Just canceled my MX order - here's why

[Need]

Curious that no one has addressed the other concern that the MX and MS have become second fiddle to the M3. For every other brand, the inverse is true -- the larger the purchase, generally the more exclusive the experience. Seems to be the exact inverse here. The DS doesn't return emails, the showroom manager basically lied ("4 weeks on the outside for your build" - we are now past that with no clarity).

I don't think MX and MS became second fiddle to M3, I think they became the same as the M3. I have taken delivery of our MX last year, and back before the rush of M3 deliveries. It wasn't anything special like you would expected from a traditional dealership. People think that a buying $100,000+ car should get extra special treatment than buying a $20,000 car. That's not the case of Tesla. But it was better than when we get the M3 this year. With M3, we had minimum support or contact. It's hard to get hold of anyone even for the easiest change. For example, I wanted to "cancel" a service appointment. I was on hold for like 30 minutes... Oh I tried to email the SC and the email bounced back. That's just crazy.

For Tesla, I think it is like your are paying for the car, not for the service or the people. Before MX, my wife had 2 different BMW X5s. It has been a year since we own the MX and we both agreed that the MX is the best car we ever had... until my M3 of course, but she does not agree with that.

Do I think Tesla's QC, Customer Service are great? No. I think they are pretty horrible. But the cars are amazing.

 

[SSonnentag]

The reliability issues with the X are all detail issues, nothing that affects the drivability of the vehicle. Sure, Tesla needs to up their quality control and attention to details, but true reliability isn't an issue from my experience or what I've been reading.

 

[manitou820]

This is a $120,000 purchase, not a cheap android device.

Why the defenders are willing to look past issues that, for other marques, would be completely unforgivable? Major double standard.

It is extremely clear there are MAJOR inconsistencies in Tesla's manufacturing.

Landrover, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Jaguar, and even Porsche until recently have struggled with reliability. But they all have a large following of enthusiasts who continue to support their brands because they offer a much different experience than vanilla luxury cars brands (Lexus, Acura, BMW, Mercedes).

Reliability is only one aspect of car ownership. Many people are willing to put up with the occasional issue for a car superior in many other ways. If reliability is your main concern, I would buy the Lexus.

 

[john85775]

"Reliability is only one aspect of car ownership."

Do you even hear yourself talking?

Reliability comes first because it translates to time. How much time have you guys spent, in total including travel/hassle/waiting/calling/etc, dealing with quality issues?

 

[gangzoom]

It is extremely clear there are MAJOR inconsistencies in Tesla's manufacturing.

Does Tesla produce 'Lemon' cars too often?? Maybe, probably??

But having owned a X now for 18 months and done 26K in that time I can say as a family car I love ours, and I cannot think if anything else on the market I rather own or drive.

My past car ownership history is mainly Japanese cars, our currents other car is a Lexus. So comparing any issues our X has has the Lexus is like comparing the build quality of IKEA furniture to master carftsman....

HOWEVER the best combustion car I owned pre-Ev was a BMW 335i, which spent almost as much time in the shop getting fixed as on the road, but the reason I loved it so much is because every time I got in it I couldnt help but smile, and at the end of the day for me that is the most important thing a car has to do.

I'm simply staggered by the ability of our X, as quick as the 335i on twisty stuff, room to carry the whole extended family, the most amazing view driving barenone, and even after so many miles I cannot help but smile.

Yes there are more reliable cars, yes there are cheaper cars but if you want a car that makes you happy and smile......am not sure anything else on the road can quite delivery as much as the X, at any price point.

Oh, one of our family cars will be replaced soon, can you guess which one?? I give you a clue personally I don't mind IKEA furniture.

 

[Saghost]

"Reliability is only one aspect of car ownership."

Do you even hear yourself talking?

Reliability comes first because it translates to time. How much time have you guys spent, in total including travel/hassle/waiting/calling/etc, dealing with quality issues?

Less time than I would have spent on oil changes and other routine maintenance on the other cars in the list. Less time than I would have spent standing at a gas pump out in the weather with the other cars, too.

 

[manitou820]

"Reliability is only one aspect of car ownership."

Do you even hear yourself talking?

Reliability comes first because it translates to time. How much time have you guys spent, in total including travel/hassle/waiting/calling/etc, dealing with quality issues?

I currently own the Volvo XC90 which is second to last. I've had the vehicle in the shop once in the two years I've owned it, and that was for it's one year service. I also previously owned a Mini Cooper, which has terrible reliability ratings. I never had a single issue with that car as well.

The consumer reports reliability rating is simply one data point out of many to choose from when buying a new vehicle. There is price, fuel economy, safety, tech, fun to drive, and so on. There are other consumer metrics like brand ranking which Tesla is number one.

So you need to look at the big picture and decide what's important. If reliability is number one on your list, then like I said I would consider the Lexus. For me, I have three vehicles and if one is in the shop occasionally I have other options. So I'm willing to put up with some reliability issues and buy for things like fun to drive, features, tech, etc.

There aren't 1000's of used Model X's being dumped due to frustrated owners. Honestly, they are hard to find on the used market and have much higher resale compared to other vehicles in their class.

