Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

It looks like I have LTE enabled

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Definitely something I would pay for them to install, but I wouldn't make a special appointment for this... I'd just tack it on to an annual service or something.

However, if 3G is free and LTE is a monthly fee.... 3G it is. LTE just isn't that much better, for this application, to make a monthly fee worthwhile.
 
I don't understand the wrangling over free upgrade or not. Whatever happens happens.

I expect that at worst, upgrading to LTE baseband card will cost a couple hundred bucks including labor. That's pocket change relative to the cost of a Model S. As far as I know no other car offers network upgrade capabilities!
 
Definitely something I would pay for them to install, but I wouldn't make a special appointment for this... I'd just tack it on to an annual service or something.

However, if 3G is free and LTE is a monthly fee.... 3G it is. LTE just isn't that much better, for this application, to make a monthly fee worthwhile.
I agree. Maybe I'm not using the browser for as much as others are, but I don't have a problem with the speed of map tiles loading or any web activities I do. I don't ever sit in the car browsing the web.
 
My DS has been employed with Tesla for many years and really knows his "stuff". All my questions to other employees were always referred up the chain to him to answer. Sure, it's possible he was wrong in this case, but he supplied specific promises wrt the service plan that I relied on to guide my purchase, even if it was not in the contract.

I know that's what he thought he was talking about, but he was mistaken. He answered your question about the pre-paid service plan with completely incorrect information.

For argument's sake, let's assume, for the moment, that AmpedRealtor is correct, and HankLloydRight's DS was mistaken, and gave HankLloydRight incorect information, in writing, which HankLloydRight then relied upon to make his purchase decision. I don't think Tesla's standard policy should matter at that point. Tesla should stand behind what their employee--an employee doing the job he was hired to do--told a customer asking the employee he was told to seek the information from.

This isn't a situation where a Tesla factory worker happened to make a comment to someone in an email, and that person is expecting Tesla to be bound by it. HankLloydRight was considering a Tesla purchase. He sought answers from trained Tesla reps, who sent him to this particular DS. This DS answered the questions, in writing, in his capacity as a representative of Tesla. Tesla should be bound by what he wrote.
 
In late summer 2014 the resolution of the instrument cluster display increased from 1280x480 to 1920x720. The new display has no extra features or functionality; it's just a better component than the old one.

If this screen hardware change (upgrade) did happen you should add it to the Model S Changes Wiki entry. Interior 2014 changes.... It's another reason to double check your year before ordering a CPO.
 
Not true.

In late summer 2014 the resolution of the instrument cluster display increased from 1280x480 to 1920x720. The new display has no extra features or functionality; it's just a better component than the old one. No older cars have been upgraded, despite attempts by owners to invoke the "hardware upgrade" clause you are referring to.

For the record I would believe @AmpedRealtor (and many others who post on here) over a first-line Tesla employee any day. I strongly urge you to do the same.

Hmm... either this is misinformation or my eyes aren't as keen as they used to be. I didn't notice any resolution difference between my P85 (Nov 2013), my fiance's P85 (March 2014), and my P85D (Dec 2014). I will investigate further once I have them side by side again.
 
The only exception to this was the titanium battery shield, which did add functionality, but that was a serious safety concern that Tesla needed to give to everyone in order to avoid a NHTSA recall.

Tesla added the titanium battery shield as a PR move, not to avoid a recall. NHTSA did not find there was a defect trend in their investigation. Given that finding it's unlikely that Tesla would have been forced into any sort of recall even if they hadn't taken the actions that they did. Of course the court of public opinion was going down an entirely different path.

Minor correction: Everyone was offered the defroster vents at no charge. Not all of us got them (by choice). :)

You know what I meant.

He sought answers from trained Tesla reps, who sent him to this particular DS. This DS answered the questions, in writing, in his capacity as a representative of Tesla. Tesla should be bound by what he wrote.

Contract says otherwise. It flat out says that the only agreement is what's contained in it and anything a Tesla employee says is immaterial. He's not going to get anywhere on this from a legal standpoint. He might get Tesla to do it out of good will if they actually do have a retrofit kit available. But it'd be an exception he wouldn't be posting about it here.

Hmm... either this is misinformation or my eyes aren't as keen as they used to be. I didn't notice any resolution difference between my P85 (Nov 2013), my fiance's P85 (March 2014), and my P85D (Dec 2014). I will investigate further once I have them side by side again.

It's real it happened. There's documented proof around here somewhere with pictures where you can count the pixels in screen elements between the newer vehicles and the older vehicles and the newer vehicles have more pixels. It's not something that's super obvious if you're not looking for it.
 
OK... so looking at the speed test information I got, I'm noticing a few things.

1) The speeds are higher than I'd expect for 3G and the upload speed is quite ridiculously high
2) Web pages do not load very smoothly on the browser - people blame the speed of the 3G connection
3) Latency is extremely high
4) The IP seen by the speed test server is registered to a company in New York state (a little odd, since I'm on the west side of Canada!)

Somewhere I saw a mention in passing of a VPN connection between the car and the Tesla mothership. I think this is almost certainly the case. Meaning, all data to and from the car is encrypted through a tunnel to Tesla's VPN server, before heading out into the Internet from the Tesla gateway/firewall. It might also be compressed, which could explain the speeds (especially upload).

This makes sense if you're trying to keep the car's connection secure, however it's not without problems.

1) The apparent responsiveness of the web browser is not limited only by the 3G connection, but also by the Tesla server and gateway/firewall and all the additional routing jumps along the way.
2) Latency is increased by all the encryption and decryption steps involved and the possible network load at the Tesla server and gateway. Again, this will be seen as an unresponsive browser.

