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Looks like I'm moving on...

Would you get another Tesla?

  • Yes

    Votes: 98 69.5%
  • No

    Votes: 22 15.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 21 14.9%

  • Total voters
    141
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Moving on? 'Bye.
OK, it's somewhat sad when someone leaves, but people come and go all the time. I should have just left it, but I started wondering. Does he want us to talk him out of leaving? Should I have wished him a safe trip? I didn't know. I really didn't know him and he probably doesn't know me either, so I just figured I'm one of the crowd. Hope he wanders back around to Tesla one of these days and re-evaluates the brand. There just aren't any other brands that focus entirely on electrics, and you really can't compare a gas car's upholstery, say, to a Tesla, because we're not talking upholstery, but power source. Not windows, not turn signals, not brakes. Power source. To dump on it because it's not quite up to Honda's level of manufacturing ability is missing the mark.

I have 66 solar panels and three power walls. My car pretty much runs on the power I collect. Nothing else out there is like Tesla. And I'm not moving on..
 
As I explained in my OP, my lease expires in a few months. The M3P lease costs have risen over 40% in the last 18 months, so I won't be getting another M3P, partly because of the cost and partly because of the niggles with the car, which I find have accumulated. There are now other choices, such as the Kia EV6, Ionic 5, and now the BMW i4, which in M50 form (and only about 2k more), is just as quick as the M3P in the real world. The supercharger network is not a deal breaker for me as I haven't used one for about a year now. I will miss the big screen (but not the oversized car visualisations), or the noise levels above 60-70 mph, or the self driving features which are flawed IMO. I also find the brakes can't quite cash the cheques that the performance writes out.

I came to the Tesla from a Lexus, which from a quality perspective has affected the way I look at cars. Having now experienced the power of the Tesla, I find I'm of a certain age where I want a quick car (but not too concerned about super quick), but I also want a compliant ride and a relaxed high speed cruise, neither of which the M3P can currently deliver. Priorities have changed over the last couple of years. To sum up, the M3P is a lovely piece of kit, but it could (and should) be better for a 60k car. This is, of course, only my view on the car.
 
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I considered the original Roadster as a toy, and never managed to justify the expense. Loved my Elise though. After 2 Renault Zoe's which have been great - especially running off solar PV - I took the plunge with an MS Raven LR. The purchase process was agony start to finish (it was the 4th car I 'comitted to' that Tesla actually managed to invoice me for after all manner of hassles) but I kinda knew what to expect and stuck with it.

As for many, it's been ups and downs, but over all no real grounds to complain with the basic car or even the service centre who have done perfectly well enough.

But I certainly didn't look at getting a Model 3 when I needed to move on from my Zoe daily driver. I couldn't face the indifference Tesla manage to exude both in nurturing any relationship that might lead to a sale in future, or the assumption that since they are the only game in town they can take future business for granted.

My concerns we reinforced when I recently requested a valuation against a new MS. The offer they made was not at all helpful. Didn't specify if the offer was based on a projected value with mileage assumptions, or of they expected to take the car now and leave me waiting for delivery in 2022 (may be). Just push the button and buy a car with minimal interaction. No mention of the value of FSD that was part of my car spec, or if they are obliged to honour any offer. If they expect to take my car now (don't see how they could make an offer on any other basis) then the sum they offered was a joke. Clearly I can sell privately - and since the car is mint, that would make sense - but their attitude towards the sales process massively devalues the product, especially for repeat customers for whom some of the Tesla 'rose tinting' is likely to have worn off! (Not really the issue, but the offer was around £55k for a mint / showroom 2019 MS R LR with FSD. My point here is that with no qualification and no chance to get the replacement vehicle for 18 months may be, it did not feel at all like they care about their customers or their (used) cars.)

Also, although relatively minor, stupid things like MP3 player album art suddenly stopping being displayed, the tendancy for some cameras to fog up / obscure so easily yet switching to vision only from radar system, no sign of FSD developments embracing UK roads and regulations and quite unattractive gross energy consumption and multiple bad experiences with fantom braking add up to a tall order to take sales claims for new vehicles as realistic.

The Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 however were really nice, we slightly preferred the Ioniq's styling with the little pixelated lighting.

