Kraken
Member
Not sure if those calculations are good enough. Wind variations aren't that rare, especially in places with hillier terrain.
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Love my Tesla, but almost got stranded because of way out of whack mileage estimate
- Thread starter carrerascott
- Start date
Beavis
Model S Signature 991
I don't want to read 9 pages to see if anyone has suggested this but I have the Wundermap app on my phone. I started using it when planning my bike rides. It shows current wind speeds and direction. Forgive me if this has already been suggested.
Captain Obvious would also say that the estimated miles is based on average conditions. The range killers are wind, elevation, and wet road (and cold if you don't preheat). They take a huge toll. Drafting helps a lot, from 20% to 30%. If you are in trouble, find an 18 wheeler to follow. We don't notice this when driving an ICE but you certainly notice it in your legs when riding a bike. Always use the 2/3 rule, especially in bad conditions, and have a contingency plan.
Captain Obvious would also say that the estimated miles is based on average conditions. The range killers are wind, elevation, and wet road (and cold if you don't preheat). They take a huge toll. Drafting helps a lot, from 20% to 30%. If you are in trouble, find an 18 wheeler to follow. We don't notice this when driving an ICE but you certainly notice it in your legs when riding a bike. Always use the 2/3 rule, especially in bad conditions, and have a contingency plan.
Okay, I've been reading this forum off and on for a while. I'm a huge Tesla fan, and hopeful future Tesla owner ... but I have to admit this thread is scaring me a little.
I live in Austin. A key requirement for me is to be able to hop in the car and drive the 3 hours to Dallas or Houston (we have family in both cities), with little planning, without stopping, like pretty much any gasoline car I've ever driven. I thought that with the 85 kWh battery the Model S was capable of that (as long as I max charged before leaving, of course).
The comments in this thread seem to indicate that I would have white knuckles on that entire drive, I would need to drive at low speed robbing me of half the joy of owning the Model S in the first place, I would need to limit the use of the heat or A/C (in Texas? you crazy?) ... and even then, I may not make it if it is raining or windy. To say nothing of the fact that the car won't be of much use to me when I get there, because the battery will be bone dry and can't be recharged effectively via 110V (neither of my relatives in those cities have 220V in their garages) ... so at some point during the weekend I'd need to leave my family to cool my heels at a public charger for a few hours to get enough energy for the trip back home. None of these are compromises I would need to make on pretty much any ICE car.
I know Tesla and Tesla fans love to talk about the road tripping capabilities of the car, but I'm just not seeing it. Am I missing something?
I live in Austin. A key requirement for me is to be able to hop in the car and drive the 3 hours to Dallas or Houston (we have family in both cities), with little planning, without stopping, like pretty much any gasoline car I've ever driven. I thought that with the 85 kWh battery the Model S was capable of that (as long as I max charged before leaving, of course).
The comments in this thread seem to indicate that I would have white knuckles on that entire drive, I would need to drive at low speed robbing me of half the joy of owning the Model S in the first place, I would need to limit the use of the heat or A/C (in Texas? you crazy?) ... and even then, I may not make it if it is raining or windy. To say nothing of the fact that the car won't be of much use to me when I get there, because the battery will be bone dry and can't be recharged effectively via 110V (neither of my relatives in those cities have 220V in their garages) ... so at some point during the weekend I'd need to leave my family to cool my heels at a public charger for a few hours to get enough energy for the trip back home. None of these are compromises I would need to make on pretty much any ICE car.
I know Tesla and Tesla fans love to talk about the road tripping capabilities of the car, but I'm just not seeing it. Am I missing something?
GlennAlanBerry
Member
@CricTic Google maps shows that it is only 166 miles from Austin to Houston, so an 85 can easily make it one-way without a charge. There is a Tesla SuperCharger in Columbus, TX., so you could stop there on both legs of the trip, and charge for free, very quickly. I don't think you have much to worry about there. No cooling your heels at a public charger...
It looks like there are two Tesla Supercharger stations between Austin and Dallas, so that should be a very easy trip too. So yes, you are missing something.
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
AC does not have much effect on range. Running the heat has an effect, but the seat heaters do not have much effect.
It looks like there are two Tesla Supercharger stations between Austin and Dallas, so that should be a very easy trip too. So yes, you are missing something.
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
AC does not have much effect on range. Running the heat has an effect, but the seat heaters do not have much effect.
I'd like someone from TX to comment on your ability to go city to city.
I routinely drive to Philadelphia (300 miles) with a supercharge in southern CT. I've also taken several longer trips both winter and summer including a single day 570 mile trip in the summer.
I charge overnight at a public charger or Nissan dealer in Philly.
I have traveled in sub 10F weather (had to slow down and hit up an extra supercharger) and in an ice storm (no range issues since I was forced to drive slowly). I've never had a "white knuckle" drive. I should say that on the way home I seems to not want to supercharge long enough though. (It is colder the farther north you drive and there are hills...) On my most recent trip I took a 20 or 30 mile detour due to traffic and paid the price by slowing down considerably until it was a no-brainer that I would get home at speed. I could have avoided this mess by spending a bit more time at the supercharger.
