Is FSD refundable

[raptor5244]

My Impala with the 383 and custom dual exhaust with X pipe could set off car alarms from the engine noise, and the cam lope was palpable.

I do not miss it.

I actually swapped in a camaro dash cluster to get more gauges so I get that- but can't really think of any I'd care about having on an EV.

So really the only things on the list I'd want on my 3 even if I could get em would be the magnetic shocks, and better lateral support on the seats.


As to the BRZ from my (limited) reading it's a lot more a Subaru that Toyota is slapping their name on- kinda of like the abomination that is the BMW Supra.

Toyota increasingly is looking like it's gonna be the Nokia of the EV transition.

Yeah, Toyota has definitely lost their way when it comes to the enthusiasts cars. The older Supras, Celicas and MR2s were fun cars. I am not a fan of the collaboration cars with Subaru and BMW. Dodge probably did the best job of marketing over the years. Gotta hand it to them for keeping that heavy platform selling so well for so long. They will be interesting to watch to see how they handle the EV transition for that type of customer base.

 

[Knightshade]

FWIW I agree Dodge did great marketing-- just the quality of their cars not so great

As an example a buddy of mine had a charger- in the first 2 years he had half a dozen major issues, failing brakes, falling headliner, busted seat controls, etc...

Yet he traded it in on another, faster, one. That also had multiple problems.

He's now driving an Accord because his wife got sick of it- and shopping for a Tesla because I took him for a ride in a P100D.

Given Dodge can't seem to get ICE vehicles they've been making for 100 years right (apart from a nice engine) my confidence in their eventual EVs is...not super high.

Always willing to be surprised though

 

[EVNow]

These points in particular are where a lot of our divergence in opinion comes from it seems.

What I see is a GM that is fully committed to growing the EV segment and can really only go up from here. A LOT in fact.

You are assuming it is easy to turn around huge 100 yr old companies. No it’s not.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497178059371208704

 

[cobra]

You are assuming it is easy to turn around huge 100 yr old companies. No it’s not.

[sarcasm font] Hahaha, wonder why there distribution costs are so much higher??? [/sarcasm font]

Seems like that has nothing to do with 'attracting talent' and more to do with thinking about the dealership model? Sad to see though, this guy speaks like he is not leading an organization, but rather riding the horse with a mind of its own!

 

[EVNow]

[sarcasm font] Hahaha, wonder why there distribution costs are so much higher??? [/sarcasm font]

Seems like that has nothing to do with 'attracting talent' and more to do with thinking about the dealership model? Sad to see though, this guy speaks like he is not leading an organization, but rather riding the horse with a mind of its own!

Ford and GM are stuck with dealers.

They will have to go through another bankruptcy or spin off their EVs to be like Tesla.

Ofcourse, attracting talent is a genuine problem they have. Not easy.

 

[raptor5244]

Ford and GM are stuck with dealers.

They will have to go through another bankruptcy or spin off their EVs to be like Tesla.

Ofcourse, attracting talent is a genuine problem they have. Not easy.

The dealer network will be tough to transition but I think they move more to a direct type of model. Not exactly like Tesla, maybe a hybrid, but there are some folks that appreciate having a dealer vs. the 100% online approach.

As for talent, Ford and GM have lots of money to attract talent. These companies already have tons of experience building cars. In fact, I would expect better chassis design, suspension and overall build quality. Where they need to prove themselves is on the transition of the powertrain and software systems and UI. One of the things often touted about EVs is that they are simpler. Less moving parts, maybe few systems to certify. By removing the ICE you remove the need for thousands of subsystems. Exhaust, intake, fuel injection, oil and water pump, etc.

Top Tesla engineer hired by Ford after 12 years with EV industry leader

Ford sees Tesla as its primary competition in EV dominance and goes after another top Tesla engineer.

www.freep.com

General Motors plans 8,000 new tech hires to power EV goals

General Motors Co said on Wednesday it would hire more than 8,000 new technical staff this year, as the U.S. automaker accelerates its development of electric vehicles and software-driven services.

www.reuters.com

 

[Bouba]

Of course it’s not just 100 year old car brands..it’s also hundred year old customers...why did you buy that Buick? Was it because your dad had a Buick...and did he have it because his dad had one? This is why brand loyalty means so much to legacy car manufacturers and why they are so scared to deviate from their core strengths

 

[EVNow]

As for talent, Ford and GM have lots of money to attract talent.

Not for long. Once the parts shortage becomes a thing of the past and / or the demand goes down for ICE, Ford & GM will go bankrupt. SO, yes, they will be able to restructure their dealerships - but attracting engineering talent is another story.

Oh BTW, do GM & Ford have R&D centers in Michigan ... ?

Best engineers will continue to go to Tesla & SpaceX.

The 30 most most attractive US companies for engineering students

Engineering students want to work for innovative tech companies, aerospace companies, and automakers.

www.businessinsider.com

Tesla: 22.0% of engineering students ranked this automobile company among their top five …
SpaceX: 19.9% of engineering students ranked this space company among their top five …
Lockheed Martin: 16.2% of engineering students ranked this aerospace and defense …
Google: 15.1% of engineering students ranked this tech giant among their top five ideal …