Even worse. What happens if the battery freezes? Could happen at extreme temps I would think.
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Even worse. What happens if the battery freezes? Could happen at extreme temps I would think.
It's just not that simple. It depends on your local weather as well as how long the car has been sitting in that weather. Like I said above, the range mode toggle is very very dumb. Take for example the passive heating target, is you're driving around SoCal, it could mean you get a very hot battery, all the time. After you park, it won't cool down that much either. But if it's 0F out, then by all means pump as much waste heat into the battery as possible, because as soon as you stop the battery temps will plummet.
Ok let's do that. What is the passive heating target? Does it, in fact, not vary based on the outside temperature (which the car knows)? What algorithm does the car use for setting the passive heating target, in and out of range mode? If there is a simple beneficial change to the algorithm as you suggest, why hasn't Tesla made it?
Thank you kindly.
hacer
Active Member
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I said "Let's assume for the sake of argument" ---
It's kind of like what I say to the climate change deniers: Let's assume for the sake of argument it is only conjecture, shouldn't we err on the side of caution? ...
I know the science on climate change is fact and we have no facts regarding range mode. But when speaking to climate change deniers, I make the same argument I am making regarding range mode. That is, to err on the side of caution and only turn it on when absolutely needed since there are valid arguments to be made that it degrades the battery faster, although the science is not settled on range mode.
I said it somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but this is how I am actually treating range mode, since I have read some very good arguments in support of it degrading the battery faster. My comments was completely on topic and there's no reason to move any of these posts to main climate change thread. In my view, I made a valid point as to why to only use range mode sparingly. That is, to err on the side of caution and I used an analogy appropriate to this forum to make my point. Really, you can stop a climate change denier in his/her tracks just by saying, "even if all the scientist are wrong, shouldn't we err on the side of caution, for the sake of our children?"
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The interesting thing that seems to be happening here, at least on some level, is you have two different prevailing perspectives who feel that it's the job of the other to prove them wrong.
One perspective asserts that range mode mode is detrimental to long-term battery life, and the burden of proof, in their view, is for someone to prove to them otherwise.
One perspective asserts that Tesla is smarter than this and feels the burden of proof is on the opposing perspective to demonstrate how range mode is more detrimental to battery life than "normal" mode.
One perspective asserts that range mode mode is detrimental to long-term battery life, and the burden of proof, in their view, is for someone to prove to them otherwise.
One perspective asserts that Tesla is smarter than this and feels the burden of proof is on the opposing perspective to demonstrate how range mode is more detrimental to battery life than "normal" mode.
We don't know how this works, but we trust Tesla
vs
We know what it's doing, maybe not in all cases but enough cases, and it's not what you think it is.
The question I have is if it could damage our battery under certain use cases and Tesla knows this (who else would know better) then why not put one of those little information "i" icons next to the switch with the warning or information. The battery has an 8-year warranty so why not protect their exposure if this is fact?
Probably makes little difference to the warranty. The replacement threshold due to capacity loss is pretty large, although I don't remember off hand what it is. Now, it would suck to be an owner that's 1% above the replacement threshold, you can certainly be that guy though.
There are trips around here, even with the newly permitted superchargers, that become very difficult when you lose that much capacity.
See post #108 (frozen battery couldn't charge). Probably not warranty related but if you live in cold conditions this would be good to know from Tesla if true.
I think I've spent a lot of time on this thread (and others) detailing how cold weather usability is basically neglected by Tesla Motors. If I was employed at Tesla and it was my job to make sure the software worked, I would probably file about 50 bugs/changes on day 1, all which are low effort/high payback.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
Ah, this makes sense of it, I think.
In cold weather, setting the temp. target higher while using only scavenged heat avoids the threat of active cooling of the battery, which could otherwise consume energy. And it probably doesn't hurt performance or the battery.
In hot weather, this is also beneficial in holding off and reducing battery cooling, and presumably waste heat is not being scavenged into the battery but rather is being radiated away under those conditions.
So the rules being used in Range mode are i) don't heat the battery with useful energy, and ii) don't cool the battery with useful energy, unless absolutely necessary, that is, using the widest possible temperature limits.
Have I got it right?
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
I've been in a Model S during the summer with range mode on that let the drive unit or battery pack get into an overheat condition and then pretty much take all the cooling capability from the cabin and pump it into the drive unit/batter pack. Sadly, the UI (in 7.1) didn't tell you about this fact. After rebooting 6 or 7 times, trying this or that setting, the service center finally confirmed the overheat condition remotely and our solution was to pull over for 10 minutes and let the car cool down. Sad that the car never said anything and internal temp got above 100*F.
March 2015 P85D with 31K miles. Range mode has always been left on. When new, 90% was 227. 100% was 253. With 31K miles now 90% is 226 and 100% is 251.
Does this mean if I'd left range mode off I wouldn't have lost 1 or 2 miles of capacity???
Does this mean if I'd left range mode off I wouldn't have lost 1 or 2 miles of capacity???
The only 'bad' thing range mode does is to keep the battery a little warmer when driving. It doesn't do anything when the car is parked.
Driving 31k miles is roughly the equivalent to 900 hours. 20 months of ownership is 14400 hours. So the car is in use only 6.5% of the time. Only during that time Range Mode keeps the temperature a little higher. For 93.5% of the time the battery temperature is the same as in a car with Range Mode turned off. Considering the small temperature difference doesn't have a significant effect on degradation and on top of it, it only happens 6.5% of the time, I think it's safe to assume range mode has not caused any more degradation that would be noticeable.
No one knows except Tesla. What is your typical charging pattern? Limit/Rate/Supercharger?
Unless I'm on a long multiple supercharger trip, the car is pretty much stored around 50% SOC and then only charged right before I leave.
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