 

[Cycle11111]

We own an MX and an M3. We also had/have Mercedes. Toyotas, Fords and Hyundais. The most reliable was my E class Mercedes and the least reliable was our Mercedes SUV and man was it terrible. Toyota and Hyundai were tied more or less and the Ford SUV just seems to miss the shop every 6 months and insists it goes in on top of regular mtce - latest is this week with an overheat due to cracked coolant overflow container and what makes that worse is that is my daughter's car she has at college. MXs are not perfect, but they are definitely above average in my opinion. Mercedes fit is better but the driving experience pales and the MX is just a joy to commute and travel in - I drive Silicon Valley to Tahoe every weekend and I actually enjoy it because of the car. Tesla needs to work on the service and Mtce experience but I do not want to drive gas cars any longer and the Teslas address that problem very well. Next time around I will look at others, but my guess is Tesla will win out again, but I will look with an open mind.

Oh and did I mention the Supercharger network - wow is all I can say.

 

[SSonnentag]

"How much time have you guys spent, in total including travel/hassle/waiting/calling/etc, dealing with quality issues?

Roughly 8 hours for two Teslas over the past year. That's less time that I'd have spent getting oil changes with ICE vehicles, let alone any reliability issues they may have had.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Yes, after reading this thread, I believe a more conventional vehicle would work best for you.

 

[mal_tsla]

"Reliability is only one aspect of car ownership."

Do you even hear yourself talking?

Reliability comes first because it translates to time. How much time have you guys spent, in total including travel/hassle/waiting/calling/etc, dealing with quality issues?

Like two hours over two years.

 

[john85775]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences.

We were early adopters with plug in in the past. Have waited for Tesla to work out the bugs on the MX and there are threads of folks indicating the latest v9 update isn't fully stable. The late Q3 deliveries were reported with spotty build quality. There are several threads on this forum (complete with pictures!) of delivery issues with the MX, stuff that never should have passed a simple visual inspection. Feels hasty.

The CR data indicates not just electronics issues, but leaks and body integrity -- that's BASIC stuff, not user training issues as theorized by some.

 

[rhumbliner]

My problem with CU is that they don’t account for the seriousness of a failure.

For example, my brand new 2001 Audi TT had a faulty fuel gauge that caused me to run out of gas. I was late for work waiting for a tow truck; my Audi dealer had to wait a week for a new sensor, only to discover that wasn’t the problem; another week for the proper part; Audi refused to provide a loaner (but State Farm did); and, you guessed it, the replacement part failed 2 months later. At the time I chalked it up to growing pains for a new model but it was painful and I never did trust it on long drives.

Compare that to my MS losing Driver Assist features every so often. The solution is to exit my car and let it shut down. That’s a 2 minute delay every few months but CU would rank that as equal to my TT problem. Or worse, as a more serious problem since it’s a recurring problem.

 

[mswlogo]

Why cancel now and lose $2500? The Model X holds it's value very well compared to other luxury SUV's, and on top of that if you take delivery before the end of the year and get the tax credit, your car will be worth even more as the tax credit fades out.

Worst case sell the car after six months if your are having that many issues.

I'm trading my wife's Volvo XC90 in for our Model X. So according to consumer reports I'm going from the second least reliable SUV to the least reliable. We've had the Volvo for two years without a single issue.

I'm willing to bet almost all of the Volvo and Model X issues are related to advanced tech. Look at the top two SUV's on your list. Toyota's (Lexus) aren't really known for advanced tech. Every little tech issue gets reported as a problem, but in reality they are usually very minor.

I agree with some of your points. But don't kid yourself the X will be "worth more" as Tax Credit's expire.
It will immediately be worth $20K less before he leaves the parking lot. The higher the price tag the worse the hit.

Your best value in any car is keeping it for as long as you can.

Also I'm sure Tesla will "adjust" things to keep pricing attractive enough as Tax credit's expire. They have tons of leeway to combat that.
Free Supercharging, Free EAP, Free FSD, Free Performance modes. etc. They just have to throw one or two of those out there and suddenly your X is worth less.

 

[john85775]

Why cancel now and lose $2500? The Model X holds it's value very well compared to other luxury SUV's, and on top of that if you take delivery before the end of the year and get the tax credit, your car will be worth even more as the tax credit fades out.

Worst case sell the car after six months if your are having that many issues.

I'm trading my wife's Volvo XC90 in for our Model X. So according to consumer reports I'm going from the second least reliable SUV to the least reliable. We've had the Volvo for two years without a single issue.

I'm willing to bet almost all of the Volvo and Model X issues are related to advanced tech. Look at the top two SUV's on your list. Toyota's (Lexus) aren't really known for advanced tech. Every little tech issue gets reported as a problem, but in reality they are usually very minor.

Come back to this thread a few weeks after you've taken delivery. The median seems to be "the car is AMAZING! But I have these issues with it... but it's AMAZING!"

I don't want those issues.

