Losing enthusiasm for Model 3

[kablammyman]

i hear ya op. the tesla enthusiasm has waned for me. From the over zealous fan boys (esp at sites like elektrek), to the the delays, to sticker price, its hard to stay excited. Im a line waiter in the bay area...so what makes it a lil worse for people like me is seeing model 3s in the wild.

I realized this was an issue since currently, Instead of day dreaming about my future model 3, I day dream about my EV projects. Instead of investing money for a model 3 purchase, I invest to fund other projects and ventures. Every now and then some sort of model 3 anecdotal story about the driving experience or performance pops up, and I start to get excited again...until I realize that the car is a long ways away for me and they made a lot of what I feel are unnecessary compromises for a very expensive car.

I haven't cancelled yet since there are a lot of good merits to the car, so, like you, I'm playing the "wait and see" game, but there are a lot of EVs coming out that are also exciting. But each day that goes by without having a chance to get the car I want is a day that I drift farther away from the tesla religion.

 

[cwerdna]

I see maybe 1 Chevy volt for every 200 Model S.

Definitely NOT the case for my area. I'd say it's closer to even between the two, w/maybe slightly higher ratio of Volts.

I'm really starting to see lots of Bolts. One recent time I visited free public L2 charging (w/8 handles) and there weren't many cars. I was lone Leaf. There were 3 Bolts charging and maybe 1 more car. Bolt has begun to take the place of the once commonplace Leaf.

My work has quite a mix of vehicles but whereas the Leaf and Volt were dominant amongst plug-ins as there were about the only choices for awhile besides Teslas (and the FFE barely sold), now our internal registry at work shows lots of Teslas and e-Golfs, but still lots of Leafs and Volts w/a smattering of other vehicles. Bolt numbers are also growing.

 

[lapolak]

I'm surprised that one vent thread got so many support, encouragement from everyone But I feel that the OP neglected to mention that he's disappointed not really because it's delayed but because when it's delayed, the chance of getting the 10k credit is becoming more unrealistic as the clock is ticking. I know for sure that a lot of people counted on buying an M3 at 35k so that with 10k credit, they'd be paying only 25K for it; it'd be like buying an Accord or Camry. Because he said so himself, that he's not in critical need of a third car right now. So, the delay itself isn't enough to change one's mind. It's losing the tax credit that make people want to cancel.

The talk of incentives is also a bit misguided to many that are looking at the Model 3 in terms of it being affordable. The federal $7,500 tax credit is a NON-REFUNDABLE tax credit and not a rebate. This means that you can only get the full $7,500 credit if you will owe $7,500 in taxes to the feds. If you owe $3,000.00 in taxes, you can only get up to $3,000. If you owe nothing, and get a refund... then you don't get anything from the $7,500. It is NOT a refundable credit, which means you would get a tax refund for any remainder of the credit (i.e. if you owe $1,000, you would get $6,500 refunded to you).

Some state incentives are rebates. California's $2,500 is a rebate, meaning California sends you a check for $2,500 that you can cash.

This is important because Tesla heavily markets the tax incentive. Most people that can afford the Model S likely pay more than $7,500 in tax credits, but the Model 3 is supposed to be attainable by the Average / Above Average Joe and many of Joes expect to get the tax credit but aren't aware they wont get the max credit or any of it.

This is assuming the credit is available by then anyway.

 

[PatrickCH4313]

First look at the Model 3 in Europe at the international Autoshow in Geneva. The car has a plate from Michigan !

 

[jsrawa]

The talk of incentives is also a bit misguided to many that are looking at the Model 3 in terms of it being affordable. The federal $7,500 tax credit is a NON-REFUNDABLE tax credit and not a rebate. This means that you can only get the full $7,500 credit if you will owe $7,500 in taxes to the feds. If you owe $3,000.00 in taxes, you can only get up to $3,000. If you owe nothing, and get a refund... then you don't get anything from the $7,500. It is NOT a refundable credit, which means you would get a tax refund for any remainder of the credit (i.e. if you owe $1,000, you would get $6,500 refunded to you).

Some state incentives are rebates. California's $2,500 is a rebate, meaning California sends you a check for $2,500 that you can cash.

This is important because Tesla heavily markets the tax incentive. Most people that can afford the Model S likely pay more than $7,500 in tax credits, but the Model 3 is supposed to be attainable by the Average / Above Average Joe and many of Joes expect to get the tax credit but aren't aware they wont get the max credit or any of it.

This is assuming the credit is available by then anyway.

I get what you were trying to illustrate here but most people have some tax liability and will realize some advantage from the credit, those that have over $7500 of tax liability obviously benefit the most.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

It all comes down to personal choice. Nobody can say anything to justify how you feel or what you decide. I think you have been around long enough to have read all the reviews, understand what the car can and can not do. The decision is ultimately up to you and it is nobody's place to say you are right or wrong in whatever you decide.

