Jaguar I-Pace

[daktari]

Would this actually happen? I don't know if it would or not so serious question.

No, the aero canal is a plastic tube under the bonnet. There are seals where the bonnet meets the front intake, to keep the canal intact. Nothing will enter the froot.
Wonder if or how much that canal helps the aerodynamics?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Source measurements: AutoExpress.
Cars have become way too wide anyway. Has a lot to do with the eye of the beholder (prospective buyer): wider cars have more road presence, and you can't have a car that is smaller (sleeker) than the previous model. For instance, the Porsche 911 has grown almost 12 inches wider than the original from the early 60's. Cars needn't be that wide for road holding purposes, since active suspension can take car of that.

The official specs from the jaguar design studio is:

CAR LENGTH
Total length (mm) 4,682
Wheel base (mm) 2,990

CAR HEIGHT AND WIDTH
Track width front (mm) 1,641
Track width rear (mm) 1,661
Total height (mm) 1,565
Total width with mirrors (mm) 2,139
Total width with folded mirrors (mm) 2,011
Ground clearance fully loaded (mm) 142

Bygg din NEW ALL-ELECTRIC JAGUAR I-PACE

 

[R.S]

You need be one gullible fool to take a Jaguar produced video and conclude the IPace is a faster car than the X. The Model X can seat 7 and tow an IPace behind it. There is zero debate on the versatility of one versus the other.

Next test is a IPace versus a fully loaded Tesla Semi?

IPace is destroyed by the S in both acceleration, range, storage, charging, autonomy and price.

IPace -barely- edges out a Model 3 (and for much more money) if you are content with a car that that you can drive a few towns over and then head back or spend significant time mapping charging stops and much longer breaks while on the road.

And the I-Pace is so stupid, it’s a real stupid head! And it cannot do anything as good as the Tesla and like totally nothing!

It is cheaper, but only because it is ugly and it is not quicker, the Model X was only tired!
And the X is more awesome, how much awesomeness does the Jaguar have? ZERO!

Ahh it’s really great to let your inner 6 year old fanboy out!

 

[Lokolo]

And the I-Pace is so stupid, it’s a real stupid head! And it cannot do anything as good as the Tesla and like totally nothing!

It is cheaper, but only because it is ugly and it is not quicker, the Model X was only tired!
And the X is more awesome, how much awesomeness does the Jaguar have? ZERO!

Ahh it’s really great to let your inner 6 year old fanboy out!

It's ridiculous on this thread. It's basically US Tesla fanboys ripping apart how rubbish the i-pace is.

The fact is, it's not that bad! It's not made to appeal to the US. On the comparison it goes on about size of the car, since when does bigger mean better? I don't care if a Model X is longer or taller than an i-Pace, this doesn't make it better. Yes internal sizes compare them, compare range, compare speed, but having the X 50mm larger than the i-PACE doesn't mean anything as it's very much a personal opinion on it.

Same with style. I actually like it, a lot more so than the X which I find awful. Internally I much prefer is to the 3 (I know a lot of fanboys love how it looks with the floating centre console and thats it), prefer the 3 outside style though. I think the Model S and X are too big for the roads and have numerous times parked next to an S and doubt they'd be able to get in the car as the car parking spaces aren't that wide.

As I stated earlier in this thread, it is clearly not aimed at the US Tesla fanboys. It is aimed at Europeans.

Using information from carsalesbase.com the average market share (over 4 years) for Jaguar in the US has been 0.15%, Tesla has been 0.20%. Jaguar has fallen behind Tesla in the US and I doubt wants to compete much. However we look at Europe. The average for Jaguar market share is 0.35% and Tesla is 0.10%. Jaguar in Europe has doubled their market share over the past 5 years. This is where they want to capitalise.

Dealers in the US are not the same as dealers in Europe and the UK, so for us, not having dealers isn't a positive. If anything its negative. Supercharger network is poor in UK, not sure about the rest of Europe, so again, not a massive disadvantage for Jaguar (although one of their biggest going into EVs).

