Israel/Hamas conflict

[Jigglypuff]

Antisemitic Twitter video...

Tokenization of Jews is disgusting. (moderator edit)

To some extent there is some blowback here. For many years the pro-Israel lobby in the US has been quick to heap criticism on anyone who criticizes Israel's government as being antisemitic. This has leveraged collective guilt among Gentiles about the Holocaust to further Israel's political aims.

...

The idea that criticizing Israel's government for its actions is now interlinked with being antisemitic to such a degree that now some people are embracing that and just being straight up antisemitic because they have issues with the way Israel's government is behaving. What was once a universal taboo has now become a badge of honor among some. So in the US and some other countries we now have the extreme left (newly antisemitic) and extreme right (many of whom have been for 80 years) becoming strange bedfellows on this issue.

This is not at all based in facts. The complaints have always been about double standards against Israel, not about actual criticism. Oh sure, if you dig deep in some far right reddit thread, you'll find support for this theory. However, I know people who have worked for decades in pro-Israel advocacy, and the complaints have always targeted legitimate antisemitism, not criticism of Israel. In fact, those very same advocates have lobbed plenty of criticisms against Israel.

As for embracing antisemitism, that's been a thing for a rather long time. Like thousands of years. The far left has been antisemitic forever. There's always an excuse, always a claimed reason, but it's just mental illness and idiocy. There's no new antisemitism on the far left. It's just the same old. Strange bedfellows? There has never been a significant difference between the far left and far right.

It is completely legitimate for one to be critical of Israel's current government and that alone does not make one antisemitic.

But if the same adamant persons or protestors (far right typically and increasingly far left) spend a lessor amount of time critical of Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah, or their puppet master Iran, spend a lessor amount of time demanding the hostages be freed, do not protest until the ICC issues an arrest warrant for Khomeini and several others of actual genocidal intent and actions, pursue with lessor vigor other more serious moral geopolitical failings, etc, they are in fact antisemitic.

It's the double standards. Again, there are always excuses for the double standards, but they're double standards nonetheless. This is why we Jews look at the college protestors with loathing and disgust. We can smell the antisemitism from across the world.

I have seen the last week about just how much disinformation people are consuming. This poll has been talked about in many places
Majority of Americans wrongly believe US is in recession – and most blame Biden

Jordan Klepper recently did a mini-documentary about how many Americans believe Russian propaganda over the facts.

The misconceptions Israel/Palestine is another area where people are believing garbage over facts. Or only believing one side's facts. Israel has done some things with this war that are not good and a lot of people are latching onto those facts, but they are ignoring the truth about Hamas and the other organizations fighting Israel.

Oh, another comedian who thinks he's a journalist. It is the typical state of humanity to live in ignorance and believe lies. This has always been the case. Short of some benevolent AI overlords, this will always be the case.

The irony of deniers using a survivor to further their cause is tragic

It's just antisemitic. Is antisemitism tragic? It's more loathsome.

 

[Tiger]

(moderator edit)
…I was simply stating facts that people support (bad) actions that have bad optics (we wouldn't be debating this otherwise), because those people supporting those actions have been given bad information for a long time (propaganda, brainwashing). There is nothing antisemitic about this, it is just an observation regardles of ethnics. People simply use antisemitism as a safe word.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754980455529484717

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781951801278845234

 

[iPlug]

...It's the double standards. Again, there are always excuses for the double standards, but they're double standards nonetheless. This is why we Jews look at the college protestors with loathing and disgust. We can smell the antisemitism from across the world...

Double standards are often defined as affording one group more leniency while judging another more harshly for the same behavior. Would argue in the case of Jews/Israel, however, that it is often worse such as in matters related to this thread. Herein Israel is held to a higher standard, thus is judged more harshly for less suspect behavior.

It's just antisemitic. Is antisemitism tragic? It's more loathsome.

It is loathsome but that is too kind a word in these matters where it is an existential issue for Israelis.

 

[Electroman]

It is completely legitimate for one to be critical of Israel's current government and that alone does not make one antisemitic.

But if the same adamant persons or protestors (far right typically and increasingly far left) spend a lessor amount of time critical of Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah, or their puppet master Iran, spend a lessor amount of time demanding the hostages be freed, do not protest until the ICC issues an arrest warrant for Khomeini and several others of actual genocidal intent and actions, pursue with lessor vigor other more serious moral geopolitical failings, etc, they are in fact antisemitic.

