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Jaguar I-Pace

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How many BEVs and ICEs do you have?
Recall this came up yesterday(?) when I said that I have one. And when my reservation for an AWD Model 3 comes up soon, I will have two; unless another manufacturer pulls a rabbit out of their hat and beats Tesla to the punch. Will there be edge cases where it's more convenient to use an ICE? Of course. Are there individual cases where ICE will be far more practical? Of course. But that rarely seems to be your angle. Somebody said up thread - choose the right tool for the job - maybe @Joe F. This seems so right on to me. Drive EV as much as possible. If we're all on the same page, this should be what we're pulling for. This should be common ground always.

Edit: Not sure if you changed your question after I replied - but I just noticed the ICE part of your query. I have two ICE. When the Model 3 comes (soon?), I will have one; which will be replaced once there is an electrified truck or van that can replace it.
 
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Recall this came up yesterday(?) when I said that I have one. And when my reservation for an AWD Model 3 comes up soon, I will have two; unless another manufacturer pulls a rabbit out of their hat and beats Tesla to the punch. Will there be edge cases where it's more convenient to use an ICE? Of course. Are there individual cases where ICE will be far more practical? Of course. But that rarely seems to be your angle. Somebody said up thread - choose the right tool for the job - maybe @Joe F. This seems so right on to me. Drive EV as much as possible. If we're all on the same page, this should be what we're pulling for. This should be common ground always.

I guess my point is, from what I gather from our conversations, you have your cases for ICE and I have mine. I have simply been explaining them to others who have asked and debated my choices. I don't see very much difference there. I am not making a case for ICE, I'm simply explaining why it is hard for me to go all BEV yet.

The world is very different when it is all a theory on a forum. But when I have a business meeting 100-200 km from home, sometimes with a business guest with me that I'm schlepping there and back intra-day/round-trip on a schedule, I'm looking at making it a smooth experience for all. I can't stop at a plug-share, that is not a realistic option at all. Even a Supercharger stop is pushing it if I'm on a schedule dictated by others on ICEs. I respect the time of others too much to impose my car choices on them. And I live in an area where there is winter and winter kills range, so this problem rears its head much sooner than perhaps in some other locales, range-wise.

It is very different when I'm taking a leisurely drive just by myself. I've sat for hours on slow trickle chargers on occasion, without complaint. I am an early adopter by nature, and when it is just me, I often like that. I've enjoyed my BEV adventures, I like exploring different charger models etc. I just can't make that happen all the time - and my family does not like them, so that limits things further to the times when I'm driving alone and not dictated by business schedules (which often means return trips from business, if it is just me and the "day is over"). Hence for roadtrips I often choose an ICE... and so my BEV long-range capabilities are less important, which all this conversation started from. :)

Which brings me back to the I-Pace: All this is both a blessing and a curse for the I-Pace personally. It is a blessing in the sense that I don't need for it to have a Supercharger network or even fast CCS for the I-Pace personally, because obviously it would be a locally driven car, just like my Tesla is much of the time (and I'd still have the Tesla as I'm not looking to replace it). I think this is actually true for a lot of folks, who can get a lot of utility out of a large-battery BEV, even if they never take it long-range. Curse in the sense that if the I-Pace replaces an ICE I'm often taking road-tripping, then it can be a problem, because I still need an ICE for those occasional road-trips - neither the Tesla or the I-Pace would solve that for me yet.

And because of the last point, I find it likely it will still be some time before I will replace an additional ICE with a BEV. Ironically Tesla can help there, though not in the sense that I'd buy a Model 3 instead of an I-Pace. But if the Supercharger network around me mushrooms to the point where the Model X can actually handle my business trips etc., it would make the secondary I-Pace plausible quicker. I don't need two long-range BEVs, one is enough, but I do want all BEVs to have large batteries for local use, because that is just excellent.
 
Edit: Not sure if you changed your question after I replied - but I just noticed the ICE part of your query. I have two ICE. When the Model 3 comes (soon?), I will have one; which will be replaced once there is an electrified truck or van that can replace it.

