Great movie but more and more Tesla starts to reflect traditional automakers. They aren't really the shiny altruistic company we once knew anymore.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Leaked email - plans for 6000/wk by June
- Thread starter nvx1977
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Elon Musk Model 3 Tesla Inc.
Just imagine if Tesla only set a goal of 5k M3s last year and 50k this year, we would all be praising how amazing ramping up and even working hard to beat that estimate. All you naysayers are complaining only because the goals are unrealistically lofty.
The product ramp is happening is perfectly fine, keeping in mind that this is an EV that has a complex battery system in it, that requires cells/batteries to be manufactured at a high rate with the required automotive quality that has never been done before at that rate. In fact the ramp is happening better than any other company has done in the past.
The problem is not the ramp. They are making cars at a high rate perfectly fine. It is the initial unreasonable 100k and 500k goals he set himself.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I actually don't agree that the Model 3 reflects traditional automakers. No traditional automakers is putting Defense of Department grade cruise missile circuit boards into their "entry level" "C" segment vehicle and as stated in the video below, traditional automakers "are in peril", if they don't look at how disruptive the electronic element of the Model 3 is. Also the new battery and "skateboard" or Sled architecture in the Model 3 is more, Terminator technology with tolerances in the new 2170 battery with balancing @ 0.2 milliamps. This is highly advanced compared to the competition and the energy density is off the chart. The "body in white" isn't even like a traditional automaker and is massively over built and complex compared to a Honda or Toyota. This is the area for improvement for Tesla in the future to reduce weight and extend range.
Comparing the low volume Model S and X to the Model 3 "...This one! This one! is totally different and thats what I say, anybody that ignores this car , anybody thats in the car industry who ignores this car does so at their own peril. This is big stuff, this in not... this is not inching up, this is revolutionary verses evolutionary was the old stuff, this is revolutionary and everybody else is sitting their twiddling their thumbs"
36:14 minutes in to get the summary. The down side is Tesla ignored the auto industry best practices for the body in white which is the peril they need to resolve. If they had gotten both right Toyota would have been terrified.
38: 21 minutes Magna (professional design manufacture firm) + Tesla = "If they had would have done that, if they had done that, they would have hit every target, even Toyota would have been crapping their pants"
Grab and beer and watch this to understand how advanced this car is
Comparing the low volume Model S and X to the Model 3 "...This one! This one! is totally different and thats what I say, anybody that ignores this car , anybody thats in the car industry who ignores this car does so at their own peril. This is big stuff, this in not... this is not inching up, this is revolutionary verses evolutionary was the old stuff, this is revolutionary and everybody else is sitting their twiddling their thumbs"
36:14 minutes in to get the summary. The down side is Tesla ignored the auto industry best practices for the body in white which is the peril they need to resolve. If they had gotten both right Toyota would have been terrified.
38: 21 minutes Magna (professional design manufacture firm) + Tesla = "If they had would have done that, if they had done that, they would have hit every target, even Toyota would have been crapping their pants"
Grab and beer and watch this to understand how advanced this car is
Last edited:
bambam4171
Member
Do we know know if the board has been made by Tesla or if it is custom made by Nvidia? I seem to remember that the whole board was Nvidia Design (PX2) maybe they just added some custom Tesla stuff to it.
PCB is custom designed by Tesla. There's Tesla logo in the back
bambam4171
Member
When you order boards from any OEM you can have Mickey Mouse on it if you like. This does not mean a thing. Dell/HPE/IBM, not one of them does the design for Standard Server boards themselves, but all of them have of course their logo on the board.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
The AP2 board had sockets for MobileEye and NVidia chips to coexist. Now it may be that Nvidia did the board layout but even if they did it is a Tesla only part. No one outside of Tesla ever used it nor will they ever use it.
It may be the AP 2.5 board gets rid of the empty MobileEye socket, I don't know for sure if it is still there or not.
