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[lolachampcar] Performance Upgrade Efforts
- Thread starter lolachampcar
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Well, I have nearly dropped something usually hidden a couple of times under hard acceleration in a turn when the back end suddenly went into hyperoscillation mode.
On to another related subject, do the Flasher upgrades give us a wider window for rear alignment settings? It sounds like some owners that have the shaved down camber bolts installed are still left in quite negative camber-land, even at the far limits of adjustment.
tezco,
Please do not get me started on rear negative camber
I can hop on that milk crate and sing all day.
All teasing aside, loose sloppy bolts are a bit of a loose sloppy fix in my book (sorry Tesla). The bottom line is that Tesla does not want to have different suspension geometry for the air cars thus air will always carry large (by my definition of large) negative camber when the suspension is lower than the coil spring cars. Most owners seem to appreciate the handling benefits of having the car lower (just look at the I want my lowering back threads) so I think it is safe to say that low, and it's associated camber, is with us for a while.
It is a cost of ownership issue and not a safety issue. If there are some accidents that are traced back to inside shoulder wear driven blow outs, that will change. Regretfully, any corrective action will involve a lot more cars then had Tesla produced a longer upper link instead of sloppy bolts. Tesla is made up of thinking, risk managing big girls and boys. I have to trust that they have thought this whole thing out and have done what is best for the company.
All that said, the situation was not for me thus the custom links and even rear tread wear. I do not trust myself to stay on top of inside shoulder wear and typically use all the tire life I can before replacing. A one time correction seemed the obvious path.
Please do not get me started on rear negative camber
I can hop on that milk crate and sing all day.All teasing aside, loose sloppy bolts are a bit of a loose sloppy fix in my book (sorry Tesla). The bottom line is that Tesla does not want to have different suspension geometry for the air cars thus air will always carry large (by my definition of large) negative camber when the suspension is lower than the coil spring cars. Most owners seem to appreciate the handling benefits of having the car lower (just look at the I want my lowering back threads) so I think it is safe to say that low, and it's associated camber, is with us for a while.
It is a cost of ownership issue and not a safety issue. If there are some accidents that are traced back to inside shoulder wear driven blow outs, that will change. Regretfully, any corrective action will involve a lot more cars then had Tesla produced a longer upper link instead of sloppy bolts. Tesla is made up of thinking, risk managing big girls and boys. I have to trust that they have thought this whole thing out and have done what is best for the company.
All that said, the situation was not for me thus the custom links and even rear tread wear. I do not trust myself to stay on top of inside shoulder wear and typically use all the tire life I can before replacing. A one time correction seemed the obvious path.
I went a different route to fix the camber on my P85+ (air). I didn't like how the rear was lower than the front in both standard and low ride height mode. I elongated the holes in the bracket that holds the travel sensor in the rear. By rotating the sensor a little in the bracket it told the computer the suspension was lower than it really was and the computer raised the rear.
By doing this, the rear is now 12 mm higher with no change in the front. Rear Camber is -1.3/-1.5 in standard and -1.6/-1.8 in low. I also think the car looks better with an even stance.
By doing this, the rear is now 12 mm higher with no change in the front. Rear Camber is -1.3/-1.5 in standard and -1.6/-1.8 in low. I also think the car looks better with an even stance.
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Link sketches and misc ramblings
The following attachements are provided with out explanation of any kind. These are just some misc. sketches and are provided without warranty of any kind including fitness for any particular purpose.
Oops, the forum does not like DXF file uploads so-
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/New Upper Arms/new_upper_rear_model_s_suspensio.htm
The following attachements are provided with out explanation of any kind. These are just some misc. sketches and are provided without warranty of any kind including fitness for any particular purpose.
Oops, the forum does not like DXF file uploads so-
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/New Upper Arms/new_upper_rear_model_s_suspensio.htm
How to adjust the standard ride height after upper link swap?
LolaChampCar - I upgraded the upper links (with Chris at OpenEV store)... now the rear of the car is much lower than the front and is also causing the camber to be worse/same. The car is so low in the rear that I bottomed out on my driveway. That never happened before. Not Chris's fault but I need to figure out how to adjust the "standard" ride height after putting on the slightly longer upper links. Any pictures/details that I can show the shop would be appreciated. Not sure why my pictures are upside down.