I've been looking at the Hyundais and Kias. If I didn't have the MS I would most likely have postponed any move away from the Zoe and waited for the Ioniq 5. From an EV overall performance view point, Hyundai and Kia models seem to be pretty good on the whole, with perceived material quality being a common sticking point. But for the price, they have some very decent models already and the new ones look to continue that. I too prefer the Ioniq 5's looks, but in the end I decided to go with a demonstrator 64kwh Kona Ulimate pre-facelift. I have yet to find out for sure, but it might even have a UK towing rating! The price was only a shade higher than the Zoe offers I could find, but with a much higher spec and options there wasn't any competition, plus the dealer made me feel like they actually cared about the transaction. When at the last minute I noticed some quite deep scratches in the paint their wasnt even a hesitation. "I am so sorry, we would never sell a car with that damage. It will be fixed". Tesla were quite happy to let me drive their £80k ride from the collection point with rim rash and a gouge under the front apron.

I really am struggling to see me getting another Tesla. I want the one I've already got to deliver on some of it's FSD promises (regulatory framework permitting) and until that happens, or at least until it feels like someone somewhere is getting a dependable FSD product that does what was originally promised, then while I'll likely keep what I've already got, once bitten, twice shy.
 
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I considered the original Roadster as a toy, and never managed to justify the expense. Loved my Elise though. After 2 Renault Zoe's which have been great - especially running off solar PV - I took the plunge with an MS Raven LR. The purchase process was agony start to finish (it was the 4th car I 'comitted to' that Tesla actually managed to invoice me for after all manner of hassles) but I kinda knew what to expect and stuck with it.

As for many, it's been ups and downs, but over all no real grounds to complain with the basic car or even the service centre who have done perfectly well enough.

But I certainly didn't look at getting a Model 3 when I needed to move on from my Zoe daily driver. I couldn't face the indifference Tesla manage to exude both in nurturing any relationship that might lead to a sale in future, or the assumption that since they are the only game in town they can take future business for granted.

My concerns we reinforced when I recently requested a valuation against a new MS. The offer they made was not at all helpful. Didn't specify if the offer was based on a projected value with mileage assumptions, or of they expected to take the car now and leave me waiting for delivery in 2022 (may be). Just push the button and buy a car with minimal interaction. No mention of the value of FSD that was part of my car spec, or if they are obliged to honour any offer. If they expect to take my car now (don't see how they could make an offer on any other basis) then the sum they offered was a joke. Clearly I can sell privately - and since the car is mint, that would make sense - but their attitude towards the sales process massively devalues the product, especially for repeat customers for whom some of the Tesla 'rose tinting' is likely to have worn off! (Not really the issue, but the offer was around £55k for a mint / showroom 2019 MS R LR with FSD. My point here is that with no qualification and no chance to get the replacement vehicle for 18 months may be, it did not feel at all like they care about their customers or their (used) cars.)

Also, although relatively minor, stupid things like MP3 player album art suddenly stopping being displayed, the tendancy for some cameras to fog up / obscure so easily yet switching to vision only from radar system, no sign of FSD developments embracing UK roads and regulations and quite unattractive gross energy consumption and multiple bad experiences with fantom braking add up to a tall order to take sales claims for new vehicles as realistic.



I've been looking at the Hyundais and Kias. If I didn't have the MS I would most likely have postponed any move away from the Zoe and waited for the Ioniq 5. From an EV overall performance view point, Hyundai and Kia models seem to be pretty good on the whole, with perceived material quality being a common sticking point. But for the price, they have some very decent models already and the new ones look to continue that. I too prefer the Ioniq 5's looks, but in the end I decided to go with a demonstrator 64kwh Kona Ulimate pre-facelift. I have yet to find out for sure, but it might even have a UK towing rating! The price was only a shade higher than the Zoe offers I could find, but with a much higher spec and options there wasn't any competition, plus the dealer made me feel like they actually cared about the transaction. When at the last minute I noticed some quite deep scratches in the paint their wasnt even a hesitation. "I am so sorry, we would never sell a car with that damage. It will be fixed". Tesla were quite happy to let me drive their £80k ride from the collection point with rim rash and a gouge under the front apron.

I really am struggling to see me getting another Tesla. I want the one I've already got to deliver on some of it's FSD promises (regulatory framework permitting) and until that happens, or at least until it feels like someone somewhere is getting a dependable FSD product that does what was originally promised, then while I'll likely keep what I've already got, once bitten, twice shy.
I would like the software team to take a break from FSD altogether and address some of the basics. My personal bugbear is the inability to connect 2 phones to the Bluetooth. one for audio and one for calls. 95% of people wont care about this but those with teenagers will understand. Point is every car I have owned since 2012 has had this feature and I am talking about mainstream models , Skoda, Mini etc not Mercedes S class. Gotta walk before you can run
Oh and fricking Way Points. I know the lack of these is more ideological than software but it's pathologically stupid.
 
Way Points. I know the lack of these is more ideological than software
I'm not so sure. The ideological argument makes no sense. On a journey, decide you want food or to take an unplanned break .... Just set a waypoint!