Nope, I don't think I changed it, but anyway thanks for the answer and clarification.

As said, we both have our reasons to have some ICEs still. I don't think our future outlook is very different at all, perhaps you find my form of ouspoken "subjective realism" not sufficiently dedicated to a BEV future, but I doubt our goals or feelings internally are very different on this.

I like to ponder my thinking out loud, which some find off-putting. I know. I'm trying to improve. :) But in any case it may misrepresent also my intent, if taken the wrong way. I'm not here signalling pro-ICE, even if my reflectiveness might seem so.

I would gladly drive an all BEV fleet, if it met my requirements.
 
Ok, let's get back to the I-Pace?
I have a Roadster a Model S85 and a Renault Zoe. All three great cars.
I am on the list to buy an I-Pace.
I think it could be a great car. I do not think it is a direct competitor to either of the Tesla Models.
With my Model S I have made many long journeys to different countries. I did always want to stop before the battery was empty. So the 90 kWh battery of the I-Pace should be enough for me.
BUT Tesla has a Supercharger Network and Jaguar does not! That is my biggest concern with the I-Pace!
 
Ok, let's get back to the I-Pace?
I have a Roadster a Model S85 and a Renault Zoe. All three great cars.
I am on the list to buy an I-Pace.
I think it could be a great car. I do not think it is a direct competitor to either of the Tesla Models.
With my Model S I have made many long journeys to different countries. I did always want to stop before the battery was empty. So the 90 kWh battery of the I-Pace should be enough for me.
BUT Tesla has a Supercharger Network and Jaguar does not! That is my biggest concern with the I-Pace!

You want to get back to the I-Pace, yet return to the exact same general EV topic of range driving we've been hashing? Welcome. ;)

I think it is obvious I-Pace will not offer anything close to the Supercharger network during its initial time on the market, from both charging speed and network availability perspectives (latter of course dependent on region, in some places CCS of course is a superior network compared to Superchargers, but not in central Europe). Once CCS matures, there will also be faster charging and a larger selection of BEVs available. If that matters, wait for those other options and CCS maturing - or buy a new Tesla, the I-Pace won't be for you.

The I-Pace will obviously be more akin to your Zoe and Roadster on the point of long-distance charging, i.e. not very usable yet. There is a small chance that it will have better-than-50 kW charging later, but even then CCS network will take its time to grow. Should make for a great roundabout closer to home, though!
 
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Take that with a pinch of salt... official statement from Ian Callum has always been 50kw.
 
underpromise and overdeliver

isn't this Elon's way of working? (obviously sometimes its overpromise and underdeliver with him though!)

This wouldn't surprise me at all if it has the ability to go with that sort of charging. There were also rumours a while ago about linking up with commercial charging companies. I suspect this will come out later on.
 
underpromise and overdeliver

isn't this Elon's way of working? (obviously sometimes its overpromise and underdeliver with him though!)

This wouldn't surprise me at all if it has the ability to go with that sort of charging. There were also rumours a while ago about linking up with commercial charging companies. I suspect this will come out later on.

Maybe. Also worth noting that there are no public 150kw CCS chargers (currently) in the UK, and they are pretty rare elsewhere.

So, probably more about expectation management than what the car could technically support.
 
@Adm Thank you for the link. Even if it does, though, the reality on the ground is such a network will take time to grow. But would certainly be a welcome thing for future-proofing and in certain regions.
Come on AR, where did your enthusiasm go? I mean, when the first 150 kW CCS chargers were announced in Europe, some people were like "big deal, there's no car that can accept that charge anyway". And now that Jaguar comes (or may come) with a 150 kW charge capable car, you are like "big deal, there are not enough 150 kW chargers anyway" :)

That's like saying in 2013 that Tesla's Supercharger idea made no sense because there weren't any Superchargers in Europe.
That's not the spirit! You and I used to be both intrigued by how the I-Pace would work out. If the 150 kW charging is true, it's rather great news, to me, now that 150 kW chargers are being deployed.

