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Well, this is interesting.
Assuming Footbag isn't kidding, I think we may be able to whittle the options down to tapping something on the main display every few minutes and pushing the TACC stalk. The steering wheel wouldn't have any way of knowing if it was just being touched, as I don't believe it has sensors for that. So I think we can safely rule out that option. As for hitting a button on the steering wheel, all the buttons on the steering wheel have functions that aren't going to be rendered unnecessary while TACC--even TACC with lane-keeping active--is functioning. So I think we can rule out buttons on the steering wheel.
That leaves the TACC stalk (which makes a lot of sense) and some sort of pop-up on the display (which makes less sense, since it involves taking your eyes off the road and at least one hand away from where it would be able to steer if needed.)
So my money is on something involving the TACC stalk.
TonyOrr specifically said "push the TACC stalk", but I'm going to guess that Footbag may have lumped anything involving the TACC stalk button into that as well. Since the button has no function other than to toggle TACC on and off, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the nag Footbag was told about involved the TACC stalk button. It could still be used to toggle the system on and off, but when being nagged, pressing the button doesn't toggle the system off, but rather answers the nag. Or Tesla could do something regarding the duration of the button push, just as they have with the duration of the pulls on the stalk.
So I say it's the button.
Ingineer
Electrical Engineer
- Aug 8, 2012
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The steering wheel could definitely sense the mass of your hands on it through the torque sensor. When the wheel moves a little, there will be a larger torque sensed with your hand mass vs. just the wheel itself. This is also how the Mercedes system works, and note that it can be defeated by adding ANY reasonable mass to the wheel, it doesn't have to be a hand. (in the Mercedes case, taping a red bull to the wheel defeats it)
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I saw that video of the can (or was it two cans?) taped to the wheel.
It just seems like if Tesla was going to go for just some acknowledgment that the driver wasn't asleep, they wouldn't necessarily want the driver interfering with the steering the car was doing. If we have to steer to show the car we're awake, doesn't that defeat the purpose?
Also I'm guessing if I saw that video the powers that be at Tesla did too. They're not going to want to design a nag system that could be bypassed that easily.
My money is still on the TACC button.
A simple main display popup would be sufficient.
Boeing actually does something like this on the 747-400 and -8-- every 15 minutes, it puts up a warning message, which needs to be acknowledged.
Boeing actually does something like this on the 747-400 and -8-- every 15 minutes, it puts up a warning message, which needs to be acknowledged.
I'm afraid a button on the main screen would be too distracting, because it would require to look away from the road ahead. In a 747 en-route on autopilot that is not a problem. Pilot is focused on instruments and nearest objects are usually miles away.
Hope we'll not be driving like Mercedes owners, but I can't think of anything other than steering wheel.
Maybe a steering wheel button?
Hope we'll not be driving like Mercedes owners, but I can't think of anything other than steering wheel.
Maybe a steering wheel button?
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I sold my 2015 S550 for a P85D just so that I don't have to deal with this crap again. The S550 Active Lane Assist requires a torque on the wheel so distinctively, that sometimes I had my hands on the wheel and it wouldn't recognize it.
So I had to pull on the wheel, just to make it go out of line, which it would then correct. Totally unnecessary, and literally defeats the whole purpose of the system.
I'm really hoping that the nag can be disabled, with a huge liability warning etc, like the suspension lowering at high speeds.
I'm happy enough to stay awake without a nag, its just pointless otherwise.
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Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I just want to be clear about what we (or at least I) was discussing.
When I said "My money is still on the TACC button" I was referring to the nag feature being tested, as explained to Footbag when he met the Tesla employee at the supercharger. I'm saying I think that's what is being tested, not necessarily that it is going to be implemented.
I certainly hope that we get lane-keeping without any sort of nagging. And yes, Musk is definitely on record as being opposed to nag features, from a safety standpoint. I'm not attempting to predict whether or not the first iteration of lane-keeping is going to come with a nag feature or not. I was merely providing my thoughts on what might currently be being tested, as it was described to Footbag.
I assume you never adjust the nav system while you're driving then... or select a new station on Slacker or TuneIn... or any of those sort of things.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I'll address that, because I had made the same point earlier.
The argument I'm making as to why Tesla wouldn't use a pop-up on the 17-inch display as a nag feature is that it makes no sense for them to --purposely cause a distraction-- and --purposely cause a driver to move a hand from where it can steer the car-- just to make sure the driver is still alert and not distracted, and able to steer the car if need be. I just don't believe Tesla would do that, as it's counter-productive.
Note too that currently no one is --required-- to use anything on the 17 inch display while driving. Tesla gives us the ability to distract ourselves if we so desire, but they are not going to be the ones to distract us, in order to make sure we're not distracted. It's not going to happen.
I'm going with TACC stalk. Makes sense to tug it, push it, prod it or whatever once in a while if they need to. My preference would definitely be for a no Nag option! Having to pull the stalk to resume TACC after it's gone into 'HOLD' after 3 seconds is already a bind 
But... the point is that you're NOT driving at that moment, autopilot is. So looking down for a moment to dismiss a warning shouldn't make any difference. Oh, I suppose in the one in a billion case where the warning comes up just as the sudden fog layer descends or the deer jumps in front of the car, then yes, maybe it could make a difference. Or, the car could be hit by a meteor just as the warning comes up-- about as likely.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
You can bring up crazy and ridiculous scenarios to your heart's content. I'll stand by my position that Tesla is not going to require anything in the way of a nag acknowledgment as a method to prove that a driver is not distracted that in any way could be seen as itself being a distraction from the job at hand, which is operating the vehicle.
Ingineer
Electrical Engineer
- Aug 8, 2012
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We can speculate all we want as a fun exercise, but we have to wait and see what they come up with. I'm interested in seeing how they deal with all the potential strange situations. Like what if the driver leaves the seat? Does the car stop in the lane? Keep driving? Pull over? If the system has to "disengage", and the driver doesn't take over (Sleeping. Heat attack, etc.) then what does the car do?
I thought about this on my way home from work and have now changed my opinion. Using they TACC stalk is too close to the steering wheel. When I pull the lever stalk I use the steering wheel for leverage. Wouldn't be a good option if the moving the steering wheel disables auto-steering in any way so I therefore think the most likely option is a great big square on the 17" display with a countdown timer. Big enough to hit without being fiddly or too distracting. Ingineer, In the event of not hitting the screen in time then I'd expect the car to switch on the hazard lights and slow to a stop. Fun to speculate. Hopefully we'll all know 'soon'
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
What do you use for leverage when you press the button on the end of the TACC stalk?
gizmoboy
Member
Automatically pulling over is awesome but seems fraught with edge cases (what if I'm on a bridge? No shoulder? Cliffside? Meteor is falling onto the shoulder as I pull over, etc.).
I love the concept of it being safer to have this enabled than not if a driver were to become incapacitated. But if it's not perfect, will people still bitch/sue/etc.?
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