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Let's Speculate - What will happen if FSD isn't possible on cars sold with that option?
- Thread starter MTOman
- Start date
Exactly. They are bold enough to claim that Tesla's can only be rented on the Tesla ride-sharing platform when they are autonomously picking up paying rides while you are sleeping or at work. These outlandish claims plus the FSD video will hang them.
You really believe this? I think this is pure fantasy....
Nowhere do they even hint about cars automatically picking out anybody.
The "Car sharing" networks of today are basically cars randomly parked elsewhere and you just get their location, somehow get there and then drive away in that car.
In all seriousness, the context of the discussion in the product description is Full Self-Driving and comes immediately after explanation of picking you up. Technologically, your identity is unimportant and the ability to go to a location set by an app is trivial (if the car can Full Self-Drive). If it is not what they meant, then there is clear duplicity. It'll be litigated if/when they try to weasel out.
It's one thing to return to exactly same spot where the car dropped you off (car knows it's possible to get there and possibly even knows how and where exactly to meet you). It is totally another to go to some other place. What if there's no road that leads to that place, what if it's a house on several streets, which side does the car go to? Many other potential problems.
The other manufacturers seem to have a bead on this problem. I guess I'm not quite seeing the source of your strong worry.
Drone Flyer
Active Member
Lol! FSD will be at least 10 years away! This isn't a Tesla thing, its government bureaucracy. When it comes into fruition, we will all have new Teslas. The current ones will be outdated and beyond their life cycle when and (if) FSD becomes a reality.FSD will happen within a year so no worries. AP1 was already a technological marvel with far less hardware. Yes, there have been untimely setbacks with AP2 but they're back on track and OTA updates are happening. Believe me when I say we'll all be whining about some other promised feature before long: "Elon promised my car would levitate 3' when Hover Mode is engaged and it only levitates 2'"
So the government is what is preventing Tesla from releasing FSD? Lol.
Well, I always like to say one Tesla year is equal to one decade of advancement for other car companies...so looking at it that way I'd tend to agree. But I don't t think HW2 hardware will become "out of date". I'm using antiquated HW1 hardware and it's still going to be awesome for highway road tripping for as long as the car exists. Tesla has barely begun to unleash the power of HW2...just wait!(about a year)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Both yourself and @LosAltosChuck are saying the same thing about receptive users. L3 still can require a user to intervene at a moment's notice. If you have headphones on and are watching a movie, it's not guaranteed that you are still receptive to a situation where you need to intervene. Likewise, you can't be sleeping.
no we are not. in L3 you don't monitor the car, ads, or the road. you can watch movies, text, email, browse, videos, phone, games.
LosAltosChuck is saying otherwise.
You are however need to be aware (not sleeping) and to notice apparent VEHICLE FAILURE.
In a vehicle failure you will know that there is a vehicle failure. its obvious. you will hear and feel a tire blowout or a tire rod pop out no matter what you are doing other than maybe sleeping.
but that doesn't mean the vehicle won't alert you or that the ADS suddenly turns off if you had a tire blowout or tire rod popped out. just that you need to be awake (receptive) and not sleeping.
EXAMPLE 3: A vehicle with an engaged level 3 ADS experiences a broken tie rod, which causes the vehicle to handle very poorly giving the fallback-ready user ample kinesthetic feedback indicating a vehicle malfunction necessitating intervention. The fallback-ready user responds by resuming the DDT, turning on the hazard lamps, and pulling the vehicle onto the closest road shoulder, thereby achieving a minimal risk condition
This is why you can't SLEEP in a L3.
The SAE makes a clear distinction.
There is no saying the same thing. There is no agree to disagree.
NOTE 2: Recognizing requests to intervene issued by a driving automation system is not a form of monitoring driving automation system performance, but rather a form of receptivity.
NOTE 3: At levels 1-2, the driver monitors the driving automation system’s performance .
NOTE 4: At higher levels of driving automation (levels 3-5), the ADS monitors its own performance of the complete DDT.
Receptive User = Not Sleeping.
SAE defines it as:
3.18 RECEPTIVITY (OF THE USER) An aspect of consciousness characterized by a person’s ability to reliably and appropriately focus his/her attention in response to a stimulus.
- - The driver state or condition of being receptive to alerts or other indicators of a DDT performance-relevant system failure, as assumed in level 3, is not a form of monitoring. The difference between receptivity and monitoring is best illustrated by example: A person who becomes aware of a fire alarm or a telephone ringing may not necessarily have been monitoring the fire alarm or the telephone. Likewise, a user who becomes aware of a trailer hitch falling off may not necessarily have been monitoring the trailer hitch.
- - By contrast, a driver in a vehicle with an active level 1 ACC system is expected to monitor the driving environment and the ACC performance and otherwise not to wait for an alert to draw his/her attention to a situation requiring a response.
AUTOMATED DRIVING SYSTEM (ADS) The hardware and software that are collectively capable of performing the entire DDT on a sustained basis, regardless of whether it is limited to a specific operational design domain (ODD); this term is used specifically to describe a level 3, 4, or 5 driving automation system.
ADS (while not engaged):
• Permits engagement only within its ODD ADS (while engaged):
• Performs the entire DDT
• Determines whether ODD limits are about to be exceeded and, if so, issues a timely request to intervene to the DDT fallback-ready user • Determines whether there is a DDT performance-relevant system failure of the ADS and, if so, issues a timely request to intervene to the DDT fallback-ready user
• Disengages an appropriate time after issuing a request to intervene
• Disengages immediately upon driver request
There is a reason L3 cars have things like redundant brakes, steering and redundant computer systems.
@Bladerskb -- any prediction on when Tesla actually releases something from EAP or FSD? So far they are lagging your last set of predictions (i.e. you said divergence from AP1 in August, it is September).
JeffK
Well-Known Member
You'll have to go back and read his post... at no time did he say L3 involved monitoring.
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I said aug/sept.
I still believe they will release a big update by the end of the month and the tesla elites will lap it up.
But its also interesting that its been 11 months and EAP has yet to show up. Shows you how behind they are just like i said... that they cant even get a simple auto lane change working.
But dont fret, in 14 days EAP will be here.
So if there won't be a big update by Oct 1st, would you admit you are not always right?
So if there won't be a big update by Oct 1st, would you admit you are not always right?
Its ironic in that @Bladerskb is actually an optimist about Tesla's timelines now. I happen to agree that Tesla will get desperate and release something even if its half baked. PR is everything to Tesla and they'll need to drive Q4 sales.
I can only imagine the ostrich eggs on Elon's face when December rolls into March and they still can't do a partial FSD trip. @Bladerskb did accurately describe why an LA to NY trip is far easier than demonstrating actual FSD but I'd be happy even with a farce of a trip at this point if it means Tesla is delivering something of EAP/FSD (either or, pick one). We're still not at AP1 parity but I do feel that is close...
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