For me
Jagur
+ Style (over X and S, not 3)
+ Network (service centres, bigger brand in Europe)
+ Size
+ (speculative) Order and Delivery Process

Tesla
+ Range
+ Charging Network
+ (small +, there's not a lot of difference in it) Price

 

[Matias]

Well, I looked at the UK configurators, maybe pricing is different, so see how they compare: I specks the Model S I am somewhat planning on replacing my current one with:
75D, PUP, black premium interior, silver metallic, EAP: 78,150 pound
For 75.8k pounds I can have the SE i-Pace, with adaptive air suspension, 20 inch wheels, the cold weather package, glass roof, four zone climate, home link, power lift gate, full leather seats heated front and rear and some gray color.

I guess that EAP is superior to Jaguars system, though. So MSRP is pretty much the same IMO. Add in some dealer discount and the I-Pace should be cheaper. But that heavily depends on what you value more. Both come with different things standard, so if you nit pick, you can probably always find some comparison in which one car sounds better. That's why I say they are pretty even on MSRP.

But Model S is a much larger car.

 

[daktari]

But Model S is a much larger car.

Outside yes, inside not so much.
https://www.jaguar.co.uk/Images/X590_19MY_MB_SP_GB-EN_V8.pdf._tcm91-498504.pdf

 

[R.S]

But Model S is a much larger car.

Well, it isn't about size, but rather how you use it ;-)

The trunk volume is about 100L smaller, but the wheelbase is larger and I guess you have more headroom in back. Now it depends on what you want in a car, more trunk space, or more rear headroom.

In the end you don't buy a car by inches. Though I understand it is a very American way to think so:

Look at all those inches! Over 220 of them!

 

[12Pack]

But Model S is a much larger car.

The Model S is longer, but actually narrower, making it easier to fit in narrow garages and road. I likely would not be able to fit the I Pace into the space I use for the MS

 

[Mitrovic]

The I-Pace uses Pouch batteries. Do you think that is a good or a bad thing, or it does not matter?

 

[jbcarioca]

The I-Pace uses Pouch batteries. Do you think that is a good or a bad thing, or it does not matter?

Many people know more than do I on this subject. That said ( for practical comparisons the pouch and prismatic cells have similar character:
Lithium-ion Cylindrical Cells Vs. Prismatic Cells
"Cylindrical Advantages And Uses
Cylindrical lithium cells are easy to manufacture and mechanically stable, making them enduringly popular. They’re also very safe – if internal pressure grows too great, most cells are designed to rupture, mitigating safety hazards – and benefit from longevity, an attractive price point and comparatively low watt-per-hour cost, making them an economical choice.

The cylindrical design, however, causes notable space between cells, making space efficiency more challenging. A well-designed cylindrical-type lithium battery takes advantage of the structure’s energy-dense nature, using free space to install thermal regulation solutions.

Small cylindrical cells are generally used in portable technologies such as laptops and medical devices. Large cylindrical cells are popular for electric vehicles, a growing market largely driven by manufacturer Tesla.

Prismatic Advantages And Uses
The prismatic lithium cell’s key advantages lie in its thin profile, lightness and effective use of space; the prismatic cell’s thin, rectangular shape facilitates better layering and gives product designers increased flexibility. Unsurprisingly, prismatic cells are typically found in mobile phones, tablets and other lightweight electronic devices.

While space efficiency makes prismatic cells highly attractive, several disadvantages exist. Prismatic cells are expensive to design and manufacture, in turn making them more expensive for consumers. They die quicker, as thermal management is less effective, and are relatively sensitive to deformation in high-pressure situations. Other drawbacks include a limited number of standardized sizes and an average higher watt-per-hour price."

These generalisations are subject to continuing revision due to rapidly evolving technology. In today's auto context packaging simplicity rules the choice for several auto companies so LG and others are producing more and more pouch cells for auto use. The thermal management systems have been big problems.

Tesla first used 18650 cylinders because they were the standard laptop format at the time so were cheap to buy. The entire Tesla BMS, famously effective, was combined with an unprecedented quality programs that virtually eliminated thermal runaway, the bugaboo for li-ion. Tesla prefers cylindrical format because of easier BMS, greater durability partly because of reduced cell deformation risks.