Normally with a VPN, you route only the sensitive data through the encrypted tunnel, and route everything else outside. In this case, sensitive car data would go through the tunnel, but web traffic would not. AT&T, (Rogers in Canada) will be assigning a public IP to the car's connection and the car will also have a private IP seen through the tunnel. The web data would use the public IP and I'll wager the performance of the browser would appear MUCH improved. However, since there would be the potential (emphasize 'potential') that a black hat could find their way into the car via the public IP, the safe thing to do is force ALL data to go through the Tesla gateway. The car would not accept ANY connection other than the VPN itself, thus the security is entrusted to the Tesla gateway and firewall. Which would make sense, in the paranoid world that is the Internet.

I wonder if the Internet radio is also routed this way... probably 'yes'.

I will try a speed test via a wifi network just to see if that NY IP range appears... I suspect it will and that a tunnel is built through the wifi connection as well.

What I think is important in all this is that if I'm right, the system responsiveness (or lack of responsiveness) is determined by the mothership. It's quite likely that the processing power in the car is more than adequate to provide a smooth and snappy experience.

FWIW, I tried ordering a pizza on-line from pizzahut.ca via the car browser the other night and just about gave up in frustration. 400 ms latency is simply unworkable. My phone was better able to manage it. When I tested the phone, I found 65 ms latency when locked to either 4G or LTE. I can't force it to 3G, but don't recall latency being more than 150 ms or so typically when that was the standard technology. Could be wrong, but 400 ms seems unreasonably high for 3G.
 
The VPN only carries traffic destined for Tesla's systems. Media, browsing, nav map tiles etc don't go through it.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand the wrangling over free upgrade or not. Whatever happens happens.

I expect that at worst, upgrading to LTE baseband card will cost a couple hundred bucks including labor. That's pocket change relative to the cost of a Model S. As far as I know no other car offers network upgrade capabilities!

i don't think anyone's wrangling over a free upgrade. The wrangling is over the long-standing myth that service plan holders get free upgrades that others do not.
 
i don't think anyone's wrangling over a free upgrade. The wrangling is over the long-standing myth that service plan holders get free upgrades that others do not.

Tesla haven't been very clear/strict about what classes as service, and what classes as warranty. The vents were one example, the upgraded sun visors are another.

In this case, the upgrade is a very simple one. The 3G daughterboard is right next to the SIM card, and easily accessed - I'll bet I can be swapped in the SC within 15 mins (that's about as long as it takes to swap the SIM). Comparable in effort to vents.

IMO, this is not a warranty item, up to Tesla if they decide it is be a service item.
 
Hmm... either this is misinformation or my eyes aren't as keen as they used to be. I didn't notice any resolution difference between my P85 (Nov 2013), my fiance's P85 (March 2014), and my P85D (Dec 2014). I will investigate further once I have them side by side again.
Come to think of it, I haven't noticed a difference between my Sig P85 (Nov 2012) and my P85D (Nov? 2014). Not that I've been focused on it though.

- - - Updated - - -

It's real it happened. There's documented proof around here somewhere with pictures where you can count the pixels in screen elements between the newer vehicles and the older vehicles and the newer vehicles have more pixels. It's not something that's super obvious if you're not looking for it.
I remember that thread. I also distinctly remember not being convinced by it.
 
Come to think of it, I haven't noticed a difference between my Sig P85 (Nov 2012) and my P85D (Nov? 2014). Not that I've been focused on it though.

I remember that thread. I also distinctly remember not being convinced by it.

If you haven't noticed, don't go looking! Once you've seen the difference you can't unsee it again. I noticed it the moment I got into a loaner car when I took my car back for snagging when it was about 6 weeks old.

Since the previous thread had high resolution photos showing the actual pixels which you could count (the charge bar is 174 px wide on the old screen and 260px wide on the new one), it's hard to see how you would be unconvinced.

Close up photo of charge bar on old display (174px wide) http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56064

Close up photo of charge bar on new display (260px wide) http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56077

Anyway this is considerably off-topic in a thread about LTE, sorry :)
 
If you haven't noticed, don't go looking! Once you've seen the difference you can't unsee it again. I noticed it the moment I got into a loaner car when I took my car back for snagging when it was about 6 weeks old.

Since the previous thread had high resolution photos showing the actual pixels which you could count (the charge bar is 174 px wide on the old screen and 260px wide on the new one), it's hard to see how you would be unconvinced.

Close up photo of charge bar on old display (174px wide) http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56064

Close up photo of charge bar on new display (260px wide) http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56077

Anyway this is considerably off-topic in a thread about LTE, sorry :)

Damn the old one is only 143? SUCKS!
 
If you haven't noticed, don't go looking! Once you've seen the difference you can't unsee it again. I noticed it the moment I got into a loaner car when I took my car back for snagging when it was about 6 weeks old.


Since the previous thread had high resolution photos showing the actual pixels which you could count (the charge bar is 174 px wide on the old screen and 260px wide on the new one), it's hard to see how you would be unconvinced.

Close up photo of charge bar on old display (174px wide) http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56064

Close up photo of charge bar on new display (260px wide) http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56077

Anyway this is considerably off-topic in a thread about LTE, sorry :)

Actually, if you count the number of pixels at the top of the 1 ("one") in each photo they are exactly the same. The two photos have a lightly different focus and sharpness which creates an illusion of a greater difference than there actually is if you count pixels.
 
The cost of the lte SIM card is cheap. The cost of the SIM card swap for the labour is at lease over $1000 as I was told. This is because the access of the SIM card behind the screen is a lot of work.

Just to be clear here, to upgrade 3G to LTE, it's not *just* a SIM card, but the small cellular modem daughterboard needs to be swapped out(see below), and also not necessarily the SIM card -- they could just enable LTE on the same cellular account (SIM) -- but I'd guess they probably would swap out the SIM anyway.


image.jpg