I will say that the opportunity I had to experience the car first hand made a BIG difference in my willingness to wait it out. People can say what their impressions are both positive and negative but they are meaningless until you have experienced the car for yourself. I would strongly suggest taking the opportunity to go see the car in person. It may not make a difference to you but at least you can be confident that whatever your decision is, it was based on your personal observations, not a bunch of reviews.

Just my $.02.

Dan

 

[Flekoun]

Did not read whole discussion. But problem here is that OP do not need TM3. He claims to use his ICE for long trips. Then you can can buy whatever EV you want, even Leaf is sufficient enough.
However I want TM3 as the ONLY car and want to road-trip through Europe with it ( 5000km trips). Therefore there no NOTHING comparable to TM3/S/X. No charging infrastructure like SCH and autonomy functions are also crucial on long trips. Show me ONE car that can do roadtrips the same way TM3/X/S can and I will buy it. It does not exists. However in your situations as you do not need TM3 at all, it is valid to not care about it anymore and buy Kona or Leaf or whatever EV out there is.

 

[internalaudit]

My enthusiasm hasn't waned because I knew a TM3 would have been the most expensive car I would have financed and I'm usually aversed to spending a significant amount of money (losing money in the stock market is another thing lol).

Then, other car makers announced the arrival of their offerings. I mainly interested in the BMW offerings in 2020 and maybe the Infiniti in 2021. I'm also counting on Lexus for one or two models. I definitely want AWD and at least 200 miles of driving in cold winter.

I'm still not too convinced that the other car makers are not only doing this for compliance reasons so I'm not cancelling the TM3 reservation until such time I decide to go with a competing BEV. Maybe this time in 2019 or 20, the M3 will be laden with very few issues, the ESA details will be out and EM will have announced the Right to Repair for Tesla's post-warranty. I can live with one 15 display (another reason why I am waiting for other offerings) if all these other concerns are addressed. I don't tend to switch cars very often because depreciation and repair post-warranty are more of a killer than gasoline consumption.

I also hate this paying full MSRP and going for a lottery draw when purchasing a BEV when dealership allocations are too minute so at least my reservation gives me a wild/ace card.

 

[N5329K]

It all comes down to personal choice. Nobody can say anything to justify how you feel or what you decide. I think you have been around long enough to have read all the reviews, understand what the car can and can not do. The decision is ultimately up to you and it is nobody's place to say you are right or wrong in whatever you decide.

I will say that the opportunity I had to experience the car first hand made a BIG difference in my willingness to wait it out. People can say what their impressions are both positive and negative but they are meaningless until you have experienced the car for yourself. I would strongly suggest taking the opportunity to go see the car in person. It may not make a difference to you but at least you can be confident that whatever your decision is, it was based on your personal observations, not a bunch of reviews.

Just my $.02.

Dan

This is true. I was on the edge of canceling before seeing/driving the car. Once I had the chance to spend time with it, I really was favorbly impressed and stepped back from that edge. Then the email came pushing base model production out to early 2019. Guessing that "early 2019" could mean almost anything, from January to June to never, well, that was enough for me.
It is a nice car to sit in and drive. Just with quirks and details and "issues" that may or may not be important to you.
Robin

 

[Hank101]

I had to cancel and buy a car, my 2013 Volt with 170,000 miles was developing issues - time ran out. Bought a new 2018 Volt, no regrets. The M3 "cool-aid" wore off immediately after - what was I thinking, waiting for a overpriced car, without options I truly wanted, and with full potential for all sorts of "infant mortality issues" due to being an alpha production car/production process?

I will wait until there are more realistic electric car options, and resume my search in 2020, or possibly later.

I canceled online, received my refund within 4 days.

Good luck to all.

 

[Mazari4life]

I was one of the many who waited to make a deposit the day before and still waiting. I am fine with waiting to fix all the little issues. I am afraid I will be very disappointed when it’s my turn to configure, I won’t even have the option to get the car I made a deposit for. I will gladly pay for long range and premium.. but not having the options to “configure “ the interior color. That sucks.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I had to cancel and buy a car, my 2013 Volt with 170,000 miles was developing issues - time ran out. Bought a new 2018 Volt, no regrets. The M3 "cool-aid" wore off immediately after - what was I thinking, waiting for a overpriced car, without options I truly wanted, and with full potential for all sorts of "infant mortality issues" due to being an alpha production car/production process?

I will wait until there are more realistic electric car options, and resume my search in 2020, or possibly later.

I canceled online, received my refund within 4 days.

