Looking for real world winter consumption values

[Braumin]

Long story short we have to travel to see family at Christmas. They live 250 km (160 miles) away and there is zero charging infrastructure on the way - not even a 14-50 outlet somewhere I could add a few % to the car. I've done the trip several times since getting the car and normally arrive with about 38-40% battery left when I leave with 90% or so.

Car is a 2021 M3 Performance. I have 18" snow tires and wheels installed.

Has anyone with a LR/Performance heat pump car got any real world data on Wh/km or Wh/mi in cold temps? By cold I mean like -20°C (-4°F). ABRP suggest I will use 258 Wh/km at that temp with a slight headwind. Speed limit is 100 km/h or 60 mph.

First winter with the car so I really have no idea what the consumption will be. I think I am pretty safe - it would likely need to be close to 300 Wh/km to not make it 250 km. But also don't want to strand the family on the Christmas trip when we could just take our gas SUV. I just much prefer the Tesla plus it is way cheaper to drive on a trip.

Family has a 6-50 outlet in a heated building so there are no worries about recharging when I get there. Just hoping for some real world data. I've looked through the master thread about frozen charge ports and such but there is very little discussion there about consumption on the highway in the winter, especially with the new heat pump cars. I know winter is just starting but hoping someone has had some experience!

 

[jjrandorin]

If you charge to 100% (you should), it sounds like you should be fine. If you normally go from 90% to 40%, you might go from 100% to 30% or something but still make it.

At 60 MPH I dont see any way you could "not" make that trip, starting with 100%

 

[Braumin]

If you charge to 100% (you should), it sounds like you should be fine. If you normally go from 90% to 40%, you might go from 100% to 30% or something but still make it.

At 60 MPH I dont see any way you could "not" make that trip, starting with 100%

ABRP suggest I will arrive with like 11% from 100% which I am OK with as long as it's not way off I agree it should be OK. I've had the car almost a year and range anxiety is still a thing for me. I haven't had enough highway miles to really figure out what the car can do to be comfortable, especially in the winter. I've seen my consumption around the city be pretty high when it's cold out which is why I am nervous. There is very little infrastructure around here which doesn't help.

 

[jjrandorin]

The things you should do to prepare (which, I believe are on teslas site for cold weather tips). not ment to be all inclusive:

1. Charge to 100% before departure. Time this charging to end close to when you will leave so you leave with a warm battery
2. Pre condition your cabin, while connected to your home charger, so when your trip starts, you can minimize the amount of energy used to condition the cabin.
3. Drive the speed limit
4. Use your seat heaters as well as cabin heat. See if you can turn the temp 1-2 degrees lower with seat heaters on

The big ones IMO are leaving with 100% and having a warm battery / cabin when you leave, then driving the speed limit on your trip. Weather matters, so if its raining etc your consumption will go way up. If its going to rain, I would consider taking your gas car, since you are stating there is no charging at all on the way. If not, you should be ok.

With all that being said, if it would make your significant other (or you) more comfortable to take the gas car, then do that. Christmas trips etc can be stressful enough, without adding additional pressure points / conflict. If your significant other is unsure, for example, better to remove "the car" as a talking point / stress point.

I am not trying to read into anything, just acknowledging that "christmas time:" can be difficult, for a lot of reasons, and if YOU are stressed about it, your family will absolutely pick up on that, even subconsciously, increasing the stress on the trip in general.

 

[IdaX]

Are you going up in altitude? My instinct is that a modern heat-pump model 3 can easily do this…. With an older model 3, I get 2/3 range in winter; your trip is only half your range, so should make it if you keep to a modest speed.

Let us know how it went afterward!

 

[Braumin]

Are you going up in altitude? My instinct is that a modern heat-pump model 3 can easily do this…. With an older model 3, I get 2/3 range in winter; your trip is only half your range, so should make it if you keep to a modest speed.

Let us know how it went afterward!

I am not the trip is pretty flat. I will see how the weather is looking closer to the departure date and then decide I guess. Hopefully I can take some shorter trips to get a feel for how it is when it's cold out.

 

[Braumin]

The things you should do to prepare (which, I believe are on teslas site for cold weather tips). not ment to be all inclusive:

1. Charge to 100% before departure. Time this charging to end close to when you will leave so you leave with a warm battery
2. Pre condition your cabin, while connected to your home charger, so when your trip starts, you can minimize the amount of energy used to condition the cabin.
3. Drive the speed limit
4. Use your seat heaters as well as cabin heat. See if you can turn the temp 1-2 degrees lower with seat heaters on

The big ones IMO are leaving with 100% and having a warm battery / cabin when you leave, then driving the speed limit on your trip. Weather matters, so if its raining etc your consumption will go way up. If its going to rain, I would consider taking your gas car, since you are stating there is no charging at all on the way. If not, you should be ok.