I share your views about buying a supercar and driving it slowly.
I would need to go to southeast suburban Houston (the far side) so it's closer to 200 mi. Dallas is the same, about 200 mi. And the whole reasoning behind considering the larger battery was that I wouldn't have to stop, which is something I do not have to do today in my ICE ...
Minor point - there is only one supercharger on the Austin - Dallas route, outside Waco. It would actually be a lot more useful, I think, to have the chargers right outside Dallas or Austin. That way, I could grab a full charge right before arriving, and have enough charge to get through the weekend without having to worry about finding an outlet. But, that would require charging twice ... once on the way in, and once on the way out. In contrast, I could probably fill my Q5 before leaving Austin, and not have to get gas again until the following week after I've returned.
Good to know the A/C doesn't hit the battery as much, that is somewhat of a consolation. But it's really starting to seem like this car would be a commuter vehicle only.
Minor point - there is only one supercharger on the Austin - Dallas route, outside Waco. It would actually be a lot more useful, I think, to have the chargers right outside Dallas or Austin. That way, I could grab a full charge right before arriving, and have enough charge to get through the weekend without having to worry about finding an outlet. But, that would require charging twice ... once on the way in, and once on the way out. In contrast, I could probably fill my Q5 before leaving Austin, and not have to get gas again until the following week after I've returned.
Good to know the A/C doesn't hit the battery as much, that is somewhat of a consolation. But it's really starting to seem like this car would be a commuter vehicle only.
GlennAlanBerry
Member
How often are you actually going to make this trip? I think you are reaching quite a bit to call an 85 "a commuter vehicle only". Your area of Texas is quite well-served by Tesla SuperChargers. It would be different if you were in central Mississippi, with no SuperChargers on the roadmap for a while.
Depending on the weather, elevation change, and how you drive, it is quite possible to get 265 miles of range from an 85. You will get less in some conditions, but I think 200 miles is very easily achievable under most conditions without any white knuckles involved. You do have Tesla SuperChargers available for both of your stated trip routes, so you should be able to figure out a way to make it work, if you actually want to. If you are just trying to talk yourself out of it, then probably not.
The Tesla Model S does not have the range of an Audi Q5, but it is a lot more fun to drive.
Depending on the weather, elevation change, and how you drive, it is quite possible to get 265 miles of range from an 85. You will get less in some conditions, but I think 200 miles is very easily achievable under most conditions without any white knuckles involved. You do have Tesla SuperChargers available for both of your stated trip routes, so you should be able to figure out a way to make it work, if you actually want to. If you are just trying to talk yourself out of it, then probably not.
The Tesla Model S does not have the range of an Audi Q5, but it is a lot more fun to drive.
Love my Tesla, but almost got stranded because of way out of whack mileage es...
In Texas you would have a very hard time getting under 200 miles of range. From Austin if you thought you might be in trouble then that means at most a 10 min stop at a Supercharger for a small boost.
I agree I would hardly call the 85kWh Model S a commuter vehicle. You would need a charge at your destination so if driving to Dallas, driving around the entire weekend and driving back without ever charging is your goal then you are correct the Model S wouldn't work for you. If you have time to stop at a Supercharger, have a place to plug in over the weekend (even a 110 V outlet) and can stop briefly on the way back it will work.
Also consider fuel costs of driving 400 miles vs Model S.
In Texas you would have a very hard time getting under 200 miles of range. From Austin if you thought you might be in trouble then that means at most a 10 min stop at a Supercharger for a small boost.
I agree I would hardly call the 85kWh Model S a commuter vehicle. You would need a charge at your destination so if driving to Dallas, driving around the entire weekend and driving back without ever charging is your goal then you are correct the Model S wouldn't work for you. If you have time to stop at a Supercharger, have a place to plug in over the weekend (even a 110 V outlet) and can stop briefly on the way back it will work.
Also consider fuel costs of driving 400 miles vs Model S.
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Thanks for the feedback so far. Trust me, I am not trying to talk myself out of anything. I agree, a perspective from someone in Texas would be useful.
On a trip of 300 miles or more, I think I'd be more amenable to stopping to charge, since it's likely we'd need to stop for bio breaks anyway. So in those cases, I totally get where you guys are coming from. But for a 200 mile trip, I'm very accustomed to just doing it in one shot. The 265 mi rated range on the 85 kWh battery led me to believe this was easily achievable under most driving conditions (including wind, rain, reasonable speeds over 65 mph, etc.) But I just visited the Tesla range calculator, and at 70 mph with the heat running in 32 degree conditions (not uncommon in Texas, despite what you may have heard), the car will only do 204 miles. This was a surprise to me, and given that I have another car in my garage that can make the distance there and back easily, I'm wondering why I would ever take the Tesla on an inter-city trip (hence my "commuter vehicle only" remark, which in retrospect was probably a little harsher than I intended).
