It takes a lot of energy to preheat the battery in the morning, maybe I shouldn’t?

[KenC]

People pre-condition for battery health? I didn't know that it was affected. My 3 is now 5yrs and 4months old, almost 60k miles, and it charges at 250kW when at a V3 Supercharger, so no lithium plating slowing it down. And, SMT shows I've still got 76.3kWh and the full EPA-rated range, as of a week and a half ago:

I rarely pre-condition.

 

[E90alex]

People pre-condition for battery health? I didn't know that it was affected. My 3 is now 5yrs and 4months old, almost 60k miles, and it charges at 250kW when at a V3 Supercharger, so no lithium plating slowing it down. And, SMT shows I've still got 76.3kWh and the full EPA-rated range, as of a week and a half ago:View attachment 1014496
I rarely pre-condition.

It’s just a myth people made up. The car will handle the battery temp accordingly and won’t allow regen or charging if it’s cold enough it could cause damage (eg lithium plating). There is no need to try to manage the battery’s temperature yourself and most of the time you can’t do anything to affect the battery temp anyways.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

People pre-condition for battery health? I didn't know that it was affected. My 3 is now 5yrs and 4months old, almost 60k miles, and it charges at 250kW when at a V3 Supercharger, so no lithium plating slowing it down. And, SMT shows I've still got 76.3kWh and the full EPA-rated range, as of a week and a half ago:View attachment 1014496
I rarely pre-condition.

What was your full pack capacity when new? That is excellent degradation.

 

[DBeckwith]

Preconditioning extends the life of the battery if the car is plugged in because it uses the AC instead of the battery. I think this is what people confuse as "battery health."

 

[tga]

Preconditioning extends the life of the battery if the car is plugged in because it uses the AC instead of the battery. I think this is what people confuse as "battery health."

To clarify, I think you mean "extends to life of the current charge of the battery"? Not the useful lifespan, reduce degradation, etc (because it doesn't do any of that).

 

[tga]

People pre-condition for battery health?

They think they are doing something to help the battery, extend the lifspan, prevent degredation, etc, but they aren't.

I didn't know that it was affected.

It isn't. At best they are enabling a very minimal amount of regen at the start of the drive.

Congrats on winning the "battery degradation lottery"

 

[Birdsfan]

I precondition my battery for two simple reasons; max regen (I wish I could have more personally) and max speed. Why the hell else did I buy the M3P if not for the speed!?

 

[Braumin]

If I am going on a long trip it is worth it. If I am just doing city trips it is 100% not worth the wasted power. I'll precondition a few minutes just to get the cabin warmed up for short city trips. You'd be spending dollars in power to save pennies in regen.

 

[vogz]

To clarify, I think you mean "extends to life of the current charge of the battery"? Not the useful lifespan, reduce degradation, etc (because it doesn't do any of that).

He's not wrong, technically. Using "shore power" to precondition instead of the battery charge itself reduces the daily cycling depth of the battery over time and would indeed reduce degradation. How much it would reduce it might be nominal, but every battery has a max amount of useful cycles before charge capacity will degrade to an unusable level. This might take many more cycles than most of these cars will ever see, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that being plugged in for preconditioning won't reduce degradation.

Jason from Engineering Explained just posted a fantastic video about what degrades a battery last week.

 

[gottagofast]

He's not wrong, technically. Using "shore power" to precondition instead of the battery charge itself reduces the daily cycling depth of the battery over time and would indeed reduce degradation. How much it would reduce it might be nominal, but every battery has a max amount of useful cycles before charge capacity will degrade to an unusable level. This might take many more cycles than most of these cars will ever see, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that being plugged in for preconditioning won't reduce degradation.

Jason from Engineering Explained just posted a fantastic video about what degrades a battery last week.