With all that being said, if it would make your significant other (or you) more comfortable to take the gas car, then do that. Christmas trips etc can be stressful enough, without adding additional pressure points / conflict. If your significant other is unsure, for example, better to remove "the car" as a talking point / stress point.

I am not trying to read into anything, just acknowledging that "christmas time:" can be difficult, for a lot of reasons, and if YOU are stressed about it, your family will absolutely pick up on that, even subconsciously, increasing the stress on the trip in general.

Always precondition - that's my favorite part of the Tesla in the winter! And it won't be raining at -20 (I would hope) but possibility of some snow of course. If it's going to snow I would just abandon the effort and take the BMW (first world problems I know).

I agree I don't need any extra stress. I have a shorter trip this weekend of about half the distance. It's supposed to be close to the same temperatures so I should have a better feel after that. I'll keep a close eye on the average consumption in the energy display and report back.

 

[DeltaOne]

I've had the car almost a year and range anxiety is still a thing for me. I haven't had enough highway miles to really figure out what the car can do to be comfortable, especially in the winter.

You probably know this, but be sure to learn how to use the Energy screen, on the Trip page, when you're on a trip like this. This screen has helped me quite a bit with range anxiety.

 

[GtiMart]

Change some settings in ABRP and see how it affects its prediction, in particular your speed. That will tell you what control you have over the arrival SOC. It should help reduce your anxiety.
There are really no CHAdeMO chargers on your route (you could rent an adapter) nor even level 2 (J1772) chargers? Any of these can be used in emergency situations. I don't think you'll need them but I'm really surprised that there would be none.
EDIT: my experience with ABRP in cold weather is that it's very reliable if you enter the parameters correctly.

 

[Unclepaul]

For those with pre-trip anxiety, know that your display will constantly update you on your ability to reach your destination as you are on your journey.

If you plan well, you will get pretty much what you calculate, but if along the way you experience conditions such as snow, rain, headwinds etc, you will be able to see, in plenty of time, if you will need to make a short stop at a charger to continue your journey.

 

[GtiMart]

True, I typically pop up the energy graph on the "trip" tab to see how the estimate adjusts as I drive. Once I've had to drop a little bit of speed to arrive at 2% SOC at charger. I decided to use all the available energy because I had the information in front of me. I could have slowed down more and arrived at say 10% SOC but the trip would have been longer for no good reason.

 

[Braumin]

Change some settings in ABRP and see how it affects its prediction, in particular your speed. That will tell you what control you have over the arrival SOC. It should help reduce your anxiety.
There are really no CHAdeMO chargers on your route (you could rent an adapter) nor even level 2 (J1772) chargers? Any of these can be used in emergency situations. I don't think you'll need them but I'm really surprised that there would be none.
EDIT: my experience with ABRP in cold weather is that it's very reliable if you enter the parameters correctly.

I did use the Road Conditions setting in ABRP to set the temp and wind and I am glad you can confirm they are fairly accurate. If that's the case it is showing me 258 Wh/km which leaves me at 11% and should be OK.

And no, there's no J1772 or CHAdeMO on the route. I expect eventually there will be at least some CCS chargers but nothing yet.

 

[emiliorescigno]

I always plan for ~333 wh/mile in Real Cold™ weather conditions in Minnesota. I have a 2019 Model 3 with a PTC.

 

[KenC]

ABRP suggest I will arrive with like 11% from 100% which I am OK with as long as it's not way off I agree it should be OK. I've had the car almost a year and range anxiety is still a thing for me. I haven't had enough highway miles to really figure out what the car can do to be comfortable, especially in the winter. I've seen my consumption around the city be pretty high when it's cold out which is why I am nervous. There is very little infrastructure around here which doesn't help.

ABRP uses real-world data, and is extremely accurate if you give it accurate inputs. Of course, if it were me and this is a somewhat sketchy trip, I'd sign up for the subscription, 14 days free, then $5 afterward per month. That will factor in the Wind, which is the other big variable besides speed and temp and elevation. Your cushion is obviously speed and heat. If you are doing worse than expected, slow down and reduce heat.

 

[MG535]

Long story short we have to travel to see family at Christmas. They live 250 km (160 miles) away and there is zero charging infrastructure on the way - not even a 14-50 outlet somewhere I could add a few % to the car. I've done the trip several times since getting the car and normally arrive with about 38-40% battery left when I leave with 90% or so.

Car is a 2021 M3 Performance. I have 18" snow tires and wheels installed.