Once you've used them, why would you not want them?!

My old Garmin Nuvi (and other Garmin devices) was so on the money years and years ago.

Find X (nearest) or (along my set route). Showed updating distances and direction to searched catagory. Set waypoint. Job done

Looking at niggles / snags (even allowing for first production) reported by latest MS refresh owners and there are so many 'same old same olds’ it's hard to see anything changing with Tesla. The introduction of yet another 'priority' and further justification as to why previous owners just have to hang in there 'Waiting for Godot' is really frustrating and a big turn off when looking for reasons to stick with the brand.
 
I would like the software team to take a break from FSD altogether and address some of the basics. My personal bugbear is the inability to connect 2 phones to the Bluetooth. one for audio and one for calls. 95% of people wont care about this but those with teenagers will understand. Point is every car I have owned since 2012 has had this feature and I am talking about mainstream models , Skoda, Mini etc not Mercedes S class. Gotta walk before you can run
Oh and fricking Way Points. I know the lack of these is more ideological than software but it's pathologically stupid.
My 2012 BMW didn't support audio over Bluetooth, only calling, steampunk era car.

While waypoints would be very useful, from what I read Tesla's ability to optimize a journey with charging is still way ahead of the competition. Others take no account of the charging speed, so frankly are useless.

Let's also mention at the moment Ford are bricking Mach-E with updates, VW are only just about to start their first OTA update.

We do tend overlook what Tesla is doing well.
 
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My 2012 BMW didn't support audio over Bluetooth, only calling, steampunk era car.

While waypoints would be very useful, from what I read Tesla's ability to optimize a journey with charging is still way ahead of the competition. Others take no account of the charging speed, so frankly are useless.

Let's also mention at the moment Ford are bricking Mach-E with updates, VW are only just about to start their first OTA update.

We do tend overlook what Tesla is doing well.
Maybe, but the other ones doesn’t keep harping on about how wonderful they bloody are.
I love my car, but Tesla’s attitude to their customers exudes arrogance and they’ll either change that or it’ll come and bite them in the arse. Hard. And not in a good way.
 
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I'm not so sure. The ideological argument makes no sense. On a journey, decide you want food or to take an unplanned break .... Just set a waypoint!

Once you've used them, why would you not want them?!

The stupid thing about waypoints is the car nav already supports them but only for supercharging stops en-route. It shouldn't even be difficult to add them.

My 2012 BMW didn't support audio over Bluetooth, only calling, steampunk era car.
I have no idea what BMW you had but mine have had it and multiple phone support going back that far. BMW had an option of enhanced bluetooth which added the extra features. Maybe that box wasn't ticked on your car, but its certainly been available for a long time
 
The stupid thing about waypoints is the car nav already supports them but only for supercharging stops en-route. It shouldn't even be difficult to add them.


I have no idea what BMW you had but mine have had it and multiple phone support going back that far. BMW had an option of enhanced bluetooth which added the extra features. Maybe that box wasn't ticked on your car, but its certainly been available for a long time

Its the 'ticked the box' part. BMW and many other makes have hugely complicated lists of options to nickle and dime you, often with inter-dependencies. Eg I didn't care about two phones connected so didn't tick 'enhanced bluetooth'. Which for some reason meant I couldn't enable carplay which I didn't find out until I picked the car up.

These higher end cars (VAG/BMW etc) often have 'better' tech but also often hide that behind layers of options/packs. Like Matrix lights (I only just got LED lights in my 4GC and that was only because they changed the spec to make them standard - and increased the price the equivalent of the option so..er)

I *love* the simplicity of Tesla - you just get everything, and there are a few things you can buy as 'DLC' later. Also makes buying easy because they just build a bunch and you don't need to be a bespoke order in a queue.

I also love the ease of buying because of that - no sitting in a dealership while 3 different sales/finance/random guys try and upsell you on a thousand things and you spend hours signing forms. Just in and out.

I *hate* the relative relative disconnect with post-sales service and lack of PDI. Just because its easy to buy and spec, doesn't mean I don't want you to make sure the car is in good condition when I pick it up, and look after it when things go wrong.

Overall a net positive so far for me.
 
Its the 'ticked the box' part. BMW and many other makes have hugely complicated lists of options to nickle and dime you, often with inter-dependencies. Eg I didn't care about two phones connected so didn't tick 'enhanced bluetooth'. Which for some reason meant I couldn't enable carplay which I didn't find out until I picked the car up.
That was certainly true although much less so now as things tend to be sold in "packs". It's not really much different to Tesla selling the parking aid as part of EAP or FSD, other than you can buy it late if you want to. But even then, Audi matric headlights can be enabled after purchase. I guess one persons ability to customise the car is another mans perception of having to pay extra for everything, I would ertainly prefer more options on Tesla like there used to be. More choices of interior, a choice of seat design with a much sportier version with more lateral support, more wheel options, a chrome or blacked out look, different colour headlining, rear privacy glass option from the factory to name but a few. Lots of people cusomise their cars because Tesla don't.
 
