LED Headlight RetroFit on Older Cars

[TSLA Pilot]

I wouldn't bother because I know what you're talking about. Before the S I had a 535d, M5, 535i and a 550i. I love my BMWs. You're expecting the primary beam of light to move as it did on the BMWs. For those not familiar, the BMW projector was able to move left to right in conjunction with the steering wheel. So when you were on a sweeping turn the lights would be pointing around the turn versus straight ahead of you. The LED lights on the Model S are not like this at all.

On the S the adaptive lights are 3 bowls of LEDs in each headlight module that come on with steering wheel position but at best could be considered low speed cornering lights. They do not bend around a curve like the BMWs. Honestly, calling these lights adaptive in the sense that people are accustomed to is a bit disingenuous because anyone coming from a car with true adaptive lights is going to be really disappointed in the Tesla's adaptive LEDs.

So you might be thinking "well hey! At least the LEDs are brighter than the HIDs!". They are a higher color temperature so they appear to be brighter but in practice they are as bad an LED headlight as I've seen. In fact, they're probably the worst. Much like Tesla used a really sub-par HID projector, it appears they mailed it in with the LED lights as well. The beam is very concentrated and full of hot spots. The LED lights in my 535d bathed the road in a white blanket of light. They were amazing. The LED lights on the facelift S have a comically bad beam pattern. A clean cut-off for sure, but below that it's a mess. Fortunately, or unfortunately for Tesla, the HIDs are also terrible so the LEDs do represent a minor upgrade in functionality but the majority of what you're getting is aesthetics. The luminescent DRLs and the overall look of the lights are why you're upgrading.

Disappointing because it appears the X is better in this respect.

Here's what I'd LOVE from a company that can make a car that drives itself. My BMW had LEDs that would split their beam or turn part of it off so that it could be on high beam 70 - 80% of the time. So if I'm on the expressway I have my high beams on and when a car appears in front of me they don't shut off. They simply split. So the left light aims left and the right aims right and they made a tunnel of darkness that would follow the car in front of me. If that car entered a sweeping turn my headlights would move so that tunnel of darkness stayed with it. Once I got close enough to that car where it couldn't make that tunnel any more it would shut off the high beams but keep the right high beam on and pointed up to illuminate road signs. On a two lane highway with approaching traffic it would split the beam around the approaching car until it got close enough that only the left high beam shut off for a brief moment until the car passed and then popped right back on. This feature alone regularly tempts me to look into another 535. You have to have the car coded to do this in the US since DOT hasn't approved it but the tech is on all LED equipped 5 series with the drivers assistance plus package. Here's a video that shows what I'm talking about.

This video does a good job of showing what we should aspire to.

Excellent video, and concur that Tesla really seems to have "phoned it in" with some things, and this is one of them. I think it's a question of priorities and this one doesn't get close to the top because of geography. In Germany, they have long, dark winters, hence the great headlights on many BMW's (but the so-so AC). On the other hand, it must never get dark in CA, hence the crappy interior lighting and lousy headlights on a Tesla. (I guess Elon spends very little time in a really hot climate too, hence the atrocious NVH when the AC is working hard . . . .)

Thanks for the great info on this, and here's another plus for real adaptive headlights--LESS ACCIDENTS and lower insurance claims!

Source:

Adaptive headlights improve visibility

Earlier research by HLDI showed that vehicles equipped with optional adaptive headlights had lower rates of insurance claims under most coverage types than the same vehicles without the technology (see Status Report special issue: crash avoidance, July 3, 2012). The benefits were greater under property damage liability insurance, which covers damage to someone else's vehicle or other property, than they were for collision insurance, which covers damage to the insured vehicle. Injury claim rates also were lower.

"We already had evidence that adaptive headlights are reducing crash damage and injuries," says David Zuby, IIHS executive vice president and chief research officer. "This study fills in some of the gaps in our knowledge about how they help."

Come on Elon, this is old news. We all know your plate is pretty full, but step it up here as good headlights matter! If you were going to spend the money for a re-design anyway, why not hit it out of the park with a really big improvement?

 

[Da0ne]

im interested and would pay to have those installed

 

[Mike K]

There have been a lot of post's of people complaining about DRL on the faceliftet model. Problems that where solved via FW.
So you pretty much found out youself that a easy retrofit was not possible because the LED light are controlled via CAN bus data.
But thank for trying - somebody has to try it ;-) Hopefull Tesla will offer this upgrade. But historically Tesla has no interest in such "aftermarked" sales - I wounder why ? (I could use a power liftgate on my mid '15 model without premium package)

I wouldn't go that far. They do retrofit the back seats and for awhile they would retrofit the parking sensors and folding mirrors and they do still retrofit the console which is now just an OE part that they're putting in an older car. That combined with the fact that my SA thought he heard some chatter that they would be retrofitting them, gives me some home. Theoretically it would be one of the easier retrofits.

