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Lol, one day people will blame taking showers at 6pm on a grid failure

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Coastal locations with mild climates are some of the dumbest places to heat with gas furnaces. I'd be more concerned about people in places like Tahoe. But still, if your grid is running off of 100% renewables and nuclear power, and is zero emissions, it's probably better to use electric heat strips when it gets too cold to use heat pumps.

They'll have to wire the parking spaces for level 2 charging anyway. Might as well convert everything at the same time. I think gas ovens make less sense to ban because you can't use a heat pump to heat an oven -- the temperature difference is too big.
It makes sense to eliminate the NG hookup entirely. So maybe people would have to use propane if they want to cook with gas.

For electric, I expect increased adoption of induction cooktops, so the future will be heat pump heating, heat pump water tank, electric convection oven and induction cooktop, PV in the roof and EV in the garage.
 
Imagine you live in a coastal area that's pretty much always chilly/never needs AC

Does that really exist anymore? Where I grew up in WA was like that when I was growing up. Not anymore. A really dramatic example was some candles my parents were given when they were married. They had been sitting on the mantle since 1996. In 2020 it go so hot in the house they partially melted. The house doesn't have AC... never really needed it... kinda does now.
 
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Not going to ban gas appliances and boilers/furnaces completely due to the retrofit issue. Like-for-like replacement has long been built into building and electrical codes for precisely that reason.
I don't understand, then. What good are building codes when the state says, "Sorry, you can't buy a replacement furnace." Eventually we'll all have ancient, decrepit furnaces held together with duct tape and bailing wire. Kinda like old cars in Cuba. Cue up the increased rate of house fires and carbon monoxide poisonings.
 
It makes sense to eliminate the NG hookup entirely. So maybe people would have to use propane if they want to cook with gas.
If you're cooking with gas, it makes sense to just have it piped in. Having to have propane delivered or having to go get propane at a refueling station is kind of like switching from EV to ICE and having to make special refueling stops. And there is also a carbon footprint associated with doing that.

For electric, I expect increased adoption of induction cooktops, so the future will be heat pump heating, heat pump water tank, electric convection oven and induction cooktop, PV in the roof and EV in the garage.
The only issue is that some types of cooking do better with gas. There's still no equivalent of lifting a wok off of a flame in the world of induction cooking. But I'll admit that's kind of a niche market and I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of cleaning a gas stove.
I don't understand, then. What good are building codes when the state says, "Sorry, you can't buy a replacement furnace." Eventually we'll all have ancient, decrepit furnaces held together with duct tape and bailing wire. Kinda like old cars in Cuba. Cue up the increased rate of house fires and carbon monoxide poisonings.
They should go after the fuel sources and not the appliances themselves. If you want to burn hydrocarbons in your appliances or vehicles, or buy new appliances or vehicles that do this, go right ahead. But just require that those hydrocarbons are entirely sourced in a carbon neutral manner. If gasoline happens to cost $15/gallon and natural gas is $6/therm, so be it.
 
If your furnace needs to be replaced, you put in a heat pump. This isn't rocket science. If the fires increase, then you require the furnace repair people to refuse to fix ancient equipment. Nope sir, it looks like you need to get a heat pump. Can't afford one - well, that is always a problem. It will happen at $10 a therm also. There is no easy fix for the poor that doesn't require significant government help which is part of the reason that conservatives have to deny climate change.
That is as bad of an argument as not being able to shower at 6 pm. Ridiculous. Is someone getting advice/arguments from Trump?
 
I don't understand, then. What good are building codes when the state says, "Sorry, you can't buy a replacement furnace." Eventually we'll all have ancient, decrepit furnaces held together with duct tape and bailing wire. Kinda like old cars in Cuba. Cue up the increased rate of house fires and carbon monoxide poisonings.
when things are "banned" in CA at least usually means in this case new or completely rebuilt homes .. the building code police are not going door to door to check existing homes ... not practical .. same with residential smoke / CO detectors / fire sprinklers (checked during permiting / home sale etc )
you are generally allowed to replace gas furnace with another etc .. it should be more appropriately termed phase out .. banned prob makes for good click bait / headlines
 
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Yep... probably gonna need more government intervention to stop HOAs from preventing heat pumps in the same way they're stopping them from preventing solar.

NC court rules against Raleigh HOA, making it easier for people to install solar panels


It's not even so much HOA f***ery in and of itself but the technical and financial challenges required to retrofit and engineer a proper long term solution in a way that the HOA and all of its members can agree. If a condominium property requires brand new installations of external units for heat pumps where none previously existed, a lot is involved: Architectural (where to install them), mechanical (running new refrigerant linesets through common walls which will involve the displacement of residents and subsequent drywall patching/painting), and obviously electrical (adding 20+A circuits to existing breaker panels which are likely already maxxed out). Such a project would likely result in thousands of dollars of work or special assessments to the owners.

At least in the case of heat, I guess it's optional. People can still freeze, I suppose. But if they ever come for gas stoves/ovens or clothes dryers, there is going to be a real problem. This is just creating a whole lot of financial pain for certain individuals with little to no perceptible gain.
 
It's not even so much HOA f***ery in and of itself but the technical and financial challenges required to retrofit and engineer a proper long term solution in a way that the HOA and all of its members can agree. If a condominium property requires brand new installations of external units for heat pumps where none previously existed, a lot is involved: Architectural (where to install them), mechanical (running new refrigerant linesets through common walls which will involve the displacement of residents and subsequent drywall patching/painting), and obviously electrical (adding 20+A circuits to existing breaker panels which are likely already maxxed out). Such a project would likely result in thousands of dollars of work or special assessments to the owners.

At least in the case of heat, I guess it's optional. People can still freeze, I suppose. But if they ever come for gas stoves/ovens or clothes dryers, there is going to be a real problem. This is just creating a whole lot of financial pain for certain individuals with little to no perceptible gain.
It's not really pain because they aren't coming after existing units. You can use and repair existing stuff for as long as you want. It's only when purchasing something new that you'd have to switch. And it's way less involved than the service upgrade and digging up the yard I had to do when I switched from an ICE vehicle to a Tesla.
 
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And what happens when those existing furnaces break and need replacement? I feel like I'm talking in circles.
Then you replace the furnace with a heat pump. It's not a big deal. In fact, I am likely replacing an aging furnace and AC unit with a dual fuel system next month which will primarily operate in heat pump mode and cut my use of gas dramatically. In the past 3 years I have had two dead furnace main boards and one dead condenser unit fan capacitor that could have damaged my compressor because the AC unit does not have thermal and pressure cutoff switches. So I'd rather just replace the entire system than risk it breaking again. And while I wasn't going to dump a perfectly good furnace and AC unit for a heat pump for no reason, doing this switch when I need a new system anyway seemed like a good idea. And under the CARB proposal, it's going to be the same. Use what you have until it breaks, then replace with a heat pump.
 
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I hate to bring a pinch of reality into the conversation but you typically need your furnace the most at night time or when it’s inclement weather and cloudy, so the electricity supplying the heat pump would be from natural gas or coal fired power plants, especially in harsh climates. Bay Area or SoCal is a completely different climate than most of the country and the rest of the world. Some areas you don’t see sun or above freezing temperatures for weeks.
 
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