+1

I have not seen a single condemnation of the atrocities of Muslim leaders and Muslim population in general over the last many decades - which are rampant in every part of the world - by any leftists, liberals, UN, ICJ, media, yada yada, but are quick to condemn Jews and Hindus who are fighting against these elements with violent ideologies in their own land. Have you seen a single rally in any US university for Christians who were butchered in Armenia ?

Why this double standards?

In fact, if Israel had gotten all the support it deserved after Oct 7th, and if the world, specifically the Muslim world, collectively had come heavily on Hamas and all the Gazans who supported those atrocities, I am sure Israel's response would have been far more tepid. The world at large was simply looking at Israel, "so what are you going to do now?". That is when Israel decided it is time to take this problem head on and finish it once for all.

 

[Jigglypuff]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754980455529484717

So much wrong here.

1. Who the heck is this Burton person? Never heard of them. 36k followers? Probably mostly bots. That's not a star. That's just another nobody, and apparently a terrible nobody criminal.
2. Apparently this Burton got arrested and convicted for committing abuse. Then the richest man in the world attacked her. Where is this "moral cloak that cannot be questioned"? Because somebody else on TikTok defended them? Puhleaze. But hey, maybe it was big in some far left or far right echo chamber of another 36k people, probably mostly bots. Maybe 36 people.
3. Here, the bigotry of Musk is that he ascribes some kind of magical cloak of moral invincibility to trans people. I'm not sure where he gets that from. Most trans people I see are heavily marginalized. The ones I've known personally have all suffered from horrific mental health issues, well beyond gender dysphoria.
4. Here, the abject bigotry of Abjectivist, and those who agree with such drivel sellers, is to ascribe to Israel the same mythical "moral cloak that cannot be questioned". This ties directly into a long, long history of seeing Jews as overly powerful people who control the world.

 

[Just a Reader]

Having been asked to proceed to proceed lightly on Rafah, Israel reliably delivers another massacre of civilians. Israeli extremists are shown attacking aid convoys and destroying deliveries with Israeli military and police standing by. Israeli Politicians being as amiable as Mafia goons.

The more people see of Israel's actions, the less they like it. Even European politcians are starting to run for cover, as they don't want to be tainted by allegations of aiding Israeli war crimes.

Israel gets internationally isolated, with the US currently remaining as its only supporter. Good luck with that in the long term.
Yet the only thing one hears is israeli whining that they were being judged by a "double standard". Yes, they were judged by a "double standard" - one that was very favourable. That's coming to an end.

 

[bhzmark]

Having been asked to proceed to proceed lightly on Rafah, Israel reliably delivers another massacre of civilians. Israeli extremists are shown attacking aid convoys and destroying deliveries with Israeli military and police standing by. Israelin Politicians being as amiable as Mafia goons.
The more people see of Israel's actions, the less they like it. Even European politcians are starting to run for cover, as they don't want to be tainted by allegations of aiding Israeli war crimes.
Israel gets internationally isolated, with the US currently remaining as its only supporter. Good luck with that in the long term.
Yet the only thing one hears is israeli whining that they were being judged by a "double standard". Yes, they were judged by a "double standard" - one that was very favourable. That's coming to an end.

War is messy. People who don’t like the messiness of wars shouldn’t start them.

Meanwhile Israel tries to minimize civilian casualty while still trying to be effective against Hamas who tries to maximize civilian causalities by hiding their weapons, their attack positions, and themselves, among civilians and civilian infrastructure in way only designed to maximize civilian causalities.

Israel Tried to Prevent Civilian Casualties More Than Any Nation in History

Israel has taken more measures to avoid needless civilian harm than virtually any other nation that's fought an urban war.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Bouba]

The definition of anti-Semitism is as follows....all those protesters on the streets caterwauling over every Israeli action...would they go out on the streets to protest against the actions of an Islamic country ?....of course not...but let’s pretend they did....would they then verbally assault or intimidate any Western Muslim person who happened to walk by ?...of course not..because that would go against every ethos in their tiny anti-Semitic head

 

[bhzmark]

Having been asked to proceed to proceed lightly on Rafah, Israel reliably delivers another massacre of civilians.