My guess would be three-fold:
1. The cost of engineering a robust upgrade, then training the techs to perform the upgrade and then how to service cars with the upgrade. Lots of cost, possibly no net return on investment.
2. The opportunity cost - those engineers working on #1 could be working on Model 3 or future cars - Tesla doesn't have unlimited engineering resources
3. SC are busy servicing current customers. Adding retrofit customers to the mix would just make queues longer.

Yes, these are the arguments against for sure. They are way overloaded with work. They will do the console though and the console appears to be a decent amount of work. So that gives me some hope.

Excellent video, and concur that Tesla really seems to have "phoned it in" with some things, and this is one of them. I think it's a question of priorities and this one doesn't get close to the top because of geography. In Germany, they have long, dark winters, hence the great headlights on many BMW's (but the so-so AC). On the other hand, it must never get dark in CA, hence the crappy interior lighting and lousy headlights on a Tesla. (I guess Elon spends very little time in a really hot climate too, hence the atrocious NVH when the AC is working hard . . . .)

I'm not sure how old your car is but I think a lot of the NVH has been addressed. My early 2013 is the same way. On really hot days the compressor makes quite a racket, not enough to be bothersome but enough that you know it's running. The newer cars (2014+) seem to be much quieter.

I don't get the headlights though. I never have. I can forgive the missing features from other flagship cars because the Model S excels in other ways but headlights are one of those basic things that you have to get right and even if you're not going to use the latest technology, at least use a high quality projector. I really thought the LED lights would be their chance to right that wrong. Apparently no though. They look gorgeous though and they are good enough.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I wouldn't go that far. They do retrofit the back seats and for awhile they would retrofit the parking sensors and folding mirrors and they do still retrofit the console which is now just an OE part that they're putting in an older car. That combined with the fact that my SA thought he heard some chatter that they would be retrofitting them, gives me some home. Theoretically it would be one of the easier retrofits.



Yes, these are the arguments against for sure. They are way overloaded with work. They will do the console though and the console appears to be a decent amount of work. So that gives me some hope.



I'm not sure how old your car is but I think a lot of the NVH has been addressed. My early 2013 is the same way. On really hot days the compressor makes quite a racket, not enough to be bothersome but enough that you know it's running. The newer cars (2014+) seem to be much quieter.

I don't get the headlights though. I never have. I can forgive the missing features from other flagship cars because the Model S excels in other ways but headlights are one of those basic things that you have to get right and even if you're not going to use the latest technology, at least use a high quality projector. I really thought the LED lights would be their chance to right that wrong. Apparently no though. They look gorgeous though and they are good enough.

HVAC NVH issue is on both of our MS's, but I drive our '15 P90DL most often and it's surprising that after all these years of production Tesla hasn't gotten around to addressing this issue. Exasperating, really, to feel the steering wheel vibrate at high HVAC loads as even cheap rental cars don't do that . . . but, again, I just don't think it's getting any vis as Elon lives in SoCal where he just doesn't experience it.

Off topic, but anyone else with a '15 MS notice unsat NVH under high HVAC loading?

 

[jerjozwik]

mike k, your car is a 2013? i wonder if a newer model s would have an easier time retrofitting. constant improvement and all.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Yet another sign that Tesla is focusing too many resources on other distractions and not enough to improving the actual vehicle. At this price point, the headlights should be a step ABOVE what BMW and others provide. Bowl reflectors, are they kidding? Post facelift Model S doesn't even have height adjustable seat belts or the nicer seats from Model X. Tesla is really skimping here where they should be splurging. There is really nothing in Model S that is superior to any other vehicle in its price range except for its drivetrain, and Tesla has been sitting on those laurels for four years.

Tesla needs to up its game here, in my humble opinion. To have Tesla owners say the headlights are sub-par is just sad. As others have said, these are things Tesla needs to get right. When I took delivery of my 2013 Model S, I made service replace the headlights twice because they had fingerprints on the inside of the projector lenses. That's really sloppy. My 20 year old Acura Integra had cleaner projector lenses. TWENTY YEARS AGO!

But I guess Tesla thinks it's more important to spend $2-$3B to buy Solar City instead of investing a fraction of that into making a better car. At some point the chickens will come home to roost.