To be clear, I'm not counting the Tesla out ... I'm just wondering if the smaller battery would be a smarter purchase for me since I may never need the extra range to go inter-city. More than anything, I'm just surprised that going more than 200 miles with the larger battery isn't always possible (barring obvious drainers like drag racing, hilly terrain etc.).
@dsm363 You raise an interesting point on fuel costs. I would probably save about $70 per trip on fuel if I drove the Tesla. So I guess I have to ask myself if the extra 30 minutes lost (I would not stop for just 10, I'd want to tank up to have spare electrons for the weekend) is worth the $ savings.
On a trip of 300 miles or more, I think I'd be more amenable to stopping to charge, since it's likely we'd need to stop for bio breaks anyway. So in those cases, I totally get where you guys are coming from. But for a 200 mile trip, I'm very accustomed to just doing it in one shot. The 265 mi rated range on the 85 kWh battery led me to believe this was easily achievable under most driving conditions (including wind, rain, reasonable speeds over 65 mph, etc.) But I just visited the Tesla range calculator, and at 70 mph with the heat running in 32 degree conditions (not uncommon in Texas, despite what you may have heard), the car will only do 204 miles. This was a surprise to me, and given that I have another car in my garage that can make the distance there and back easily, I'm wondering why I would ever take the Tesla on an inter-city trip (hence my "commuter vehicle only" remark, which in retrospect was probably a little harsher than I intended).
To be clear, I'm not counting the Tesla out ... I'm just wondering if the smaller battery would be a smarter purchase for me since I may never need the extra range to go inter-city. More than anything, I'm just surprised that going more than 200 miles with the larger battery isn't always possible (barring obvious drainers like drag racing, hilly terrain etc.).
@dsm363 You raise an interesting point on fuel costs. I would probably save about $70 per trip on fuel if I drove the Tesla. So I guess I have to ask myself if the extra 30 minutes lost (I would not stop for just 10, I'd want to tank up to have spare electrons for the weekend) is worth the $ savings.
One caution about Wundermap—you need to know the elevation of the weather station; stations very near each other on the map can show very different wind stats because one is on top of a hill/building and the other is down by a river/field/road. The current iPhone app is reporting the wrong elevation information (they know this and plan a fix)
3/22 Noticed today that the elevation is correct in WunderMap, at least my location
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As long as your travel window isn't so tight that you can't afford 30 min I think you'll find its a rather nice way to travel. You're used to powering through the 200 mile trip because what else could one do but hang out at a gas station? If you arrange decent charging when you arrive in Dallas you can either drive straight through without stopping or just drive 80 min or so, stop for 20-30 min and finish the trip and charge overnight.
After people get their Model S, they usually drive it more than they originally planned. If you can afford the 85 you will not regret getting it.
Time spent charging does not have to be "wasted time" either. Go for a short walk, read a book, surf the internet, eat a meal, shop, sightsee, etc. It can be a much better experience than filling up with gas.
GSP
What you're missing is the Supercharger in Waco (for A to D). I've made the trip and what you do is charge at Waco, I have about 160 miles left when I go home, which would be plenty to do any running around I need to do. It's really the same as a gas car, just the locations are different. In a gas car you fill up in Austin, drive, and then fill up again in Dallas. In the Tesla you don't fill up in Austin, you just fill up in Waco, and then fill up again on the way back. No fuss, no muss.
franklandfield
Member
Did you use the heater!? Maybe have Tesla service double check everything!? Although, the car will tell you if something is ever wrong. I experience nothing similar. But it is never 30° here! Good luck. 
HOORAY for superchargers!?
HOORAY for superchargers!?I am aware of the supercharger in Waco, as I posted earlier. The goal was to avoid stopping along the way. However, you're right ... I failed to take into account that I don't have to bother with filling up before I leave as long as I remember to max-charge the night before. And you're right ... many ICEs would require me to fill up in Dallas or Houston in order to make the trip home, so you could argue equivalency with a supercharger stop.
This is the best answer to my question I've seen so far. Thank you!
Did you check your wheel wells?
In snow with 32 degree temperatures, I found that the sticky, wet snow turned into gunk which filled up the wheel wells. This was brutal for my mileage.
Though actually, your mileage wasn't nearly bad enough for this to be your problem... I have been saying that 180 miles is the safe cold-weather range, barring wheel-well gunk.
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Apart from the Waco supercharger, I'd like to suggest that you go ahead and pay to have your relatives install 220V in their garages. It'll make you more comfortable.
If the house's main panel is located pretty close to the garage, this is NOT an expensive electrician job, and it will increase the value of their houses. If you're considering buying a car as expensive as the model S, you can spring for the couple of hundred dollars to put in a NEMA 14-50 in your relatives' house.
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