Has anyone with a LR/Performance heat pump car got any real world data on Wh/km or Wh/mi in cold temps? By cold I mean like -20°C (-4°F). ABRP suggest I will use 258 Wh/km at that temp with a slight headwind. Speed limit is 100 km/h or 60 mph.

First winter with the car so I really have no idea what the consumption will be. I think I am pretty safe - it would likely need to be close to 300 Wh/km to not make it 250 km. But also don't want to strand the family on the Christmas trip when we could just take our gas SUV. I just much prefer the Tesla plus it is way cheaper to drive on a trip.

Family has a 6-50 outlet in a heated building so there are no worries about recharging when I get there. Just hoping for some real world data. I've looked through the master thread about frozen charge ports and such but there is very little discussion there about consumption on the highway in the winter, especially with the new heat pump cars. I know winter is just starting but hoping someone has had some experience!

Maybe because I’m new to EV drivership but I wouldn’t want that kind of anxiety while taking the kids somewhere over Christmas. Imagine the scenario of running out of juice for whatever reason and then imagine your kids waiting in -20C weather presumably without heat … even if you could put them in an Uber for the remaining distance you’re plausibly looking at waiting for hours for a tow truck.

I did not particularly enjoy returning from thanksgiving with 9% left and that was in much milder conditions (both traffic and temperature wise) with a lot more charging infrastructure en route.

Eventually you and me both will be road-tripping more in our EVs but for now we both kept an ICEV for a reason. Sounds like this trip is exactly the type of scenario for why you kept an ICEV.

 

[MG535]

If you plan well, you will get pretty much what you calculate, but if along the way you experience conditions such as snow, rain, headwinds etc, you will be able to see, in plenty of time, if you will need to make a short stop at a charger to continue your journey.

That’s the crux of the issue. OP said he has literally nowhere to charge on the way.

Worst-case scenario of “we had to make an unexpected charging stop on the way” wouldn’t bother even someone like me too much but that’s very very different from being stranded and then waiting for a tow truck over a holiday when they are busier and/or fewer available.

 

[GtiMart]

Monitoring the energy meter trip section is a sure way to not run out of power. There is no need to add a charging stop if your planning (with correct parameters) shows you make it with 9%left. You need to follow do as you've planned, and slow down if the trip estimate starts falling close to 0.

 

[JaredM3]

For what its worth, I have a 2020 Long Range, so no heat pump, but I am familiar with Canada’s freezing temps. I regularly do 250km trip from Ottawa to the south shore in Montreal. In the winter I generally leave 90-100% charge, pre condition the car, and usually arrive with 20% left. Heat set to 18-19C, driving between 100km/h-130km/h. Usually in the 250-275wh/km range.

I just went a few weeks ago during a blizzard, fighting heavy wind and snow accumulation basically the entire way, but obviously slower speeds, resulted in the same energy consumption.

Im sure you’ll be fine

Jared

 

[Braumin]

For what its worth, I have a 2020 Long Range, so no heat pump, but I am familiar with Canada’s freezing temps. I regularly do 250km trip from Ottawa to the south shore in Montreal. In the winter I generally leave 90-100% charge, pre condition the car, and usually arrive with 20% left. Heat set to 18-19C, driving between 100km/h-130km/h. Usually in the 250-275wh/km range.

I just went a few weeks ago during a blizzard, fighting heavy wind and snow accumulation basically the entire way, but obviously slower speeds, resulted in the same energy consumption.

Im sure you’ll be fine

Jared

Thanks Jared! 250-275Wh/km is kind of what I am expecting. We just haven't been travelling enough for me to get a feel for it yet. This gives some comfort especially with you driving through a blizzard since that would have hit the energy efficiency pretty hard.

 

[JaredM3]

Thanks Jared! 250-275Wh/km is kind of what I am expecting. We just haven't been travelling enough for me to get a feel for it yet. This gives some comfort especially with you driving through a blizzard since that would have hit the energy efficiency pretty hard.

Ya, snow accumulation is painful for energy consumption. Speed will play a big factor for you as well. I should try to do my trip in the most effecient way possible one time to see if I can get close to what the car predicts. Looking at the energy graph is normally way off for me, because of the way I drive obviously.

My brother has a Performance and regularly does Ottawa to Kingston, not quite as far, but I’ll reach out to him and see what his consumption generally is. Ive used his car multiple times and usually my consumption in his, is basically the same as mine.

My sister in law who I visit in montreal should be receiving her new standard range soon, will be interesting to see how it compares doing the same trip during the winter.

Most of the reason I went long range was specifically to be able to make that trip non-stop in the winter

Jared