 

[Mike K]

HVAC NVH issue is on both of our MS's, but I drive our '15 P90DL most often and it's surprising that after all these years of production Tesla hasn't gotten around to addressing this issue. Exasperating, really, to feel the steering wheel vibrate at high HVAC loads as even cheap rental cars don't do that . . . but, again, I just don't think it's getting any vis as Elon lives in SoCal where he just doesn't experience it.

I live in SoCal too, in the same hills Elon lives in. It gets HOT here! Everyone thinks all of SoCal is this temperate climate but Los Angeles has 4 or 5 different microclimates. Where I'm at is up in the hills and it's generally 5 - 10 degrees cooler here but if I drive literally 5 minutes down the hill to the valley it's 10 degrees hotter and if I drive down to the basin it's generally a few degrees hotter. It's been steadily high 90's and low 100's in the valley which is enough to kick my AC into overdrive when it's initially trying to cool down the car. I know what you're talking about. I guess for me it doesn't happen enough to bother me. I didn't notice it at all in the P90D loaner I had which is why I assumed they had addressed it. I believe they are using a different AC compressor in the newer cars.

mike k, your car is a 2013? i wonder if a newer model s would have an easier time retrofitting. constant improvement and all.

Not likely as I believe all the HID headlights have the same part number through the years and that would be impossible if they had changes the means of communication down the line. There's really no advantage to them doing so either. That's the kind of change you wait until you need to, to make.

 

[Mike K]

Yet another sign that Tesla is focusing too many resources on other distractions and not enough to improving the actual vehicle. At this price point, the headlights should be a step ABOVE what BMW and others provide. Bowl reflectors, are they kidding?

Other criticism aside, let me address the bowl reflectors as I've seen a few people reference them as if they are inferior. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using bowl reflectors. BMW's LED lights use them as well and they are amazing. The problem is using cheap bowl reflectors. That's an issue. This is the same issue they had with the HIDs. There's nothing inherently wrong with projectors but Tesla used cheap projectors and as a result, light output was mediocre to just about everyone that came from another car with HIDs.

I don't think they need to be better even. They just need to be good. These aren't really good in my opinion.

Post facelift Model S doesn't even have height adjustable seat belts or the nicer seats from Model X. Tesla is really skimping here where they should be splurging. There is really nothing in Model S that is superior to any other vehicle in its price range except for its drivetrain, and Tesla has been sitting on those laurels for four years.

This is tough to argue with. Most of this stuff doesn't bother me but I do have friends that are waiting on the sidelines for must-have features. I have one business associate ready to buy the moment they release vented seats. He won't buy it without that and thinks it's silly that the car doesn't have it.

But I guess Tesla thinks it's more important to spend $2-$3B to buy Solar City instead of investing a fraction of that into making a better car.

I get your anger. I'm just not sure I'd go that far. The car, even with it's shortcomings, is leaps and bounds better than comparable vehicles. It's easy to forget just how good the Model S is and then remember that it's literally their first car. And as an early adopter I realize that the money must go to the Model 3 for now and so we suffer with some of these small, seemingly trivial issues. For me the headlights don't take much away from the car. I wish they were better but in the grand scheme of things the car is so great that the fact that I can sit and bitch about it's headlights and that's literally the worst complaint I have... Well, put that in perspective.

 

[SevenWithaT]

BTW, Is the LED headlamp of the same dimensions as the classic headlamp?

 

[Mike K]

Identical yes. It will pop right in. The physical plug shape is even the same.

 

[Lightmatrix]

Technicalities aside, I would spring for the LED as well if it were available as a retrofit.

 

[TampaRich]

Same here. I'd pay for the upgrade.

 

[studiojon]

Likewise. I would love to retrofit these

 

[Adrian]

Count me in.

 

[DustinDep]

I would also be interested in this upgrade!! $$$standing by

 

[Mike K]

With the aid of someone with a lot more experience than I, we are making headway. So that's good. It will likely be a month or so before there's anything to report though.

 

[DustinDep]

With the aid of someone with a lot more experience than I, we are making headway. So that's good. It will likely be a month or so before there's anything to report though.

Cant wait!!!

 

[Adrian]

Can you throw the new ventilated Performance seat into the retrofit-mix?

 

[Mike K]

Oh man. I missed that. Are they finally putting the vented seats in the facelift cars?

 

[Adrian]

Oh man. I missed that. Are they finally putting the vented seats in the facelift cars?

Yep!