Facts:

zooming in:

further zooming in:

“It should be noted that Hamas has been operating in this area since October 7,” Hagari says, showing another image showing Hamas rocket launchers 43 meters from the targeted site. “Hamas fired rockets from these launchers at Israel during the massacre on October 7,” Hagari says.

Hagari says the IDF is also looking at “footage, documented by Gazans on the night of the strike, posted on social media, which appeared to show secondary explosions, indicating that there may have been weapons in the area.”

“Signals intelligence intercepted some phone calls that reinforce this concern raising the possibility that weapons stored in a nearby compound caught fire,” he says, before airing one such call in which Gazans discuss the blast.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-vows-full-probe-into-rafah-strike-shows-evidence-it-was-not-in-designated-safe-zone/

 

[Unclepaul]

When Pearl Harbor was sneak attacked by the Japanese, American fought back with terrible vengence. We fought and killed until they were unable to attack anymore. Israel is just doing the same thing. People and countries are allowed to fight back when targeted and attacked. They need to protect their borders and lives of their Citizens.
Similar thing is going on right now in Ukraine as well.

 

[Jigglypuff]

So the camp wasn't directly struck, at least not by Israel, according to reports: Airstrike shrapnel hitting fuel tank likely caused Rafah fire - US official

IDF suspects Hamas artillery caused deadly fire in Rafah, investigation ongoing - I24NEWS

The military clarified that the strike occurred outside the designated “humanitarian zone” in the al-Mawasi region, which is over a kilometer away from the targeted compound

www.i24news.tv

Lots of talk about how munitions stored by Hamas then exploded, which then may have hit a vehicle full of fuel, which may then have started the fire. Israel used 17kg munitions, which are relatively tiny, continuing their extreme efforts to minimize non-combatant casualties.

And yet the antisemites call it a "massacre".

 

[Just a Reader]

Well, perhaps don't suppress another people if you don't want ant to suffer any consequences.
As to Israel's claims and explanations, Israel has been caught blatantly lying so often that no one believes them any more anyway.
It's just one "unfortunate incident" after the next. No one believes in any efforts by Israel to minimise civilian casualties.
Apparently Israel will be happy to be considered as a standard Middle Eastern s****ole country. Fine about that, but why should that place get any western support? It would still be difficult to find any country there that runs something comparable to Israel's apartheid policies, though.

 

[indysurfer]

It would still be difficult to find any country there that runs something comparable to Israel's apartheid policies, though.

Women must not count?

Because virtually every Muslim dominated country (including Gaza and the West Bank) treats women as 2nd class citizens. And we all know how Gazans treat Jews after their disgusting display or rape, murder, torture and kidnapping on 10/7.

How do Christians, Jews and Hindus do in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, Libya and Egypt? Do these non-Muslims have all the same rights and free of religious persecution as their Muslim neighbors?

 

[Just a Reader]

Oh, it's women now? Treating your own women OK doesn't justify the suppression of another people. Additionally, let's not mention the Haredi, right? Really strong on equal rights for women, aren't they? No "to the back of the bus with them"?
As to the permanent complaints about antisemitism, the inflationary use of that complaint by Israel has has really gutted its meaning.

 

[indysurfer]

As to the permanent complaints about "GENOCIDE and APARTHEID", the inflationary use of that complaint by the world's Anti-Semites and radical Islamists has has really gutted its meaning.

FFY -

 

[bhzmark]

Well, perhaps don't suppress another people if you don't want ant to suffer any consequences.
As to Israel's claims and explanations, Israel has been caught blatantly lying so often that no one believes them any more anyway.
It's just one "unfortunate incident" after the next. No one believes in any efforts by Israel to minimise civilian casualties.
Apparently Israel will be happy to be considered as a standard Middle Eastern s****ole country. Fine about that, but why should that place get any western support? It would still be difficult to find any country there that runs something comparable to Israel's apartheid policies, though.

Female muslims, gay muslims, and former Muslims thrive and prosper in Israel, but are “suppressed” (beheaded, treated as property, and thrown from rooftops) in Gaza and West Bank by jihadist theocratic barbarians.

Israel is an island of democracy, pluralism, tolerance, and basic moral decency in the Middle East, surrounded by barbaric neighbors trying to get to Paradise.