Either way the Tesla boards are Tesla only boards no matter who produced them. Tesla does have a chip engineering team and they do make custom PCBs. Getting down to exactly who pays who for what is beyond what we can prove in this thread but it sure isn't micky mouse/Dell/HP logos type BS.
bambam4171
Member
Its still likely an OEM board even if it is made to your specs. Now I don't say Tesla could not make something like this I just say be careful before falling on your knees in awe because it is superbly made. Nvidia knows a thing or two about making good boards. Don't take my word, just look for yourself Autonomous Car Development Platform from NVIDIA DRIVE PX2
bambam4171
Member
The question was who created the board that Munroe loved so much and I think before we attribute it to Tesla we would need more than just a logo on the board. Nvidia likely has a thousand times more experience in board design than Tesla. They have been shipping thousands of PCBs for every board in a Tesla.
I think Munro is wrong with his statement that the 2170 batteries are 5,600 Ah, "we believe even 6,000". The 2170 are about 30% bigger and hold about 50% more power than the 3,400 Ah 18650 batteries, ...afaik
See also:
Dissecting Tesla Model 3's 2170 lithium ion battery cell, what's inside?
See also:
Dissecting Tesla Model 3's 2170 lithium ion battery cell, what's inside?
Last edited:
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure who makes the board really matters, what matters is this is wildly advanced technology for any car, especially their entry level machine. Add in the high density battery design and the sled/skateboard, and put this in the hands of a legacy car manufacturer and they could launch millions of these with numerous designs (Toyota RAV4, Camry, Honda Ridgeline, etc etc). Common parts among them all, but the body in white that rides on top could be anything in the hands of mass production facility.
I hope Tesla works out the bugs and gets a better at BIW design on the truck and CUV. Frankly they should hire this guy to come in and help them for the next vehicle, maybe call Siemens and get this too.
Last edited:
PCB layout is highly dictated by the timing specifications provided by the chip manufacturer. Part density/ feature style is determined by the manufacturing capabilities, allowable cost, and yield. With the proper rules file and a high end version of layout software (to handle the layer count and wide timing matched data/address busses) any design house could make the board.
I would guess it was outsourced by Tesla to a design firm. That would give them the leverage of experience along with being able to partition the design to multiple people. Tesla is hiring for internal layout also, so it's possible they have enough people in house to get it done. Also possible they contracted the same people that do SpaceX's boards.
Nvidia doesn't customize anything anymore since the original Xbox/PS3 due to low margin. That's why AMD has been winning custom design such as Xbox One and PS4. NVIDIA release a reference design and you either take it as is or design your own PCB.
bambam4171
Member
Interesting, didn't knew that. Thanks for sharing. Still does not tell then if it was a Tesla design or an Nvidia one.
Regarding my post on suppliers and supplier relations at Leaked email - plans for 6000/wk by June, I stumbled across this quote from Experts say Tesla has repeated car industry mistakes from the 1980s.
(FWIW, I do work in the software industry and have been in it for my entire professional career after graduating from college.)
Last edited:
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Right,
The unstated question here is whether Tesla has something other manufacturers do not, cannot make and cannot buy.
Thanks a lot for linking this video.
This really puts what we`ve seen so far in perspective.
However I´m not sure "advanced" is the word I´d choose here....
What i take from that video is that the M3 basically possesses class leading electronic/battery systems which are heavily weighed down by a car build around it that ignores a 100 years of actual car building experience and suffers from a lot of "inventions just for inventions sake" and/or missing know-how in the engineering department.
Sounds like they bastardized a spaceship with a , as Murro called it, a KIA from the 90s.
Well the upside is that they got half the car right already and now that their dreadnought-fantasies have come to a screeching halt they can start hiring experts that actually know how to build a car to get the other half right.
Last edited:
It's not the same as the reference PX2, thus not a Nvidia design.
Jim Keller has been with Tesla since 2016, he's more than capable of doing just some PCB layout.
Last edited:
Similar threads