LolaChampCar - I upgraded the upper links (with Chris at OpenEV store)... now the rear of the car is much lower than the front and is also causing the camber to be worse/same. The car is so low in the rear that I bottomed out on my driveway. That never happened before. Not Chris's fault but I need to figure out how to adjust the "standard" ride height after putting on the slightly longer upper links. Any pictures/details that I can show the shop would be appreciated. Not sure why my pictures are upside down.
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The ride hight sensor "ball" attaches to the upper link. It is important to get the location of this mounting hole in the correct location if you hope to capture the original ride height.
I did not have a ride height issue with the links I made. I did have a set of adjustable ride sensor links but am reasonably sure I installed these after I did my arms.
Put the new and stock links on top of one another lining up the bushing holes on center line and then check the location of the ride height sensor ball mounting hole. The ball hole is on a much smaller radius than the upright so small changes in ball location are amplified at the wheel. Put differently, you do not have to be off much on the hole location to muck up your ride height.
Link, how did your ride hight come out with the set you had made?
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I can see if I can dig up my adjustable links which might get you by until you find the culprit.
I did not have a ride height issue with the links I made. I did have a set of adjustable ride sensor links but am reasonably sure I installed these after I did my arms.
Put the new and stock links on top of one another lining up the bushing holes on center line and then check the location of the ride height sensor ball mounting hole. The ball hole is on a much smaller radius than the upright so small changes in ball location are amplified at the wheel. Put differently, you do not have to be off much on the hole location to muck up your ride height.
Link, how did your ride hight come out with the set you had made?
edit
I can see if I can dig up my adjustable links which might get you by until you find the culprit.
Unchanged.
I am .250" lower in the rear than the front (which I think is very close to original ride height with non-staggards).
When I switch to staggards, if I can e v e r r get these darn tires to wear out, I will be at zero rake. Since I am "old school" and prefer .250 - .500" rake, I am going to take the opposite tack of zwede's approach and lower the front .250" instead of raising the rear.
Greenies down on both dr. and pass. sides.
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I agree with Link. I think both of the arms should be down. It is super easy to reach in and pop off the link, reposition the arm and pop it back on. It should take five minutes to test the theory but I think you will be back on track
If you jack the car up to get better access (or just put it on High), do not forget to use a piece of wood between the jack plate and the rubber on the jacking point on the car. The rubber jacking point is usually smaller than the jacking cup/plate on standard floor jacks.
If you jack the car up to get better access (or just put it on High), do not forget to use a piece of wood between the jack plate and the rubber on the jacking point on the car. The rubber jacking point is usually smaller than the jacking cup/plate on standard floor jacks.
That was it... flipped the ride height sensor.... thanks!!
Thanks guys for the quick responses! Really appreciate the help and feedback. Once the 1/2 green 1/2 black ride height arm was flipped down (instead of up) the car was happy again. Did another alignment and the numbers look much better.
Thanks LolaChampCar and Chris for making the product available for guys like me!
Thanks guys for the quick responses! Really appreciate the help and feedback. Once the 1/2 green 1/2 black ride height arm was flipped down (instead of up) the car was happy again. Did another alignment and the numbers look much better.
Thanks LolaChampCar and Chris for making the product available for guys like me!
tires will be much happier with something around 1.5 on rear camber. Your toe is zero which may give you just a tad of toe out on hard acceleration exiting a corner (if you do that sort of thing). The car may tend to rotate a bit better than it used to but it is nothing to worry about.
but it is nothing to worry about.
strange, I noticed the opposite.... I had better range at 0.15 total in than 0.45 but less straight line stability. We would also run near zero rear toe at Daytona to improve top speed.
They look beautiful to me. My camber numbers are less, but my 4 "toes" are nearly identical to yours and I am on track to achieve 40K (currently at 32K) from my original 21 Conti's.
I am unsure why zwede wants you to scrub your rear tires though, his recommendation just makes my particular S less efficient. But then again, I have never been a factory spec guy in the past as I used to carry 2 "bottles" in the trunk in case another "street thug" got the jump on me and one wasn't enough. :biggrin:
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