I heard 1,000 cycles which would be 270k - 300k miles in my performance

Maybe less when you include degradation over the next 10 years so 250k miles maybe for the performance

 

[tga]

He's not wrong, technically. Using "shore power" to precondition instead of the battery charge itself reduces the daily cycling depth of the battery over time and would indeed reduce degradation. How much it would reduce it might be nominal, but every battery has a max amount of useful cycles before charge capacity will degrade to an unusable level. This might take many more cycles than most of these cars will ever see, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that being plugged in for preconditioning won't reduce degradation.

Jason from Engineering Explained just posted a fantastic video about what degrades a battery last week.

Jason has a good channel (I'm already a subscriber). You make a good point, but it assumes the car is going to draw extra power from the battery to heat it, which may or may not be true. Once underway, the battery self-heats from discharge, and there's waste from the motor that can be used to heat the battery.

 

[vogz]

Jason has a good channel (I'm already a subscriber). You make a good point, but it assumes the car is going to draw extra power from the battery to heat it, which may or may not be true. Once underway, the battery self-heats from discharge, and there's waste from the motor that can be used to heat the battery.

Yes, it may, but this thread is specifically about preconditioning BEFORE driving and that's the use mode I was referencing.

 

[tga]

Yes, it may, but this thread is specifically about preconditioning BEFORE driving and that's the use mode I was referencing.

Oh, ok, missed that point. Yes, it's better for the battery to pre-condition the CABIN on shore power vs battery power (less cycling). My point was that pre-conditioning the BATTERY is generally unnecessary and not really doing anything beneficial to the battery.

Preconditioning for 5-10 min to warm the cabin on shore power is good. Waiting another 30 min or so for the battery to warm and the "3 strips of bacon" to go away is mostly a waste of power.

 

[KenC]

What was your full pack capacity when new? That is excellent degradation.

SMT just uses the generic new total of 77.8kWh for the 2018s, so I have no idea what it was when new.

 

[Foxsbiscuits]

I mainly warm the battery because I don't like the unpredictability of "regen braking reduced or unavailable"
I prefer the car to behave in the most consistent way possible with one foot acceleration and braking. It's scary when I expect it to regen brake as I lift off coming to a junction and it doesn't, then I notice the warning.
The exception is if I charge to 100% for a long trip, and then I expect it but it's usually motorway driving so not as noticeable.

 

[tga]

I mainly warm the battery because I don't like the unpredictability of "regen braking reduced or unavailable"
I prefer the car to behave in the most consistent way possible with one foot acceleration and braking. It's scary when I expect it to regen brake as I lift off coming to a junction and it doesn't, then I notice the warning.
The exception is if I charge to 100% for a long trip, and then I expect it but it's usually motorway driving so not as noticeable.

Pedals & steering menu->turn on "Apply brakes when regenerative braking is limited"

Feels just like full regen and works at any temperature or state of charge. Helps remove surface rust from the rotors and prevents rust pitting and long term rotor damage, too.

 

[Foxsbiscuits]

Pedals & steering menu->turn on "Apply brakes when regenerative braking is limited"

Feels just like full regen and works at any temperature or state of charge. Helps remove surface rust from the rotors and prevents rust pitting and long term rotor damage, too.

That's all the options I have.

 

[Krugerrand]

…, but generally, I drive fully-dressed for Winter.

Well, you’re no fun.

 

[Wattsisname]

No, it will heat the battery if it wants to, but the cabin warms quickly enough that 5 min or so of "unnecessary" battery heating isn't a big deal.

Just switch on heated seats and wheel for 5 minutes before departure. Also, defrost if screen is iced up. For reassurance, you can check battery % before and when you drive off.

 

[tga]

View attachment 1014936
That's all the options I have.

Interesting, maybe it's a US/UK thing. Personally, I'd trade blended braking for properly functioning adaptive matrix headlights.

No regen low/standard here, but we get blended braking and off-road assist (but maybe off-road assist is a Y-only thing). I don't have trailer mode, since I don't have a hitch installed.

I'm on 2023.44.30.8