There are many threads about this, substantial research and documentation from industry groups and NTSB, among others. These are the basic generalisations. However, YMMV. Specific physical design, chemistry, BMS and quality control trump all else. BTW, all this discussed li-ion with liquid electrolyte. Solid state, ultra capacitors and on and on...are distinctly different issues. None of those are currently providing motive force for BEV's so they are not relevant to this discussion.

Finally, LG supplies mostly pouch cells for use in BEV's for everyone from GM to JLR and several others. Toyota and Panasonic are reputed to be working on prismatic cells together.

 

[Lokolo]

The Model S is longer, but actually narrower, making it easier to fit in narrow garages and road. I likely would not be able to fit the I Pace into the space I use for the MS

This is the bit I am disappointed about. The width (mirrors folded), is 2,011mm. The original concept was 1,890mm. The Model S is too wide as it is.

 

[RubberToe]

When will these go on sale in the U.S.? We sat in one at the L.A. Auto show when scouting out the Model 3.

RT

 

[smac]

When will these go on sale in the U.S.? We sat in one at the L.A. Auto show when scouting out the Model 3.

RT

Jaguar should be making an announcement on March 6th. We should see some of the pricing and EPA range stuff clarified then. My guess is deliveries early 2019.

 

[Saghost]

As I stated earlier in this thread, it is clearly not aimed at the US Tesla fanboys. It is aimed at Europeans.

If that's the case, why does it have typical/adequate AC charging for the US, but severely sub-par charging in Europe?

Folks upthread said it won't do three phase at all, and will only charge at 3 kW on the typical 400V 16A connection using one phase, while the US "standard" 240V 32A single phase matches the charger capacity Jaguar announced.

 

[DrComputer]

For those who say this car wasn't made for the American market, Jaguar has been focus group testing this car for at least 5 years in Los Angeles. I have personally been to at least 5 different focus groups over the past several years and have seen them show every different version of it from a Model S like sedan version to a more Model X like SUV version, to showing it with the Jaguar branding or with the Land Rover branding. They have taken their time to try to get it right, but only the sales figures will tell the final story in the end.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I really like it and I think they will sell every one they can make with demand to spare

I can see Jaguar customers finding it easy to switch, but I have some major question marks - and if either existing Jaguar clients ask those questions, or in time we find that Jaguar have implemented them badly, then that does not bode well.

If Jaguar has a runaway-success on their hands their problem will be battery supply.

Apart from whether one likes how it looks, and how practical it is for family size / journey mix etc., my key questions are:

What are the chances of Jaguar (or any other marque) making a really good Version-One of a BEV? In particular the battery management system.

How fast will it taper when charging at Supercharger-equivalent rates? (e.g. I think that the Bolt performs less well than expected)

What will the battery degradation be? (Might be a moot point if it is covered by Warranty, but of course not good news for Company if they have a lot of Warranty repairs ...) (My view on 2018 Leaf that it isn't anything like good enough, particularly for a Version-2)

There are other similar questions e.g. how it performs below -30C - I just think that some of these things are likely to be hard for a Version One to get right.

How will the Wh/mile compare with MS, MX and M3? MS and MX are heavy cars of course ... but even so, I've been really surprised by how frugal the M3 is … so that may make it hard for new marques to match it for energy consumption.

How well will the dealer network adapt to BEV? Plenty of experience of combi ICE-BEV Dealers push-selling ICE, over BEV, because of more money from maintenance etc. Whilst brand-dealers may be "everywhere" they still have to acquire new skills.

Paint me sceptical, but I just cannot see Jaguar, or anyone else for that matter, making a really good Version One. Particularly if they stuff the EV guts into what is basically an ICE. For aerodynamics alone I'm surprised at the grill; and why only space for a miniscule Frunk under the hood?

he charging network is also lacking but should be more available by 2020

Yeah, but by 2020 Tesla will have more too ...

Supercharger network is poor in UK

Depends where you want to go - clearly if the trip you want to make is not well served you are fresh-out-of-luck. But by Comparison try charging in the UK on anything that is NOT Tesla I haven't done it often, but I have not had one good experience ... my negative experiences can be classified under:

Nightmare first-use. Registration, Cash Deposit required, and quite often a phone call. Why can't I just stuff a Credit Card into the machine for a one-time-use?