 

[outie]

You have clearly made your choice. I don’t disagree these cars have their own host of issues, mostly minors but yes they exist, maybe more than other brands, based on my experience. It is also true I spent the most time on Tesla service center than I did with my new BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche in the first couple of months of ownership.

Like I said most issues appear initially and after they get ironed out the car is fine. Issues don’t develop gradually like ICE cars I’ve owned.

It’s all about trade off. I’ve spent time at SC sure, but I no longer need to go to gas station or do oil change. With solar I am net zero on electricity bill with 2 Teslas. I can leave my kids in the car during naps inside the garage with AC blowing. I can leave an aggressive Ferrari in the dust. It’s been fun owning Teslas. My wife and I trade jokes about our Teslas all the time.

 

[SSonnentag]

Vehicles I've Owned and Their Issues

1966 Chevrolet C10 - Maintenance nightmare. Too may issues to list.​

1982 Nissan Sentra MPG - Interior fell apart, but running-wise it was flawless.
1984 Pontiac Fierro - Headlight motor failures, throttle body issues, oil leaks.. Interior fell apart.
1985 Pontiac Fierro - Headlight motor failures, oil leaks, transmission. Interior fell apart.
1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS - AC died, paint quality was terrible. rattled like a wagon over rocks.

1995 Chevrolet S10 ZR2 - Three transmissions in 2 years, otherwise no issues.​

1998 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Clutch issues, panel alignment issues, brake issues.
2000 Dodge Durango SLT - Transmission failure, otherwise no issues.
2001 Dodge Intrepid SE - AC issues, otherwise no issues.
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid - Battery wouldn't hold a charge when parked.
2006 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD - No issues.
2008 Toyota Tacoma SR5 TRD - Awesome truck. Perfect reliability.

2008 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD - No issues.​

2009 Honda Civic EX-L - No issues.
2009 Dodge Charger R/T - No issues.

2011 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD - Cooling system issues. Transmission problems.​

2012 Toyota Prius Three - No issues.
2014 Dodge Durango R/T - No issues.

2013 Chevrolet Volt - No issues.​

2015 Subaru Outback - Eyesight camera failures. Ultrasonic sensor failures. 12V outlet kept blowing fuses (nothing was plugged into it)
2017 Chevrolet Volt - Vacuum line failure. Dumped oil. Good car otherwise.
2017 Tesla Model S 100D - No issues other than some buggy software that gets over-the-air fixes. Nothing that affects reliability.
2018 Tesla Model X 100D - Paint damage during delivery. Window mechanism failure. Same buggy software. No reliability issues.

So my conclusion is that many cars have issues. Tesla's issues are mainly software bugs and detail flaws, rarely anything that affects reliability as transportation.

 

[alcibiades]

December 2016 delivery, and in the last not quite two years (not listed in order and off the top of my head):

1: Broken flashing needed to be replaced around front tire (clips broke off).
2. Broken flashing needed to be replaced by rear tire (clips broke off).
3. Autopilot computer had to be replaced.
4. Windshield had to be replaced.
5. Front struts or something had to be replaced due to vibration during acceleration.
6. Display screen needs to be replaced.
7. Sensors needed to be replaced in FWD.
8. FWD button broke.
9. Seat seam came out.
10. Groaning FWD's needed to be adjusted.
11. Squeaking front windows needed to be adjusted.
12. External trim needed to be reattached as it was falling off.
13. Broken interior piece on driver seat had to be replaced.
14. Wire came loose behind screen and prevented the console top from closing.
15. AC compressor had to be replaced.

Anyway, there might be more, but I'm tired.

 

[jeffro01]

To each their own but we LOVE our X even if it isn't "perfect"... I've seen some silly reasons to cancel before and this ranks right up there with them...

Jeff

 

[jeffro01]

"the occasional reboot"
"other than the adhesive issue with the console display touchscreens"
"besides the minor software issues we all know about"
"the only problem was yellow ring around the 17" display"
"except it does have the "acceleration shudder" known issue"

Cold comfort.

This is a $120,000 purchase, not a cheap android device.

Why the defenders are willing to look past issues that, for other marques, would be completely unforgivable? Major double standard.

It is extremely clear there are MAJOR inconsistencies in Tesla's manufacturing.

As for the "if there are issues (they might well be), they would be taken care of, under warranty" argument, my time is worth more than that.

Curious that no one has addressed the other concern that the MX and MS have become second fiddle to the M3. For every other brand, the inverse is true -- the larger the purchase, generally the more exclusive the experience. Seems to be the exact inverse here. The DS doesn't return emails, the showroom manager basically lied ("4 weeks on the outside for your build" - we are now past that with no clarity).

Have you ever even driven one? Drive one... Then you'll understand. There simply isn't anything like it out there and you're so grossly overreacting to CR and your "issues" list that it's comical at this point...

The MX hasn't become second fiddle at all, you just have to understand the financial position the company is in as it pertains to it's stock price and wall street expectations.

From where I sit, it certainly sounds like you have other reasons why you want out and are reaching very, very hard to justify your decision using other metrics rather than be forthcoming with the community as to your real reason(s)...

Jeff