And if JLR and "the Germans" do a joint effort at installing 150 kW chargers, there could be ten of thousands of them in two years time across Europe (not that I'm counting on that, but it is 'possible'). And that would be great for us Tesla drivers too (if M3 and refreshed MS/MX come with a combined Type2/CCS port, in Europe).
 
@Carl My enthusiasm didn't go anywhere. I see absolutely nothing personally exciting about 150 kW charging. As I said, for me 99% of my EV charging is home or work.

That's what is exciting about it - and has always been about the I-Pace, the greatness of a locally driven large-battery BEV. But neither solve the occasional ICE needs I have, because there aren't enough chargers... and that is a question I must solve somehow.

150 kW makes a lot of sense, I welcome it. But it doesn't change anything immediately for those who are choosing between a Tesla or a Jaguar. The chargers just don't exist yet. Tesla wins. Neither win over ICE yet on long-distance driving convenience.

The fast-charging question was never a deal-braker, nor maker on the I-Pace. I will drive long-distance on a Tesla or on an ICE. The exception, of course, would be that I-Pace suddenly had a vastly superior charging network compared to Tesla and could compete with ICE, but I don't see that happening this side of 2020.
 
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LOL. No. Not for a long time, not with Tesla anyway.



More this, unfortunately.
Ah, yes, If you call 620 miles of range, 1.9 seconds 0-60, and 250+ mph. underdelivering. The truth is some folks are truly never satisfied, depressive styles attract depressive styles. This can serve people well in some ways in their life, but it is often not the best way to enjoy things. I think the results of Tesla speak for themselves.... in the grand scheme of things, pretty much all of our criticisms with tesla are nitpicking. No one likes hearing that they are spoiled and that it is easiest to sit back and judge performance harshly, but this line of thinking reminds me of a soccer franchise or baseball team who has been dominant the past decade, yet the fan base still finds the hiccups annoying.
 
Ah, yes, If you call 620 miles of range, 1.9 seconds 0-60, and 250+ mph. underdelivering.

It hasn't been delivered yet, though. At the moment Roadster in 2020 is the promise. Not the delivery.

Tesla used to have a reputation of underpromise and overdeliver sometime back in 2014 when it came e.g. to performance. Unforunately P85D, AP1, P90DL, AP2 have switched over to overpromise and underdeliver since then. Not to mention Elon's timelines in general.

Even if you have a positive outlook on Elon, you can't really say he underpromises and overdelivers. He may deliver great things with these companies, sure, but usually that has been preceded by great hype and possible overpromises at the very least on schedule - not preceded by underpromise.
 
AR looking at this thread, how come you don't feel comfortable sharing what country you reside in? Forums are always tricky places regarding privacy, but reading this line of thinking reminds me of the whole transparency thing. I don't know if you expect to get criticized based on a stereotype or something.... (I know something about this being from Texas). It's the Anxiety Mystery behind the Ranger that is beffulding.... and no, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole again, but why not say if you live in Scandanavia or Germany or something?

It hasn't been delivered yet, though. At the moment Roadster in 2020 is the promise. Not the delivery.

Tesla used to have a reputation of underpromise and overdeliver sometime back in 2014 when it came e.g. to performance. Unforunately P85D, AP1, P90DL, AP2 have switched over to overpromise and underdeliver since then. Not to mention Elon's timelines in general.

Even if you have a positive outlook on Elon, you can't really say he underpromises and overdelivers. He may deliver great things with these companies, sure, but usually that has been preceded by great hype and possible overpromises at the very least on schedule - not preceded by underpromise.

I was fortunate enough to see the car in person at the semi launch, and I can tell you, whatever they got under the hood (floorboard) is very much a working prototype. Range dropped a minuscule amount despite multiple 1.9 second launches over the entire night. It's not a gimmick and I think that's what people don't understand....Two years from production and it's not built on not yet developed technology. It's real deal Holyfield.