I *love* the simplicity of Tesla - you just get everything, and there are a few things you can buy as 'DLC' later. Also makes buying easy because they just build a bunch and you don't need to be a bespoke order in a queue.
This is very true, although done for logistics reasons whilst Tesla is bedding in. I wonder if they’ll stick with this business model.
Dealerships are indeed not going to be missed, IMHO.
 
Maybe, but the other ones doesn’t keep harping on about how wonderful they bloody are.
I love my car, but Tesla’s attitude to their customers exudes arrogance and they’ll either change that or it’ll come and bite them in the arse. Hard. And not in a good way.
Do they? Where? given there isn't a marketing department in Tesla?

I find Tesla very easy to deal with, simple, logical and transactional. If you are talking about their roadmap of future features, well, try getting a feature change on BMW, it's simply not possible. Some people say Tesla are arrogant because they don't use IR rain sensors, Matrix headlights, Mobileeye for cruise, that's just not what they do, and should have been pretty clear when you buy a car.
 
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OK, it's somewhat sad when someone leaves, but people come and go all the time. I should have just left it, but I started wondering. Does he want us to talk him out of leaving? Should I have wished him a safe trip? I didn't know. I really didn't know him and he probably doesn't know me either, so I just figured I'm one of the crowd. Hope he wanders back around to Tesla one of these days and re-evaluates the brand. There just aren't any other brands that focus entirely on electrics, and you really can't compare a gas car's upholstery, say, to a Tesla, because we're not talking upholstery, but power source. Not windows, not turn signals, not brakes. Power source. To dump on it because it's not quite up to Honda's level of manufacturing ability is missing the mark.

I have 66 solar panels and three power walls. My car pretty much runs on the power I collect. Nothing else out there is like Tesla. And I'm not moving on..

This is the sort of fanboy cr@p that really puts me off Tesla ownership. People say “you’re not buying a car, you’re buying a computer on wheels” or other such garbage. Bollocks. I’m buying a CAR that happens to be an EV. And at £60k I expect that car to be refined and comfortable, I expect the windscreen wipers to work at least as well as ones in a £20k hatch, I expect decent matrix headlights in line with the completion and I expect dynamic cruise control that doesn’t make me crap in my pants with violent phantom braking. None of which my M3P give me.

Yes, many aspects of the car are fantastic, but some people are clearly prepared to accept a high degree of mediocrity for the “privilege “ of owning a Tesla. I’m not one of them. Im moving on.
 
Do they? Where? given there isn't a marketing department in Tesla?

I find Tesla very easy to deal with, simple, logical and transactional. If you are talking about their roadmap of future features, well, try getting a feature change on BMW, it's simply not possible. Some people say Tesla are arrogant because they don't use IR rain sensors, Matrix headlights, Mobileeye for cruise, that's just not what they do, and should have been pretty clear when you buy a car.
Why is it “not what they do” then. Seems a weird thing to accept something that is substandard or worse than the competition just because it’s different
 
You should have just left it twice.

This is the UK sub forum so I'm at a bit of a loss why you even want to be on here commenting at all.

Really? While he may have been slightly obnoxious, why the hell shouldn't anybody from anywhere in the world feel free to post here?

Secondly, people's perceptions of what's important vary wildly. That diversity is expected and desirable, I don't know why people get so offended over that.

Personally (after having driven Merc, BMW, Audi, VW and Ford over the last 5 years), I don't find the noise at motorway speeds to be in any way unreasonable. The wipers are just fine. The interior trim is just fine (and the seats are wonderful). The Autopilot works mostly OK, and the only thing I see it doing worse consistently is the excessive phantom braking. I too hate the way that certain 'premium' (eurgh) marques nickel and dime every option, charging a premium for the same kit as their 'mainstream' brands.

There is no car manufacturer on the planet that gets everything correct. There is only one with the most efficient BEVs, the best battery tech and the world's best charging network. That's good enough for me at the moment. Everything else is subjective.
 
Really? While he may have been slightly obnoxious, why the hell shouldn't anybody from anywhere in the world feel free to post here?
I feel that a regional forum is for regional discussion. What else is it for? It’s not as if their post actually contributed anything to the thread, as you say, it was just obnoxious.