While I agree (but the fired part, if you fire everybody every time somebody makes a mistake people will never learn), I would add that once step 5 and 6 is done, move back to honest advertising.
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Letter To Elon Musk Regarding P85D Horsepower – Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Andyw2100
- Start date
While I agree (but the fired part, if you fire everybody every time somebody makes a mistake people will never learn), I would add that once step 5 and 6 is done, move back to honest advertising.
Krugerrand
Meow
You think this is one of those mistakes that could be overlooked if indeed someone got to the numbers wrong? Really? If this is one of those kinds of mistakes, then why do we have numerous threads and hundreds of complaining posts and a public letter being signed by what appears to be dozens of people? We've either got a bunch of owners that can't drive their way out of a wet paper bag, or a firmware bug/bad code/whathaveyou, or an EV technology/performance misunderstanding that requires education, or someone messed up big time. We might also have a combination of some or all of those things.
Krugerrand
Meow
@krugerrand for once I think we are almost on the same page
See, not tricky at all. Just a matter of getting down to the brass tacks.
Krugerrand
Meow
Hehe, tricky might not have been the best choice of words
Time consuming.
Pain in the butt.
Resource stealing.
But entirely solvable.
Despite what you keep saying, those two statements together make it seem what you are looking for is essentially a "L" upgrade out of all this.
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Depending on what they do in Step 3, I am not sure Step 5 needs to be under NDA. Assuming its not a screw-up on someone's part, this can be an oppty for Tesla to establish some standards for testing/measuring multi-motor drivetrains. Even if it is a screw-up, I think they are better of taking their lumps now, rather than letting this drag out even longer.
Krugerrand
Meow
You're absolutely right. If this is simply a lack of understanding about the tech and how the numbers were achieved, then no need for step 5 at all.
I'm not convinced they are purposely dragging this on (not that you've specifically suggested that). Tesla has a lot on their plate and the Danish group is already receiving some communications on the topic (from over a week ago). Also, this new letter hasn't been sent and for all we know Tesla is already working behind the scenes on an education package/website changes/etc... We don't know.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The P85D gets 0-60 in 3.1/3.2 with rollout and 11.7/11.8 in the quarter mile. There is dispute over the rollout (largely from European side), but the 1/4 mile there isn't really dispute. The P90D L gets 10.9 supposedly in quarter mile (verification pending), but that means it is an upgrade in the advertised performance, not simply a direct replacement as those pushing for free upgrade is insinuating.
I'm not commenting on power because up to now we still don't know what the P90D L makes. But depending on if it is lower, the same, or higher than 691 hp, that will also mean different things. It's not as straightforward as presented.
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Just to comment on the general radio silence on this issue, I think Tesla has been well aware of the 691 hp thread and well aware they can easily make matters worse depending on how they respond. Personally, I feel the $5000 Ludicrous was the solution they came up with that takes into account of the costs, impact on future advertising, etc. But people saw them "give an inch" and decided to "take a mile". I'm curious how they will respond next.
Krugerrand
Meow
I signed the letter, don't own a P85D and that's the only thing I personally strongly wish would happen. By honest, I mean non-misleading (vs virtual 691 bhp) and realistic (vs promised P85D performance OTA upgrade which never materialized)...
I thought about this after I posted this and share your thinking. Looking at prior behavior, most notably the Broder response, I am thinking the reply will be more definitive than simply "hey, our smart guys/gals say its 691hp" and include the appropriate operating theory and the empirical data to back it up, all of which may take time to pull together and package appropriately.
Unfortunately I have been thinking right from when we started to approach Tesla Motors long ago and even to this day, that the corporate lawyer strategy rules here (ever seen the "Rainmaker"?): Silence, Silence... Deny, Deny, etc.. Unfortunately also, this strategy is, when the firestorm starts, the one that will hit back the hardest. I'm not happy at all about that, - but being as stubborn as I am, I'm in all the way.
I gotta believe their powertrain engineering team is hard at work wrapping up the MX and beginning work on the M3 and this is all a distraction--they are a leanly staffed company so pulling even one engineer off the current projects to run tests, etc is impacting. Since we are hypothesizing on next steps, here is my guess:
1) Publish a blog post that explains how Tesla measures horsepower on dual-motor drive trains, back it up with appropriate data and any analog in other industries to bolster their position
2) Offer to buy-back P85Ds from any unhappy owners (which immediately defuses any PR backlash)
3) Kill the P85D and make the P90DL the halo car
4) Flip the buy-back P85Ds from step 2 via the CPO program
1) Publish a blog post that explains how Tesla measures horsepower on dual-motor drive trains, back it up with appropriate data and any analog in other industries to bolster their position
2) Offer to buy-back P85Ds from any unhappy owners (which immediately defuses any PR backlash)
3) Kill the P85D and make the P90DL the halo car
4) Flip the buy-back P85Ds from step 2 via the CPO program
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Seems like a good guess. I would add that they should also do a brief mention of rollout in such a post and add asterisks to the the European numbers at least, since that was one of the concerns.
Personally I was dumbfounded when they made this a $10k upgrade. It screams huge ripoff to me. I thought it would be the de facto standard for P85D for all. People buy the P85D for its power and to all of the sudden say "hey we actually didn't give you everything, give us another 5-10k and we'll make it slightly faster again" is poor judgement IMO and seems like a typical shady dealership type thing to do. I find it dirty, and offensive to all P85D owners. Tesla should incorporate this as standard into the all current and future P85Ds IMO.
jerjozwik
Active Member
this is my hope, to see the p90d and p85d consolidated with price adjustment in order to "streamline production" when the model x gets going. every other day im on the fence thinking, "oh p85d is plenty enough for me, i dont need to have insane mode over the speed limit." then the next day thinking but the p90d is so close in price...
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