Good luck to all.

Not sure what you mean by "realistic electric car options" but whatever is best for you. Good luck with your new Volt. I have loved my generation 1 Volt for the last 5 years. Passed it on to my college age son. Great car.

Dan

 

[bro1999]

battery charging and temperature management is a big factor for me. Tesla does it well. Given that EVs from other manufacturers are either produced for compliance, or to address the Tesla factor, I don't trust that they're as diligent with battery management. The end result is going to be a shorter battery lifespan.




yeah, sucks when they have no access to enough batteries to make EVs in volume. Gonna be a common theme for all these so called tesla killers.

GM doesn't sell the Bolt/Ampera-e in Europe because GM WITHDREW FROM EUROPE. It was a complete money loser. Now it is simply fulfilling contracts signed with PSA till those expire. Not selling Bolts in Europe has nothing to do with battery supply.
If battery supply was any kind of issue, why did GM just announce it is expanding Bolt production? Lol

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

I had to cancel and buy a car, my 2013 Volt with 170,000 miles was developing issues - time ran out. Bought a new 2018 Volt, no regrets. The M3 "cool-aid" wore off immediately after - what was I thinking, waiting for a overpriced car, without options I truly wanted, and with full potential for all sorts of "infant mortality issues" due to being an alpha production car/production process?

I will wait until there are more realistic electric car options, and resume my search in 2020, or possibly later.

I canceled online, received my refund within 4 days.

Good luck to all.

This is what we call “rationalization”, where we make a big decision and our brain fills in the blanks to make us more comfortable with it. Not saying it’s a bad thing, we definitely all do this so we don’t live our lives in constant anxiety and second guessing, but I would hesitate to take these sorts of posts as a guide for what to do with your own reservations!

Here’s a link for anybody interested in this effect: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3150852/

It’s actually pretty cool science!

Edit: Moral of the story is you’ll probably end up happy with your decision, just make one and stick with it!

 

[Phrixotrichus]

My enthusiasm was gone the moment it became apparent that Elon`s promises for EAP/FSD were once again not to be taken seriously and that a decent m3 easily gets into BMW 5 / E-Class pricerange....while offering considerably less luxury/quality.

At this point I´ll just throw my money in the direction of the first manufacturer that offers me lvl 4+ autonomy, I´d even swallow the ICE pill if necessary.

 

[emlombardo]

I was considering a used Model S or a new Chevy Bolt but that went out the window the second I was able to configure. Now I'm just glad I didn't cave and buy something that I didn't really want just to avoid waiting.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

My enthusiasm was gone the moment it became apparent that Elon`s promises for EAP/FSD were once again not to be taken seriously and that a decent m3 easily gets into BMW 5 / E-Class pricerange....while offering considerably less luxury/quality.

At this point I´ll just throw my money in the direction of the first manufacturer that offers me lvl 4+ autonomy, I´d even swallow the ICE pill if necessary.

Oh Lord...another "promise broken" post. I won't beat the already long dead horse but let's just try to differentiate between a promise and an opinion. For the record...and I could certainly be wrong, Elon has never promised anything. He has given his opinion based on the facts available to him at the time the opinion was stated. I have never taken any of them to be anything more than educated estimates prone to the effects of previously unknown factors.

Dan

 

[bro1999]

Oh Lord...another "promise broken" post. I won't beat the already long dead horse but let's just try to differentiate between a promise and an opinion. For the record...and I could certainly be wrong, Elon has never promised anything. He has given his opinion based on the facts available to him at the time the opinion was stated. I have never taken any of them to be anything more than educated estimates prone to the effects of previously unknown factors.

Dan

Elon certainly did nothing to squash immense expectations of a $35k Model 3 being available in 2017, that's for sure.

 

[internalaudit]

My enthusiasm was gone the moment it became apparent that Elon`s promises for EAP/FSD were once again not to be taken seriously and that a decent m3 easily gets into BMW 5 / E-Class pricerange....while offering considerably less luxury/quality.

At this point I´ll just throw my money in the direction of the first manufacturer that offers me lvl 4+ autonomy, I´d even swallow the ICE pill if necessary.

Is it the 4 Series Gran Coupe or a totally new i4 or both that will come out with the iX3 in 2020?
BMW i4: The name of the next i-model

I, for one, don't care about cross country driving so SCN was never a competitive advantage for Tesla in my book.

I've got to thank China and VW dieselgate for accelerating BEV adoption by car makers.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Elon certainly did nothing to squash immense expectations of a $35k Model 3 being available in 2017, that's for sure.

I must have missed the Tweet where he promised that there would be a $35,000 Model 3 available in 2017. Maybe it was in a press release? Maybe an interview question? Guess I missed it.

Dan