In 1948 the UK territories in both British India and current Israel/Jordan were divided up between Muslim majority territory and Muslim minority territory. In each case the Muslim minority territory flourished (Hindu Israel and Jewish Israel) while the Muslim majority territory descended into their current hell holes (Gaza, West Bank, Pakistan, Bangladesh). Jordan is sort of civilized only in proportion to its rejection of Islamists.

 

[Just a Reader]

Female muslims, gay muslims, and former Muslims thrive and prosper in Israel, but are “suppressed” (beheaded, treated as property, and thrown from rooftops) in Gaza and West Bank by jihadist theocratic barbarians.

Israel is an island of democracy, pluralism, tolerance, and basic moral decency in the Middle East, surrounded by barbaric neighbors trying to get to Paradise.

In 1948 the UK territories in both British India and current Israel/Jordan were divided up between Muslim majority territory and Muslim minority territory. In each case the Muslim minority territory flourished (Hindu Israel and Jewish Israel) while the Muslim majority territory descended into their current hell holes (Gaza, West Bank, Pakistan, Bangladesh). Jordan is sort of civilized only in proportion to its rejection of Islamists.

Gay Tel Aviv is less than relevant when it comes to justifying bombing children in Gaza or terrorising farmers in the West Bank. It shows the complete delusions of Israel's supporters to believe that this amounts to any sort of argument.

 

[bhzmark]

Treating your own women OK doesn't justify the suppression of another people.

Gay Tel Aviv is less than relevant when it comes to justifying bombing children in Gaza or terrorising farmers in the West Bank. It shows the complete delusions of Israel's supporters to believe that this amounts to any sort of argument.

You claim that “Israel shouldn’t suppress people” alluding, without any detail, the Israel was suppressing/oppressing Muslims or Palestinians in some way and that justified the Palestinian rape jihad on October 7.

I gave detailed facts that Israel does not suppress/oppress Muslims and certainly not compared to the Palestinians themselves or other Muslim countries.

I’m convinced that the rape jihad supporters that publicly and oh so ignorantly claim that Israel “suppressed” or more commonly “oppressed,” are just mere children who haven’t take any proper history classes or really anything to educate themselves on what they get so emotional about. They show no sign of understanding what has gone on in Middle East history or especially of Islamists. They show no sign of being aware of any facts other than having seen unreliable pictures and data from Hamas.

I hope that they all grow out of it eventually.

 

[Just a Reader]

You claim that “Israel shouldn’t suppress people” alluding, without any detail, the Israel was suppressing/oppressing Muslims or Palestinians in some way and that justified the Palestinian rape jihad on October 7.

I gave detailed facts that Israel does not suppress/oppress Muslims and certainly not compared to the Palestinians themselves or other Muslim countries.

I’m convinced that the rape jihad supporters that publicly and oh so ignorantly claim that Israel “suppressed” or more commonly “oppressed,” are just mere children who haven’t take any proper history classes or really anything to educate themselves on what they get so emotional about. They show no sign of understanding what has gone on in Middle East history or especially of Islamists. They show no sign of being aware of any facts other than having seen unreliable pictures and data from Hamas.

I hope that they all grow out of it eventually.

This pathetic "they don't know argument" has run out of road by now. Israel's brutal occupation policies are out there for all the world to see. Israel's international reputation has been damaged massively and no attempt at propaganda is going to change that.

 

[indysurfer]

Israel's international reputation has been damaged massively and no attempt at propaganda is going to change that.

Israel's "international reputation" has been in the garbage my entire lifetime. Anti-Semitism is the world's oldest mental disease infecting both the dumb and "educated". Throw on Tik Tok and other social media, it is easier than ever to whip up Jew hatred.

Doesn't matter if Israel was making painful concessions proposing 2-State solution peace deals or pulling every last Jew out Gaza, Sinai and Lebanon, or making ridiculous exchanges of 1,000 jihadi war criminals in exchange for the dead bodies of Jews..........the world's Islamists and anti-Semites always had an excuse to justify their Jew hatred and continued terrorist attacks making peace impossible.

10/7 showed Israel that they have absolutely no peace partners in Gaza and the "international community" and they are not going to once again subordinate their people's security to 3rd parties.