Slow connect/disconnect. Most of the low-power chargers I use (i.e. ones like Polar) take at least 5 minutes to connect and disconnect - I mean the time I stand looking at my phone whist it does a 1% to 100% count until connection, or disconnection, is complete.

Charger is broken / not operational when you get there ... and often only 1 or 2 stalls anyway, so might be no alternative nearby.

Location of the chargers nowhere near where the Vendor’s map shows them to be. (Solved by using Plugshare’s map instead … Vendor should not expect each EV owner to have to know about such things and put up with all the fiddling about. In the same vein a clear ID on EVERY machine would help. On several occasions I’ve been unable to work out which charger is which. If someone else is plugged in then I can solve it by process of elimination … if not then the adjacent charging-post may be the one that activates … and I have to move the car …

There is just so much that a) Tesla has already solved and b) Tesla’s knowledge-lead makes me very nervous about choosing any other Version-One brand.

But I need Tesla to fix its atrocious back-office …

 

[MXWing]

And the I-Pace is so stupid, it’s a real stupid head! And it cannot do anything as good as the Tesla and like totally nothing!

It is cheaper, but only because it is ugly and it is not quicker, the Model X was only tired!
And the X is more awesome, how much awesomeness does the Jaguar have? ZERO!

Ahh it’s really great to let your inner 6 year old fanboy out!

WOOOOO. High-five! You totally get it!

(At least getting on how to respond with sarcasm instead of facts)

6 year old "wants" things because they are "new, pretty and shiny" without looking at the bigger picture or evaluating opportunity costs. The iPace looking "new, pretty and shiny" doesn't justify throwing away over $90,000 for something that amounts to a secondary toy car that doesn't hold up to the S let alone the X.

The iPace is slower, has less storage, less potential seating capacity than a Model S. Say nothing about Tesla's charging infrastructure and driver assistance.

Go buy whatever you want - not my money. I'm only a 6 year old Economist that just thinks the iPace is a stupid head!

 

[MXWing]

For those who say this car wasn't made for the American market, Jaguar has been focus group testing this car for at least 5 years in Los Angeles. I have personally been to at least 5 different focus groups over the past several years and have seen them show every different version of it from a Model S like sedan version to a more Model X like SUV version, to showing it with the Jaguar branding or with the Land Rover branding. They have taken their time to try to get it right, but only the sales figures will tell the final story in the end.

No one asked "Where's the third row" if they wanted to be more Model X-esque?

 

[R.S]

WOOOOO. High-five! You totally get it!

(At least getting on how to respond with sarcasm instead of facts)

6 year old "wants" things because they are "new, pretty and shiny" without looking at the bigger picture or evaluating opportunity costs. The iPace looking "new, pretty and shiny" doesn't justify throwing away over $90,000 for something that amounts to a secondary toy car that doesn't hold up to the S let alone the X.

The iPace is slower, has less storage, less potential seating capacity than a Model S. Say nothing about Tesla's charging infrastructure and driver assistance.

Go buy whatever you want - not my money. I'm only a 6 year old Economist that just thinks the iPace is a stupid head!

Look, other than you, I have a more differentiated view on both cars. And don't just hate the Jaguar, because it isn't a Tesla.

IMO it looks good, with all upcoming charging stations it seems practical enough for long distance, not just a toy car and it is cheaper, than the S 75D. Trunk is smaller, than the S, but wheelbase is longer and the car is wider, so passenger space, especially rear seat headroom should be better, not sure though.

It also has 480 km WLTP range, while the Model S has 490 km NEDC range, so not sure which one really has more range.

Both are excellent cars, though. And the Model S is still great, especially if you want a lot of trunk space. And IMO the S looks a bit better, but that's just my personal taste.

I do like the Jaguar and I think it will bring even more people to drive electric. And it is the first real Tesla competition, which is why you and others seem to hate it just as much as I hated that stupid Sega Genesis.

 

[daktari]

Agree with @R.S , the Jag will be perfect for those customers that think the S is to low and big, and the X is to big/don't fancy falcon wings. Probably these are new electric car buyers and less existing Tesla owners.

And you will be covering 5-600 km on one charge. Of course I now know after a year of potential SuC which has been barely used, but a newbie, SuC might be THE selling argument.